Criticisms of Psychedelics

Those articles youre reffering to arent talking about "secret access to spirtual knowledge" like said in OP. Those articles are about psychedelics ability to treat addiction and reduce death anxiety in clinical settings. They have years of solid research backing them up, so theres not much to refute.

You are asking for "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" by Hunter S Thompson.

I've tripped and been around a lot of people who've tripped a lot more than me and everyones experience is intensely different and personal. Anyone who says they know it will benefit you in a specific way is an ass. Do I regret? No. Would I do again? Maybe, but I'll never tell someone I know secrets to the universe or that they should trip. Would I invite a friend? Yes but that's it, no propaganda from me I like it and it's possible you will too.

Good thing we're on Veeky Forums.

You don't have to use a source to refute someone else's idea of fun...

Jesus, does everything have to be an argument with you spergs?

I, personally, don't like to use psychedelics because the of the way it heightens my emotions; it's scary for me to feel everything more intensely than I already do.
Just add "use it responsibly, don't abuse it, and see where it takes you" when someone talks about it.

I've tripped over a thousand times. Sold acid, mescaline, shrooms, weed, and anything else I could get my hands on. Even been incarcerated and involuntarily committed when mental health issues arose. I've seen around and I've seen about. Psychedelics can definitely be both dangerous and beneficial at the same time. So much depends on set and setting...

As far as refutations go, PKD is a good argument against drugs. His life story is tragic as fuck when you really look into it.

Also I recommend The Rose of Paracelsus. Written by a guy spending the rest of his life in jail on psychedelic charges.

John Montagues taught poetry in SF and said all the drug induced poetry he saw was uninspired

Huxley's Doors of Perception was met with a lot of academic attention from psychological, religious, and philosophical corners. Look into some of the reactions to that work; many were negative.

As for my personal experience, I experimented with psychedelics and many other substances a few years back. Ultimately the experience taught me that my experiments with drugs, hallucinogens included, were a self-indulgent waste of my time. But I don't necessarily knock others who want to experiment, or feel they've gained valuable insight from trips. Plus I still drink booze.

Sounds like you are over drugs. Congratulations, you grew up. You can move on without finding some sort of literature to reinforce your opinion. As others have said, this isn't really a topic worthy of academic discussion. Shrooms and acid were fun when I was a younger, but I'm not interested in them anymore. Nor do I have any interest in molly or coke (which I did a lot more than psychedelics). Most people who do drugs eventually just sort of grow out of them and move on, nothing more to say. No need to belittle people who are still going through that phase either.

t. oldfag who used to do lots of drugs and now just drinks

And your views on these metaphysical concepts are better because they weren't inspired by drug induced experiences?

Drugs are bad, mmkay?

Alcohol is a drug.

Also, for all those saying that this topic is not worthy of academic discussion, you must be real fucking blind to the fascinating way that powerful drug experiences highlight issues around the mind-body problem like virtually no other phenomenon. Even moreso the way in which expectations of experiences can have a huge transformative impact on those experiences... The research being done on psychedelics and their potential to rapidly speed up therapeutic processes... The research on the role of psychedelics in encouraging the evolutionary development of language (we're on a lit board!), and the role they have played in developing ritual and religion in general... Fucking hell you guys!

Rational Mysticism by Horgan probably won't satisfy you. But he goes into it very sceptically and meets some people who aren't all "dude lsd fixes everything lmao"

>Alcohol is a drug
One of the favorite irrelevant little truisms of loser drug hobbyists, which they use to rationalize wasting their time. Best said with a self-satisfied tone, as if this is novel and little-known information you've just brought to your interlocutor's attention.
>role of psychedelics in encouraging the evolutionary development of language
This is pure bullshit, sorry.
>role they have played in developing ritual and religion in general
lol. Let me guess, you got these ideas from Terrence McKenna?

Not the person you're replying to, but are you really arguing that any ancient cultures/people did not use psychs in shamanistic practices?
And this wasn't a part of their belief system and religious rituals?

Key word is "developing," Terrence McKenna thought that e.g. Christianity exists because Jesus ate magic mushrooms or whatever, and this is a popular belief among some extremely stupid people who like reductive explanations of human religion.

You should read up on acid. LSD used to be used for testing, before it was banned. There was a group of scientists given LSD and told to work on a problem they've never been able to solve.

Also, everything is worthy of academic or philosophical consideration. That's the basic premise of academia and philosophy.

..but alcohol is a drug. What the fuck are you so upset about? Someone pointing out you replaced one drug with another?

>There was a group of scientists given LSD and told to work on a problem they've never been able to solve.
Well?

Some of them solved their problems in unique and creative ways they'd never thought about before.

It's not irrelevant to correct you about alcohol, especially in this thread. Just because you dismiss other opinions does not automatically make your opinion correct, that's called having your head in the fucking sand. You said you stopped drugs but you haven't, and your drinking plays a role in your life. It impacts your bodily health, your sleep quality, your mood, and your interpersonal relationships.

