Are all high-level maths students intuitive geniuses, or do you think some of them just studied their asses off?

Nah you misread, there were several of us there and we got bored so we started doing riddles and puzzles, it wasn't a game of "how do I measure up next to the EP guy". I dunno I was just surprised is all, I expected him to dazzle us with his elegant proofs. So I thought maybe these guys aren't so different after all.
Anyways, personally I've never studied so while I might be moderately gifted I don't think I'll ever do anything (I'm 20 already). If only my parents hadn't been Veeky Forumsfags.

As for Tao, I think it's pretty easy for him to write that, he doesn't know how difficult it is to be a brainlet.

Jesus Christ, OP.
So basically you're telling me that if you don't get into the good school, you're basically fucked? That's fucked up.

At least the shitty state uni in the US can get some job somewhere, but in France if you go to a shit uni you are basically wasting your money.

Okay, I'm reaching my limits on advising, then work your ass up on your uni, get HUGE high grades to get a 4.0 U.S. GPA and move your ass out of France and live in the U.S. or something, since you know english already.

Oh and on the school thing, I guess it happens all the time, you will always find that one average dude on a place full of smart and/or rich people, so instead of being mad then try to use your angerey to climb up the ladder to success.

Hell, even get a mothefucking Fields Medal desu.

Oh and sorry for the shitty spacing.

>in France if you go to a shit uni you are basically wasting your money
heh. at least uni is free here.
but yeah I'm considering getting to work and I'll see where it takes me, it's probably about time and I'll regret not trying.

That's alright lad, proper post, except the fields memedal part

>Nah bro, just be yourself, just work real hard, you don't need to be a genius!
>Here, check this child genius' opinion on the matter, that should help you.
You might as well have used von Neumann's quote about maths being hard to understand.

Comparing yourself to other people is worrisome, regardless. That you are now trying to rationalize it indicates to me that you know that.
>maybe these guys aren't so different after all
Yeah, pretty much. See >I'm 20 already
Meaningless. Ignore the "if you haven't solved the geometrization conjecture by the time you left your crib you can't into mathematics" memes
>dismissing Tao for dumb reasons
He's a well respected expert who has worked with countless people in the field for many years. If he doesn't know what he's talking about, I don't know who is.

That's what I thought, but I find it sad that here people who crammed for two years are held in higher esteem than PhD students who are passionate and actually spend time conducting their own research to try and understand what the formulas and ideas mean.
Basically PhD students, even in muh hard sciences, are seen as useless bums who weren't smart enough to get inside a school, and who are going to spend their whole lives in some shit uni doing irrelevant research.

still, they mean a great deal regarding one's ability to come up with an original idea and (pardon my bullshit business school lingo) "think outside the box".
And that's what most people (except maybe engineers) would say math is about.

A salty person using a /r9k/ dogwhistle. Kind of unsurprising.

I don't understand your system. You're telling me you have two parallel options of either going to uni (shit in France apparently) or going to a school (impossible as fuck)? Am I getting it right?

A self-important person belittling me for exagerating instead of addressing my point. Kind of unsurprising.

Yep. Basically at the end of high school, (if you took the scientific "path", that is, dunno about the rest) you can either:
-go to uni and do a licence, mastère then doctorat (bachelor's, master's and PhD), which aren't held in very high regard except for less than a handful prestigious universities with sort of a special status

or

-go to a CPGE (Physics or Maths oriented) after which you attempt the entrance exams, the goal of which is to get the best ranking possible. every week you have oral exams were they ask you to memorize proofs and formulas without always necessarily explaining them, which encourages a trend of learning without understanding.
and anyways you have no choice, a CPGE is almost the equivalent of completing a Maths AND a Physics bachelor's, within two years. as I said some people get up at 5 and go to bed a 11, spend their whole mornings and evenings doing standard exercises and training hand speed. it's pretty sad.

And after that only about 10% of those people get a good school. There's engineering (Polytechnique then Centrale or Mines) and research-oriented schools called the Ecole Normales Supérieures (typically that's were actually gifted people go).

You can still get inside a school after uni if you have a bachelors but each school only accepts like 15 uni students each year.

TL;DR: our system is fucked up, never come to France.

ecole normale superieure > L'x

Yes that's why I believe it's vital to only get into academia if you truly enjoy mathematics. Any mathematician who gets a phd and dedicates himself to academia is almost surely (some tehoritcal mathematicians earn a lot of money too of course) sacrificing a much more economically successful career in some applied field.

About the puzzles being good predictors I reiterate my point that mathematical talent is very specific, even within stricter categories like being good at "thinking outside the box" as you say. I suppose any excellent mathematician will be good at those, but I know people whose ability for original thought seems completely restricted to very abstract reasoning.

