ITT: Viruses

Why are viruses incurable or not able to be treated entirely? However you'd prefer to put it. Why can't our collective work and problem solving abilities at this point in time find a way to track the virus specifically or infected cells and destroy them?

Couldn't we have clean cells isolated somehow and left undestroyed to propagate new cells after the purging of the infection?

I don't know anything about this, I'm just thinking. Have a bug bite on my dick and I thought it as herpes. Got me scared af. Need a cure for that shit if I ever get it.

they can be, if they dont mutate readily. But certain ones, like the common cold, mutate so often and can even combine with other forms of itself to create new forms, so identifying the cellular factors to target becomes a challenge.
But smallpox has been eradicated because it was not mutating radically. Basically the same with polio, give or take a few cases her and there.
Herpes is very manageable with valtrex now anyways

So if you have herpes on your dick go to the doctor for anti-viral treatments to prevent breakouts.

Next, viruses tend to insert their DNA into cells and lay dormant for long periods of time before rapidly multiplying and attacking everything around themselves. We are unable to determine which cells are infected and which are not unless they are active, or use a DNA test which can be time consuming and expensive. We also can't just isolate cells and then purge the infection because viruses are all over the place. That would be like getting a bruise and slicing off the bruise with a knife and waiting for it to regrow. Our immune system is remarkably adept at fighting off viruses and vaccines protect against many different viruses unless you are retarded and don't vaccinate. Anti-viral medications help weaken viruses mechanisms of action and improve immune system ability.

It has been looked into where one might be able to trigger a wide-scale infection and prevent cells going dormant with application of virus propagation factors. Basically make someone super sick for a bit to clear out their entire system of herpes or whatever using the immune system.

Managable and curable? is that the right word? are two different things. Is there not a way to turn the cells off somehow? I read, and don't know about the validity, of electricity being used to neutralize the cells of a virus so that the immune system could kill them. Is that legitimate or is it stupid? The article I read was specifically about HIV.

Last one is to you, sorry. Hit the wrong button.

Don't think I have herpes, I am going to the doctor tomorrow though. But there has to be a way to cure viruses. That's all I'm getting at. There has to be a way to identify the dna sequence that is fucked up, or different and eliminate it. Especially with things like Crispr and shit like that now.

read although not all viruses do that, lysogenic cycles is why you cannot "cure" yourself, their DNA is lying dormant in your genome, ready to produce more viruses upon an outbreak (usually stress caused in herpes' case). There is no way to turn the cells off no, but even if you could, that would probably lead to really bad side effects since those cells are operating normally and are necessary for normal body function. The electricity thing i have no idea about but it sounds ridiculous, it doesnt explain how it would target only viral DNA containing cells and i have no idea what it's mechanism of action would be

Our body already has immune cells that attack infected cells. The problem is that the virus reproduces fast enough to still make copies in them.
The problem is that some viruses lie dorment in the host cell's DNA, and are only detectable when the viral DNA is activated (which usually occurs in cellular stress, etc.), or if the DNA insertion interrupts a gene and causes cancer.
It's also very difficult to target a specific virus, because they have a relatively high mutation rate and have a massive reproduction rate. As such, the antigens on the virus (which are the targets when targetting most diseases) constantly change, and there will liekly be copies with other versions existing in the body as well. This is the reason that vaccines for viruses like the flu are seasonal at best.

Could you theoretically concoct a serum that would "cure" a specific strain of the virus and then continue with different recipes until you hit the jack pot? Sounds dangerous to me, but again, I know nothing about this. Just thought though that a flu vaccine gives you that specific strand in a state that allows your body to build antibodies for the specific strain, so maybe it wouldn't work with a virus like AIDS or herpes.

Come on, Anons. We could solve this.

>Come on, Anons. We could solve this.
what do you think researchers are doing user?!

>Could you theoretically concoct a serum that would "cure" a specific strain of the virus and then continue with different recipes until you hit the jack pot?
something similar was done for polio, a specific strain was first found to be effective in a vaccine and then the other strains were further elucidated.
you vastly underestimate just how fast viruses evolve, faster than anything else im pretty sure. It's hard to catch one at a stage where it doesnt have many forms, all of which require an individual vaccine.

To highlight how fast they evolve; viruses are vastly more simple than bacteria. All they are is a protein shell (the only detectable part), with some enzymes and DNA/RNA on the inside. A single virus can produce thousands of copies in tiny timespans. The extremely simple structure only serves two functions, with the shell only being involved in bonding to host cells, and the enzymes and DNA/RNA being involved in reproduction. Given how simple each function is, mutation rates can be high for each reproduction (which occurs extremely rapidly). Slight structural changes in the shell can significantly affect the viability of antibodies, whilst having little effect on the viability of the virus to reproduce.
So far, the most effective measures to cure/manage viruses are the ones in your body; all we can really do is prevent the spreading of them through sterilisation, eradication of vectors, and quarantining or isolating those who are likely to spread them. Even the vaccine is primarily a biological process; all we are doing is providing a safe environment for your body to develop its immunity (and antivaxers seem pretty fucking quite whenever measles outbreaks occur in areas with low vaccination rates).