Also, see this you smug fucking wanker.

As for the development of language, it is highly related to the retrieval of mental representations not immediately given by sensory data. This was a MASSIVE leap for human consciousness, what made us conscious of past and future. It is theorised that it relates to a lowered threshold for modal network activation, something that... holy shit - is caused consistently by psychedelic drugs.

I'm not the person that made the first post about alcohol. I've had it with smug little petit-booj shitheads barely out of their teens who are into this stuff, I've interacted with enough for a lifetime. They all say the same things.

McKenna did not believe this, and nobody gives a shit about idiots who do, they do not appear to be in this thread you fucking strawman building piece of shit.

But was is because of human tendancy to let expectation whiplash our competency?

Source TMcK said that?

ANDDDDD the druggies showed up.

DUDE THE MACHINE ELVES ARE BENEVOLENT LMAO

>correct you
Wasn't me. I don't drink, take your sanctimonious grandstanding somewhere else. Humans did not pick up language by eating magic mushrooms, sorry dude. There's zero evidence for this and it was pulled out of McKenna's ass.

>druggies showed up
>to a thread about drugs
This is a point because...?

You are so delighted in your own fucking ignorance, aren't you? Your only argument against my points seems to be
>huurrrrrr there was a guy called McKenna who was weird

Do you hate history and philosophy too? They are speculative? But anyway, read this.

druglibrary.org/schaffer/lsd/krippner.htm

shrink your brain with anime instead. go on now shoo

Who knows. It's possible, but that still means that through drugs they were able to overcome that. A placebo effect is still an effect.

Yeah, this is one of the interesting things. Like, if you were a drug company going to use placebo as a treatment, it'd be in your best interest to give it some bodily side effects, because the subject noticing something happening boosts the impact of placebo a huge amount.

Proof that psychedelics did not cause the development of language: these drugs make people actively dumber. It's the only conclusion someone can come to after being around these people for any extended length of time. They all end up high on the smell of bullshit.
>the Mario mushroom is basically the monolith from 2001, chimps ate it and learned to talk

samefag

>it taught me about a lot about myself... in the same way that a death in the family or reading a great book could.
And being able to do this in an evening is a bad thing?

Are you being obtuse my lad?
He means that it is not exceptional relative to other life experiences.

Who are "these people"? Are you honestly implying that all people who take psychedelics are traditional hippies? Like... Woodstock style hippies?

How fucking old and sheltered are you?

I know what he means, but dismissing the capability to develop the same kinds of existential insights as a death of someone close to you, without any actual death, and in a relatively short and harmless process... Seems like a really weird mindset.

Definitely not samefag, in fact that other person seems to be arguing against me. Can you read?

>in fact that other person seems to be arguing against me.
As many samefags do.

id be curious in a study of the sociological impacts it has on people communicating or interacting and a study to see if people who consume thoughs drugs might lean more toward a certain philosophy or how it might impact the long term planning or short term planning of individuals and groups

Shit I never even thought of doing that, but I might now. Cheers!

gay

Samefag

This research is coming.

You said hippies, not me. No, like I said, these young men are petty-booj shitheads who think they're onto something special by taking drugs. In a just society they'd go to the gulag.

no time to edit

you're an idiot and this thread or indeed board is not for you.

Eat my ass, namefag.

I've done acid a few times. Anybody who claims to have found any "secret to the universe" or "spirit realm" is a complete moron. Psychedelics, or at the very least Acid, provides insight only in the mind. It's only worth is allowing broader insight into the ego and how you process emotions, thoughts, those sort of things.

I've had profound experiences with psychedelics. It helped me realize things about myself- nothing that would be interesting to anybody else, really. Just personal introspection.

As for the philosophical uses of the drug, I don't know. Spirituality is deeply personal, so I do think it can help you realize a part of you that was starving for some sort of faith, but if somebody says that they "found God" or "uncovered the secrets of the universe" while tripping, their head is far up their ass.

>no time to edit
Really? Seems like you have a lot of time on your hands.

Oh, now I get it. You're the only one allowed to decide what is special or not. Sorry, I didn't realise it was (you), almighty omniscient one.

>the gulag

>Really? Seems like you have a lot of time on your hands.
I was expecting AT LEAST an accusation of 30 seconds being enough time to edit.
Lrn2into posting.

thank you user.

I think your watch is broken.

>This research is coming.
when?
like this year

read the filmename

If it's not a waste of time, why are almost all habitual psychedelic users hopeless failures?

Shitty, lazy b8 or deluded faggot...

That's like saying all people in the West are overweight.

>food analogy

What exactly is it that you think there is to refute?

As some others have said, these drugs can make for extremely powerful and genuinely useful personal experiences (and can be equally destructive of course), and this seems a more appropriate framework to consider and understand them, at least for now.