Ben oui mais là pour le coup le type était à l'X. Et puis ENS c'est avéré que c'est 145 de QI
M I N I M U M
I
N
I
M
U
M
(pour cachan bien sûr, Ulm c'est non mesurable)

>go to a CPGE (Physics or Maths oriented) after which you attempt the entrance exams, the goal of which is to get the best ranking possible. every week you have oral exams were they ask you to memorize proofs and formulas without always necessarily explaining them, which encourages a trend of learning without understanding.
>and anyways you have no choice, a CPGE is almost the equivalent of completing a Maths AND a Physics bachelor's, within two years. as I said some people get up at 5 and go to bed a 11, spend their whole mornings and evenings doing standard exercises and training hand speed. it's pretty sad.
You talk very bitterly about the CPGE. Could it be the case that you opinion is tainted by sour grapes?

I've more than once heard in Veeky Forums people talking very highly of Ulm. What makes it so special?

Well as I mentioned they only take the best, and their entrance exam is already quite hard. But even then there are very few places available.
They are research oriented and are said to have a better theoretical level than any other school (which is probably true). Actually that's also true, to a lesser extent, of the other ENS' (Lyon, Cachan and Rennes).
That's were most french researchers come from. Used to be they came from polytechnique but nowadays that's just for douches who waste their talent by going into finance for the cuckbuxx. I mean don't get me wrong, they're good, they have to be, but maths are just a means to an end for them, which I find kind of sad.

See above for why I said about CPGEs being "sad". We have made maths into a competition, almost akin to a speed writing contest at times.
And yeah I'm pretty mad I didn't complete my CPGE but I couldn't have done anything of value anyways, as I'm completely unable to grasp the basic principles of physics.
And the schools bad CPGE students (remaining 90%) get are mostly garbage no employer even knows about, so you don't even get the employability thing. Granted, you still have a degree that says engineer, but honestly most people don't think it's worth it and I understand them. I'd even go as far as saying they would have been better in uni t b h.

fuck I just noticed I write "were" instead of "where" a lot. time for bed.

University admissions isn't about intelligence or demonstrable talent. If it was, then (((Your favorite prestigious Massachusetts engineering school))) wouldn't have a 50/50 gender ratio every year, even when almost twice as many males apply as females.

It would be cheaper if you just got a job and learned to be a street sweeper

which uni?

Honestly, I think part of it is how interested you are in the esoteric results. Part of it is how much exposure to cleverness you've had (you have to read a lot). But it isn't the quantity of reading so much as the quality ("Study the masters, not their pupils"). But most of it is getting enough experience from working problems and knowing what methods tend to work for certain problems and what methods tend to fail for certain problems (thousands of ways to not make a lightbulb). Be interested in what you are doing, find your niche, put in the repetitions to get stronger.

Is it true, user? I have never been interested in such statistics so I never bothered to find such information. This sounds edgy but presumably true considering the world we live in. Could you tell whether it is a joke or something?

Tours. I was hoping to move to a better city with a better maths uni but this shit is complicated af.

really? seems like americans get the short end of the cuck stick. As I said, it's not the same here, you get in based on your ranking.
Polytechnique is like 20% women, tops.

I still think they should include problems with "elegant" answers that are somewhat hard to come up with, you know the type. But I think that would be too close to an IQ test and people are scared of that over here. It's a literal taboo in France.

>I still think they should include problems with "elegant" answers that are somewhat hard to come up with, you know the type. But I think that would be too close to an IQ test and people are scared of that over here. It's a literal taboo in France.

Actually I just looked it up and as I suspected, whenever it's brought up, butthurt brainlets everywhere start ranting about elitisim.
It's a paradox, really, these guys claim to have the best schools in the world, with the smartest people, yet they're afraid to put that to the test.
I mean it's already elitist, but it selects people based on criteria that mean fucking nothing (fucking hand speed lmao).

>we had sort of a contest since none of us has actually had sex ever
So did you win with the homosex or not?

OP, you need to deliver the details

Let me just say this.

People who are actually great don't need a name brand school to define their accomplishments.

Does anyone really give a shit what school Galois went to? No, it has to do with what you actually achieve in your chosen discipline.

Getting into a great school is nice, and their are some brilliant people there; but at least in America most people just use "brand name" as an ego boost.

French education sounds even more fucked than american desu .

Doesn't really apply because Galois went to ENS, which was not that prestigious at the time. He did fail the Polytechnique exam, twice.
But yeah I get what you're saying. The only reason I would've liked to get into a school was to be reassured as to where I stood talent-wise, i.e. ego

I never understood American education either desu, with your SATs and such. What's up with that.

>Honestly, I think part of it is how interested you are in the esoteric results
maybe. some people aren't interested in some fields and some types of problems. for instance long, drawn out calculus problems bore the shit out of me, I don't even try doing them correctly. That and weirdly enough I'm not gifted at anything calculus. (by calculus I mean integrals, differential equations, etc, hope that's the right word)

Do you really believe you get any kind of opportunity coming from a garbage uni ? Great people are known because they were given an opportunity to shine. This happens less and less often nowadays. Who the hell cares about maths. We have smartphones.

I think what he's saying is, if you're gifted you'll be good regardless of your uni. You might not be held in very high regard but that's not important.

Did you do the french bac? I'm guessing you took S?
Also, IQ means jack, trust me
To answer your question, studying will always get you further at the end of the day, but I believe that the ability to solve certain logic puzzles that involve critical thinking is innate, which is probably why your friend missed out
Don't congratulate yourself just yet though, because the guy who studies his ass off will always top the guy who reaps his innate abilities to an absolute minimum

>135 iq
>brainlet
fuck you faggot
kill yourself

yeah I know that. actually I'm 100% certain that I would never, ever be able to even think about going to polytechnique, because I'm not trained and knowledgeable enough, and I never used my abilities, to the point that I can feel them fading away.
But let's be honest, IQ does mean something. It's not a perfect predictor, there isn't a 100% correlation but come on. You'll never see a math genius with a low IQ.
(I'm saying usually good at maths => high IQ, which in turn woud mean one is good at solving some sort of puzzle. but then it's hard to define who's good at maths and who's done a fuckton different exercises, especially in our system)

literally anyone I know who finished high school claims to have 130-140. Dunno why they'd lie, and if they did dunno why they'd all pick the same range.

whoops, forgot to answer to the first question.
yeah of course I took the baccalauréat scientifique.

The thing is that the way we define intelligence is really quite loose and vague
If anything, calling someone "smart" or "intelligent" is just a run of the mill comment on their character, rather than being anything with a neurological or psychological foothold
IQ is a good predictor of conscientiousness, it's highly correlated with success rates in this academia driven society
Hear that? Academia. Returning to your previous point, the reason that you never see a maths genius with a low IQ is because IQ tests are oriented towards quantitative and verbal-linguistic skill sets, which ties in to why people who score high on IQ tests have a much higher potential for success.
The Flynn effect actually tackles this issue in a roundabout way: people aren't getting smarter, IQ tests are just geared for educated peoples (brookings.edu/articles/heritability-estimates-versus-large-environmental-effects-the-iq-paradox-resolved/ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect)
I could go on for a while, but..
You already have an edge, and so help me god if you don't take advantage of that.. You doubt that you'll ever get into this lycée, but the reality is that you'll be able to advance much faster than someone lacking in quantitative skills IF you decide to study
Don't forget that there's no damn time limit ticking down until you can't go to uni anymore. Just study and improve yourself, then go for it
Don't want your abilities to leave you? Work for them then, as most others have had to
(side note, i've been through the french system and it's hellish, they're so obsessed with mathematics that's it's actually fucking ridiculous)

>If anything, calling someone "smart" or "intelligent" is just a run of the mill comment on their character, rather than being anything with a neurological or psychological foothold
I agree with that, the word as it's used commonly can mean a whole slew of things.
However, here by smart I mean "intuitive" at maths, that's my definition anyways, since it's my background and my day to day. Language students would probably correlate being "smart" with being able to learn a language quickly and efficiently, and so on.

however

>IQ is a good predictor of conscientiousness, it's highly correlated with success rates in this academia driven society
Hear that? Academia. Returning to your previous point, the reason that you never see a maths genius with a low IQ is because IQ tests are oriented towards quantitative and verbal-linguistic skill sets, which ties in to why people who score high on IQ tests have a much higher potential for success.
The Flynn effect actually tackles this issue in a roundabout way: people aren't getting smarter, IQ tests are just geared for educated peoples

That's not true, half of an IQ test is "performance" skills i.e. puzzles, spatial reasoning etc. And even the verbal portion doesn't have much to do with language per se.
Actually there's a guy who's somewhat famous in IQ circlejerks, can't think of his name, he was an near illiterate farmboy who took an IQ test in the army and ended up doing a PhD or something after the shrinks decided it wouldn't be fair to waste his potential.

Yeah the problem with "smartness" being applicable to difference situations is that in a clean cut psychometric approach, they're often too highly correlated to each other to even be considered separate
So what does IQ measure?

I see your point with the alternate skill sets IQ tests target, but it doesn't take away from my original point
Maybe workers weren't able to solve such puzzles, not because they were stupid, but because they hadn't been brought up with such a mindset
livescience.com/21778-early-neglect-alters-kids-brains.html
boundless.com/psychology/textbooks/boundless-psychology-textbook/intelligence-11/introduction-to-intelligence-61/genetic-and-environmental-impacts-on-intelligence-243-12778/
These two articles suggest that a low IQ can be either crystallized from early on or grow, depending on the environment the child was raised in
Interesting story concerning the farmboy, I can only think of him as some sort of "sleeper" genius who simply didn't have the opportunity to discover his own skills, however ridiculous that sounds
Anyways, what do you think of my proposition that you work your ass off and try to get into this uni? I have faith in you

They are lying to appear smart.