To make a further point, what people should understand is that research into these substances (say, since the dawn of LSD) have been heavily curtailed and repressed, or perhaps I should say hoarded, primarily by the US government (I don't know if this sounds tinfoil hat-y to some, but it is really not a very bold claim).

Thankfully this is starting to chance, and there is no good reason to suspect that further research and understanding of these substances will not divulge meaningful insights, both material and spiritual, about the contents of our mind.

Almost all humans are hopeless failures. You've said nothing.

...

...

>that's like saying (thing it's not like)
Oh?

...

thought provoking offering senpai

>all people who take psychedelics overdo it and end up burnt out
Is the same as
>all people who eat food overdo it and up up overweight

The initial point was so OBVIOUSLY rubbish that even a simplistic analogy will do.

>The initial point was so OBVIOUSLY rubbish that even a simplistic analogy will do.
haha
*tips*

It was a plainly stupid comment. Now lets move on.

naw aw

I'm OP, I meant a continual usage of coke over the period of year and actively reflecting on it. Long term drug use is a slow death, you learn about your own capabilities; not necessarily in a good way. It's taught me about myself and made me stronger but I'm not suggesting the world would be better if everybody did blow, just like I wouldn't advertise killing your father to understand a deeper truth.

I think very few really "overdo" it if that's even possible, most just weren't that bright to start with. The more time they spend in the fantasy fractalverse the worse it gets.

>just like I wouldn't advertise killing your father to understand a deeper truth.
wot

I haven't slept in thirty six hours just shitpost like the rest of these fags

what did you mean by my quoted comment

OP I'm sorry for shitting up your thread. It was kind of a bad topic to start with though.

He clearly hadn't read the OP comment or my follow ups in between.

Nevermind, bro, I was the one you were responding to and I take your point.

I didn't have my question worked out until a couple responses enlightened me.

My problem isn't with acid trippers but it's a broader issue with mysticism. Was able to contextualize what psychedelic advocates talk about and relate it to a larger conversation. Gained some insight, ended up shedding some light on a conversation I wasn't privy to before.

Great thread for me.

Disregard anything that claims to have derived 'profound' and/or spiritual meaning from psychedelics.

The plants have these substances as poisons, to keep from being eaten by being disorienting, nauseating, distorting vision and spacial awareness. It's literally a defensive poison, it's fun at parties if you can ignore the retards who think it is more than that.

There are much more complex symbiotic relationships (involving changes in consciousness) between plants and other animals, let alone humans.

pretty sure it's a semen demon right there

Papers please.

90% of people who do psychedelics are no-life hippies and millenials who want to spend their parents money to "open their third eye," rooms covered in tie dye curtains and so on.

The other 10% see the benefits and embark on the journeys to try to gain something for themselves. Wattson and Crick, Terrence McKenna, a whole bunch of musicians, etc.

Like anything else in the world, you can't judge something entirely by the people that associate themselves with it. How many shows do you watch with a cancerous fanbase? How many bands do you like with dumb fans? Either you're interested in psychedelics or you aren't, no sense making judgements based on the vocal majority of its users without any firsthand experience.

>Everyone should do LSD at least once

Why do all druggies say this? Can't they understand I don't want to risk my brain getting fried?
>hurr LSD won't fry your brain
if it costs me even a single brain cell, it will be a devastating loss to all humanity

>weeaboo
When you're old enough to form an opinion, feel free to join the thread. Until then, back to your picture books.

>druggo getting triggered
>complaining about weeaboos on a chinese coloring website

just came here on a boat from redit, eh?

Howbout the posterchild of psychonauts...?

"Once you've gotten the message, put down the phone" -Terance McKenna

I interpreted it as: experience enough to change yourself and don't become the fool reexperiencing these mystical moments over n over.
As per scientific/philosophic critical opinions of this lifestyle I believe none have come so far as per the utility of these psychedelic substances (addiction cures, ptsd cures, creativity boosters)

>anime picture on an anime imageboard
The humanity!

fewf, im glad you dont actually think you have an argument

There was a recent academic paper that talked about hallucinations.

Contrary to how it's commonly perceived, psychedelics stop information from accessing the brain.

Originally it was all "oh, my brain is getting all this new information, its being opened" but actually the research shows that the brain gets less input, and the hallucinations are generated due to lack of input. Its your brains filling in the gaps - like those optical illusions.

That's not to say that having less stimulation is beneficial, and that it can make you think about things alternatively but the idea that you are seeing things that are really outside yourself is questioned.

Personally I subscribe somewhat to Leary's idea that psychedelics could be used in therapy to effectively re-imprint someone, to get rid of neuroses and hang-ups.

>Personally I subscribe somewhat to Leary's idea that psychedelics could be used in therapy to effectively re-imprint someone, to get rid of neuroses and hang-ups.

nice bro-science

Do you realize this is a website for weaboos, you fucking retard?