135 IQ is in the 99th percentile by definition. If you are in the top 1% of intelligence, you are not a brainlet by any means.

Still feel like a brainlet sometimes. But I took the test when I was 7 so it's possible I became a brainlet in the meantime.

Go LDAR. Please dont take others with you, /r9k/ faggot.

He does have a point though. People who were blessed in one area have a tendency to tell others it's just a matter of trying, maybe to piss us off, maybe because they feel guilty, or maybe they just don't understand how different they are. Either way it's very frustrating (hence the fact that every board has their own version of "just b urself bro")

Frenchfag here, are you saying universities like UPMC aren't actually that good?
How difficult is it to get in a master's program there?

L'ami je suis dans le même cas que toi, j'ai foiré dans une bonne prépa parisienne, puis là je suis en MIASHS à la sorbonne parce qu'au moins ca permet de trouver un peu de boulot après. Là ya des anciens mecs de ma classe qu'ont eu L'X et Mines...et je suis dégouté parce que je suis sûr d'être plus intelligent qu'eux.

Not OP, but my experiences give me very relevant information to this thread: I messed up my CPGE (a good one, too) because I was used to spending my weekends in high school playing vidya and smoking weed, did 45 minutes of maths exercices each sunday before bed, and still got only 19s and 20s in math because (HS was all brainlet-tier stuff), so I simply couldn't adapt to the workload of a prépa. I was, in a way, ready for this so I had done some administrative work before going to my prépa (on some shitty french government website designed for brain-dead highschoolers) to make sure that I would have "parallel" options of joining a uni when getting kicked-out of the prépa (you guys should understand: prépas feel like ultra-strict boarding high-schools, because that's exactly what they are except with insane university standards when it comes to the content of classes). I had the choice of doing a comfy Maths, or even Maths and CS, major at a no-name uni, which I was actually interested in, or a meme degree with some maths, some economics, some CS, and even some shit like fucking sociology which I don't even bother attending, all because it's at one of those unis that have the ~same standards as a "Grande École", so I might actually have a chance at being employed after.

L'X's oral entrance exams are actually public to spectate, and if you call to say that you're a teacher, are passing them, or plan to do so, you can actually get an authorisation to sit behind the examiner and look at them. I signed up for that (even though I don't plan on showing up for the exams), and some of the people passing them are pure brainlets.

cont'd:

My point is: the french system generally gives more valor to "hard but dumb work" rather than intuition or out of the box thinking.

Are you sure that not going to a grande école guarantees a shitty career in France, even if you went to a decent grad school?
I'm pretty sure my only option is to hope I can get into a good master's program. That said, I fell for the 42 meme instead of studying proper CS, so I guess I deserve to be jobless.

Name a country that doesn't have this system.

USA

>except for less than a handful prestigious universities with sort of a special status
principalement l'UPMC et sûrement Dauphine. y'en a peut être d'autres.

Bon moi c'était pas une "bonne prépa parisienne", mais une milieu de classement.
J'ai fait une semaine en MIASHS parce que je pensais que ce serai la planque, puis je me suis barré, c'est hyper déprimant. Genre des maths niveau seconde.
Là je viens de foirer une année (dépression, j'allais pas en cours), ce qui me fait deux ans de retard. Je vais essayer de voir si en tapant 18 de moyenne je peux me transférer vers une fac de non-cuck ou tenter une AST mais je pense que mon dossier va me c u c k

it depends on your field. Even if you're a maths/physics/cs/economy PhD you'll always get cucked by people from Grandes Ecoles or business schools (like HEC, which are a complete meme). But if you have a degree in law or biology, since there's no "grande école" in those fields then you're good. My uncle has a PhD in biology from an ok uni and is making 8k a month working in Hong Kong for a big french company.

this.
Apparently at least you have sort of an IQ test to decide whether you get into a good uni or not. Unless that other user was lying?
Spanish here, it's way simpler in my country: we don't have any good or prestigious uni kek.

Rentrer à UPMC pour un master/doctorat c'est aussi chaud que Dauphine?
>you'll always get cucked by people from grandes écoles
Pourquoi pas aller tout simplement bosser à l'étranger? Si la France veut pas de ses PhD, l'Angleterre et les US en veulent peut être.

>Rentrer à UPMC pour un master/doctorat c'est aussi chaud que Dauphine?
je sais pas du tout. moi avec mon dossier déjà pourri je me fais pas d'illusion. je vais déjà essayer d'avoir 17-18 de moyenne à ma L2/ma Licence pour voir si après l'une ou l'autre je peux aller à une univ moins pourrie, genre Strasbourg ou au mieux Paris 7 Diderot. Sinon, oui idéalement je tenterais d'avoir une Centrale ou une Mines de province sur les places réservées aux facqueux mais avec mon dossier c'est chaud.
Je suis tombé bien bas. Pour les PhD j'imagine que ça marche, j'en sais rien. Quelqu'un sait?

Après y'a toujours les VAE si t'as des notes de merde non? Et même 15-16 me paraît être une moyenne potable pour un master.
Je sais même pas si moi j'aurai la possibilité de m'inscrire en master vu que 42 ne délivre pas un diplôme d'état. Putain la déprime

C'est quoi VAE?
Pour le transfert idéalement je le ferai carrément en L3 si c'est possible, mais comme certaines fac sont plutôt sélectives je sais pas. Y'a des gens qui disent que deux ans de retard c'est fini, mais bon moi j'ai un peu une excuse, j'ai fait un an de MPSI raté, puis un an d'ECS réussi (l'ECS c'est une blague énorme), puis une L2 ratée pour les raisons évoquées. Donc je sais pas, je verrai. Deux ans de prépa et deux réorientations, c'est pas comme si j'avais retapé deux fois ma L1 quoi.
Et 42 c'est con, parce qu'à ce qu'il paraît c'est plutôt chaud, mais ça sert à rien. Au pire essaie de te réorienter en licence de maths info, tu devrais tout torcher non? Si t'as fait 42 en post bac ça devrait pas te faire trop d'années de retard, et au pire si on te demande ben t'as flairé l'arnaque alors t'as décidé de te réorienter.

>Logic puzzles
>Intuition

>Logic
>Intuition

They're two different things, friend.

Maybe the person at l'ecole polytechnique didn't feel like exerting himself, and refrained from applying much brainpower during his deductions.

At least you don't automatically get in because your skin is brown.

Not that user, but I looked. He's unfortunately not lying.

no, but I do think they tinker with the results in order to take more women in.

That user also mentioned that twice as many males apply.
Without confirming this information the statistics you've provided is insignificant

American education is shittier because Tyrone and Juan get a full boat if they've passed Calculus and Susan goes to any STEM school she wants because she's a woman interested in STEM (!?!), whereas Joseph and Chen are ignored for obvious reasons, even though Joseph cured cancer and Chen solved the problem of world Africa.

If anything, I'd rather have Frances system - it sounds like a meritocracy, and not one subject to the delusions of virtue politics.

VAE c'est une équivalence qui te permet de valider un master par évaluation de tes compétences, après je sais pas exactement comment ça marche.
>deux ans de retard c'est fini
Pourquoi? Ce serait très con comme fonctionnement, et pas très logique.
J'ai jamais entendu parler d'une fac qui te ferait chier à cause de ton parcours tant que t'as les compétences requises.
>ça sert à rien
Paraît que leurs devs sont plutôt bons, c'est surtout pour le master que ça va coincer. Apparemment le cursus est reconnu comme équivalent à bac +3 ou +5, donc je comprends pas trop.
Ouais j'ai 19 ans donc ça va encore, après "tout torcher" je sais pas vu qu'il y a pas vraiment de maths à 42.
>si on te demande
Ça me semble bizarre ça, j'ai vu pas mal de mecs de 23 ans et plus en L1, depuis quand les facs en ont à foutre de ce que t'as fait avant?

Here's something. Note that a portfolio is something you submit during your application. Just googling "gender imbalance" at MIT yielded some pretty scary articles/blogs, and on their own website.

Even though over twice as many men apply, women still have a higher acceptance rate.

How the fuck would you even know anything he said is from /r9k/ unless you go there yourself? More proof that morons are always projecting.
A grand school is a type of university.

In France, at least at the Msc level, has quotas too. I know it because I completed a master at the ENS, and there is a fixed percentage of foreign people to accept (not sure about gender/race though) but still. Also, there are very good French researchers that are struggling to get by because of this quota. They can't get promoted even if they are better than foreigners, because of muh melting pot.
So yeah, maybe the entrance for people coming from CPGE is strictly result-based, but don't be fooled. Some jewish arab is still going to get a better position than you even if you get superior results.

France should belong to the French only. I mean, you can study there if you want, but if you're looking for tenure, then get the fuck out, faggot.

Aussi, il y a une ségrégation anti-goy assez élevée. Putain de juifs, cassez-vous. La France se fait manger de l'intérieur...

>completed a master at the ENS
After a CPGE or a licence? How harsh is the barrier to entry?

Y'a des parcours très sélectifs en fac, genre les magistères. En plus de ça y'a des facs qui en elles mêmes sont sélectives.
On a jamais vu un mec arriver avec 2 ans de retard d'une université pourrie et être accepté à l'UPMC.
Moi j'ai 20 ans et je rentre en L2 dans une fac sans renommée, j'ai l'impression que c'est la fin.
en plus de ça là j'ai l'impression d'avoir perdu mon talent, c'est fou.
>repenser à mes profs de Term qui me voyaient à l'ENS
>repenser à tous les les brainlets au lycée à qui j'expliquais les maths, et qui aujourd'hui sont aux Mines de Nancy MINIMUM
tuez moi

Yeah it's exactly that, a meritocracy. But as such it doesn't reward the smartest (which I'm not claiming to be a part of) but simply the hardest working. (this is an oversimplification, of course complete brainlets won't get into a good school as I'm assuming it's the case in the US)

Not him but it's really pretty fucking hard. Unless you're among the 150 most gifted mathematicians of your year, you're not getting in.

I should specify, I meant the most gifted in France, obviously. And by mathematicians I meant math students, technically they only take undergrads in (I think)

Ah oui, je parlais des masters normaux, pas des magistères.
Mais je savais pas que l'UPMC était si sélective. Du coup une licence maths-info là bas je peux oublier?
>je rentre en L2 dans une fac sans renommée, j'ai l'impression que c'est la fin
C'est pas comme si t'étais en master dans une fac de merde, y'a encore moyen que tu te rattrapes — c'est quoi ton plan de carrière? Tu veux faire de la recherche?
>perdu mon talent
Oui, mais t'as encore une marge de manoeuvre. Et au moins t'en as, du talent.

>Mais je savais pas que l'UPMC était si sélective. Du coup une licence maths-info là bas je peux oublier?
Je sais pas en vrai, mais c'est ce qu'on m'a dit. Après, on m'a peut être dit des conneries.

>C'est pas comme si t'étais en master dans une fac de merde, y'a encore moyen que tu te rattrapes — c'est quoi ton plan de carrière? Tu veux faire de la recherche?
Avant oui, mais en vrai je suis pas assez intelligent/doué/HAUT QI pour faire de la recherche intéressante ou même avoir un doctorat je pense. Je sais pas, mon cerveau rouille depuis tellement longtemps. Même dans ma fac de merde je loin d'être le meilleur (après je suis jamais allé en cours et je me suis ramené au partiel en ayant bossé 1h30 donc bon).
Maintenant idéalement j'aimerais soit intégrer une école ou Dauphine ou au pire une école de commerce pour me la toucher, soit oui faire mastère+doctorat/agreg pour devenir prof et me la toucher.
Au pire je sais que j'ai toujours les admissions parallèles des écoles de commerce qui sont ouvertes (c'est hyper facile), mais bon payant+c'est de la merde mais il faut bien gagner sa vie.

Ça existe les facs "juste milieu" qui sont pas trop sélectives mais pas trop de la merde non plus, dans le domaine?

>ou même avoir un doctorat
Faut pas non plus être un génie pour ça. Tu voudrais un doctorat en maths (pures)?
Je te connais pas mais t'as pas l'air con. Tous les gens à qui j'ai demandé m'ont tous plus ou moins dit que pour un doctorat faut être intelligent certes mais surtout se défoncer.
Donc actuellement ton projet c'est d'avoir un taff calé et tranquille vu que tu penses pas pouvoir faire de la recherche?
Les écoles de commerce faut aimer, perso je trouve que c'est un gros circlejerk.

>Ça existe les facs "juste milieu" qui sont pas trop sélectives mais pas trop de la merde non plus, dans le domaine?
J'avais fait une rapide recherche et il me semble que Strasbourg, Rennes 1 et Paris 7 sont censées être bien, et je pense pas qu'elles soient si sélectives que ça. Strasbourg et Rennes je pense que c'est aussi parce qu'elles accueillent un magistère, donc évidemment ça doit jouer dans la renommée.

>Faut pas non plus être un génie pour ça. Tu voudrais un doctorat en maths (pures)?
>Je te connais pas mais t'as pas l'air con. Tous les gens à qui j'ai demandé m'ont tous plus ou moins dit que pour un doctorat faut être intelligent certes mais surtout se défoncer.
>Donc actuellement ton projet c'est d'avoir un taff calé et tranquille vu que tu penses pas pouvoir faire de la recherche?
>Les écoles de commerce faut aimer, perso je trouve que c'est un gros circlejerk.

Faut quand même se donner à fond, et moi ça m'arrive très rarement de me concentrer. Je dois avoir ADHD ou un truc du genre, je suis un millénial après tout. Même si j'adore les maths je galère toujours à me concentrer, même pendant un DS.
Mais oui mon but en gros c'est ça. Après si j'ai un doctorat je peux devenir enseignant chercheur dans une petite fac de merde genre la mienne, mais je ferai sûrement rien de transcendant. Enfin je parle de ça, il faut déjà que j'aie ma licence.
Sinon le truc que j'ai repéré c'est les Centrales de province, la barre a pas l'air d'être super haute niveau talent, ils ont un concours d'admissions parallèles et certaines écoles (Nantes par ex) ont un double diplôme avec une école de commerce. Après ça t'es bien je pense (du moins en France). Je vais le tenter mais bon avec mon dossier... J'aurais dû m'intéresser à tout ça en Term ou en prépa.

>Les écoles de commerce faut aimer, perso je trouve que c'est un gros circlejerk.
Clairement, c'est de la merde surcôtée qui tire son prestige de on sait pas où et qui réussit à se faire passer pour une formation réservée à l'élite intellectuelle alors que n'importe qui peut y entrer. tout ce qu'ils savent faire c'est caler des mots en anglais dans chaque phrase histoire de vendre du rêve aux ploucs dont le but est de partir aux "States" faire des liasses. Les "managers" kek.
Comme précisé j'ai fait une ECS, j'ai rien branlé, je me suis absenté comme un malpropre plus de la moitié du temps et j'ai été premier, avec 14 de moy. Et le pire c'est que c'était plutôt une ECS bien classée.
Enfin tout ça pour dire que la voie commerciale c'est effectivement du vent.
Mais bon, ça rapporte énormément alors tant qu'à faire, si y'a pas d'autre solution autant en faire une. Quitte à être trop con pour faire de vraies études, autant être riche hein.

putain je suis ,

>les profs au lycée qui me vendaient du rêve alors que je survolais des sous-cerveaux qui aujourd'hui ont tous un avenir meilleur que le mien assuré

"hits home", comme ils disent sur /r9k/

Les dossiers pour les facs c'est fini là?
Elles sélectionnent par les notes de lycée?

Je suis pareil et c'est très casse-couilles, t'es allé voir un médecin pour confirmer si c'était vraiment de l'ADHD? Y'a aussi des méthodes du genre pomodoro pour le travail régulier.

>je ferai sûrement rien de transcendant
T'es pas obligé de rester en université non plus. Certains domaines dans le privé sont très intéressants pour les docteurs en STEM.
Centrales de province je connais pas, je pense que viser un bon master déjà ce serait pas mal, après je me suis pas renseigné.
Si tu veux du fric pourquoi tu fais pas de la finance? Avec un master en maths t'es déjà bien, et t'auras pas à côtoyer tous ces suce-boules de "startuppers" et autres qu'on trouve dans les écoles de commerce

>csq les profs au lycée ont abandonné tout espoir à mon égard dés la première parce que je branlais absolument rien
Je peux même pas me dire que j'ai gâché mon talent comme vous deux, parce que j'en ai pas.

C'est mieux que de n'en avoir plus.
J'avais un mec en Ts, un abruti complet, mais au point où il avait sûrement un léger retard mental. A chaque fois qu'il y avait une nouvelle notion il galérait à comprendre. Il bossait 6h par jour chez lui, ses parents lui ayant interdit les écrans. Ben il avait 17 de moyenne en maths, physique, SI et il est aux Arts et Métiers aujourd'hui (dans les 1ers)

>Les dossiers pour les facs c'est fini là?
Oué pour presque toutes c'est fini. Je le sais parce que je voulais changer mais je m'y suis pris trop tard. En plus il paraît que c'est hyper chaud administrativement, voire impossible de changer de fac entre 2 années de licence, même avec un dossier en béton, alors moi... Après il me semble que t'as des facs ou y'a une deuxième vague d'inscriptions fin août. La mienne a ça en tout cas. Mais tu veux pas venir dans ma fac.

>Je suis pareil et c'est très casse-couilles, t'es allé voir un médecin pour confirmer si c'était vraiment de l'ADHD? Y'a aussi des méthodes du genre pomodoro pour le travail régulier.

Non j'y suis pas allé parce que je trouve que c'est un truc de millénial et que ça fait un peu "excuse". J'ai déjà été diagnostiqué Asperger à l'insistance de ma mère donc j'ai déjà donné de ce point de vue là. Je connaissais pas Pomodoro, ça t'aide toi?

>tous ces suce-boules de "startuppers" et autres qu'on trouve dans les écoles de commerce

J'aime pas non plus cette culture de la start up, en fait la culture de l'entrepreneur tout court. On fait un amalgame entre les maths, l'économie, la richesse, l'intelligence et on te crée le stéréotype de l'entrepreneur, ce visionnaire touche à tout qui fait rêver tous les cons (pas que les commerciaux, les écoles d'ingé aussi ont une grosse gaule sur la start up). Bien un truc de burger.
J'ai lu récemment "life is an IQ test and money is how we keep score". Youpi on est tous plus malins que Perelman.

>life is an IQ test and money is how we keep score
>il existe des gens qui pensent ça non ironiquement

>C'est mieux que de n'en avoir plus
Vraiment? De toute façon, y'a bien un moment ou, vrais génies mis à part, tout le monde doit fournir des efforts. Pour la plulart ça vient au collège/lycée, pour d'autres c'est plus tard.

>presque toutes c'est fini
Ça se fait entre Janvier et Avril sur APB c'est ça?
>hyper chaud administrativement
Au niveau des places à pourvoir? Tu vas faire comment alors?
Et du coup ceux qui ont arrêté puis repris, ou qui ont un parcours irrégulier en général, ils sont baisés?
>fin août
Pour le semestre de Janvier? Je vais me renseigner. Elle est vraiment mauvaise en maths-info ta fac?

>ça fait un peu "excuse"
Dans la mesure où la plupart des gens qui disent avoir de l'ADHD ont juste des problèmes mineurs de concentration, oui. Mais ça + asperger ça pourrait être un handicap réel.
Pomodoro c'est un bon moyen de structurer ton travail pour éviter de te faire chier et de te surmener. Moi ça m'aide pour apprendre à programmer mais ça fait que quelques semaines.

>la culture de l'entrepreneur tout court
Je suis d'accord, et ça colle pas du tout avec la culture française, ce qui rend tout ça très artificiel. C'est aussi ce qui me fait peur à 42, j'espère qu'ils sont pas tous comme ça.

>Ça se fait entre Janvier et Avril sur APB c'est ça?
Non y'en avait c'était jusqu'au 20 juillet, genre Grenoble

>Au niveau des places à pourvoir? Tu vas faire comment alors?
>Et du coup ceux qui ont arrêté puis repris, ou qui ont un parcours irrégulier en général, ils sont baisés?
Je sais pas, c'est un peu mon cas aussi.

>Je suis d'accord, et ça colle pas du tout avec la culture française, ce qui rend tout ça très artificiel. C'est aussi ce qui me fait peur à 42, j'espère qu'ils sont pas tous comme ça.

Non et puis même, n'importe quel con peut devenir un "entrepreneur" ou devenir riche. N'importe quel con peut faire HEC/ESSEC et fonder sa startup, il a rien prouvé. Moi j'ai un respect immense pour les gens qui ont des idées que je serais physiquement incapable d'avoir, mais c'est tout.

Et APB c'est galère? Tu dois fournir tes bulletins toi?
>c'est un peu mon cas
Ce qui est certain c'est qu'on est pas prioritaires.

Ouais le principe du succès entrepreneurial c'est d'être chanceux essentiellement, et accessoirement d'être bon en relationnel.

je sais pas j'y suis pas allé depuis ma term sur apb.
effectivement toi je sais pas mais moi je pense pas que mon dossier fasser rêver. aucune uni qui se bat pour m'avoir quoi.

>J'avais un mec en Ts, un abruti complet, mais au point où il avait sûrement un léger retard mental. A chaque fois qu'il y avait une nouvelle notion il galérait à comprendre. Il bossait 6h par jour chez lui, ses parents lui ayant interdit les écrans. Ben il avait 17 de moyenne en maths, physique, SI et il est aux Arts et Métiers aujourd'hui (dans les 1ers)

Arrête, tu me fais mal a penser aux gros crétins de Ts qui étaient tous plus forts que moi en maths et qui ont probablement du faire central / supelec / grandes mines, alors que je me suis fait une CCP moyenne en admission parallèle.
Enfin bon, au moins ensuite t'as une chance de combler l'écart en accumulant de l'expérience, au final 5-10 ans après l'école ton diplôme on s'en fout.

APB demande rien du moment que c'est pas un truc sélectif, mais pour changer de fac d'une année à l'autre faut monter un dossier et les contacter directement. Si tu veux une L1 c'est cadeau par contre, t'as juste a te soucier du nombre de places si c'est pas dans ton académie.

I studied at school with a physics Phd from cambridge. He got average A-Level Results ABB (the B was for Physics)
and submitted a group dissertation for his Phd, his only publication. He wasn't the smartest guy at school but had a healthy enthusiasm and was a pushy, talkative guy. In this case it was enough for a Cambridge physics Phd. He's arrogant as fuck now.

>
Most of the time admission at top schools comes down to luck, even if you have the grades. Did he do his BA at Cambridge? You cant get in with grades like that can you?

UCL

Phd Thesis: Transition Edge Sensors with Few-Mode Ballistic Thermal Isolation. He's the first name: DJ314l

>Arrête, tu me fais mal a penser aux gros crétins de Ts qui étaient tous plus forts que moi en maths et qui ont probablement du faire central / supelec / grandes mines, alors que je me suis fait une CCP moyenne en admission parallèle.
Tiens tu me fais penser à un truc d'ailleurs. Je connais un mec qui était dans mon lycée (pas dans ma classe), c'était un genre de Will Hunting irl. Par contre ses notes le reflétaient pas tant que ça parce que toutes ses copies étaient dégueulasses et mal rédigées. Il a commencé une licence de physique puis il a fait un truc pro, je sais plus quoi. Des fois je me demande comment il se sent.
Quand je vois que moi qui suis en fac et modérément doué je déprime déjà...