Why couldn't we also work on it? None of you have labs set up in your garage? Why are you even on this board? Lmao

Veeky Forums found Shia Lebeouf's flag, we can cure AIDS. Hahahaha

>None of you have labs set up in your garage?
not that i would ever admit.
>Why couldn't we also work on it?
who is we?

Don't worry op, you need to have sex to get herpes. Piggot virgin

I'm absolutely sure that there is a way to find the remnants of these protein shells or the DNA/RNA once the virus has infected a healthy cell or evolved. We can split an atom, we discovered quarks. Why haven't we yet found a way to isolate "broken" or altered strings of DNA in cells and eliminate them?

Anyone have any good reading material for me to study so I can understand what we're up against here?

Anyone who puts their mind to it is "we". I'm sure there's a way we could share data. E-mail would work, for example.

try and obtain data about viruses at an at-home lab and tell me how well it works.
>I'm absolutely sure that there is a way to find the remnants of these protein shells or the DNA/RNA once the virus has infected a healthy cell or evolved.
you should prove it, im willing to bet theres a Nobel in medicine in it for you

On it, bro. When I find a way to isolate and eliminate viruses remember this. It'll happen within 5 years. Not even.

>Why are viruses incurable or not able to be treated entirely?
Viruses have no metabolism and propagate through a permanent non-equilibrium state of coming to thermodynamic equilibrium.

no, figure a way to tell if a cell has been infected by a virus and also a way to target that cell for gene editing treatment (to remove lysogenic DNA). That really would be amazing.

Why couldn't you just compare the cell to the cells around it in a large sample, or to cells that are absolutely known to be healthy, such as someone without the virus? By doing so wouldn't you be able to identify differences and then target the differences in the unhealthy cells?

So by creating a very large imbalance couldn't you potentially eliminate or create the conditions for the elimination of infected cells? Like boiling water, or freezing meat? Sure it would be hard as shit in a person, but is there no way at all?

Still looking for some reading material, my guys.

i almost said "if they were, they wouldn't be called viruses anymore" but then you hit me with the second question. "we" ain't got gud yet?

I'm trying to decipher your internet jargon but I don't understand what you're getting at. Care to elaborate?

I'm in the boat. Chem anf Bio BA here.

There should be a way to extract the Virus from sth simple as a tissue full of snort or saliva. Then the RDNA of said Virus. That is not the questions. However we need to know how to develope a fitting vaccine within time (a.e. before the virus goes all Mutation).

Microbes mutate really fast.

assuming you're op, you first asked why are viruses incurable or not able to be treated entirely to which i would have said "if they were curable or able to be treated entirely they wouldn't be classified as viruses anymore" BUT you went on to ask more questions making my other answer stupid and just confirming your idea that our collective work and problem solving abilities at this point in time hasn't found a way to track the virus specifically or infected cells and destroy them by saying ""we" ain't got gud yet?" kinda like saying maybe someone's found a way but isn't sharing it with the rest of us but maybe someone is working on it instead of goofing around on Veeky Forums.

You're that one dude who can't be a team player, eh?

no, it could be as simple as mixing brownies and salsa (the correct proportions of course) and someone who doesn't need it found it and has no idea

Okay, I'm picking up what you're putting down and I dig it, man.

Let me do some more research and see what I can find. Be right back.

P.S. Doc says it looks like a bug bite. No herpes or hpv for this guy. Hahaha

OP here reiterating:

Okay, so let's sort this then, the issue isn't identifying damaged cells, but instead finding the correct serum for the level or particular evolution? Or am I off track? These threads can be difficult to follow.

Goofing around on Veeky Forums may be something a lot of people here do, I only come here when I want information, id you stay too long you become the meme. That aside, we could pool our collective knowledge or abilities and figure something out. I'm just thinking my guys, and I enjoy the challenge of trying to out do every fucking scrub in the medical or biochemistry fields. Hahahaha

So, is identifying infected cells an issue that is yet to be solved? If yes, let's figure it out, if no, then let's move to the next thing. The possibility of gene editing to repair them, or finding a way to create isolated temperature fluctuations in order to "purge" cells of bacteria or viruses or whatever a virus is classified as if not a virus. DNA is like computer code, we can delete codes and bypass codes and rewrite codes and do all sorts of things with it, why can't we find a way to do the same thing in order to neutralize a specific type of DNA/RNA and then allow for the immune system to attack them? Or hijack the immune system and force them to attack cells that "fit a description"? Kinda like racial profiling. Lmao

> That aside, we could pool our collective knowledge or abilities and figure something out.
no, we couldnt. Because most people here dont have adequate knowledge or abilities, let alone the facilities, to conduct such experiments. What you're saying is "research is going too slow paced, cant amateurs do it" and the answer is NO, especially with this virus stuff. Even if we came up with some amazing data and an amazing protocol so much of it would be called into question because it's not an established lab, we have no credentials, and if it was something that was so easy to be discovered in an at home lab, they would have already discovered it.
Your enthusiasm really is admirable but you're like the new guy at work who comes in wanting to change everything; even if your ideas are top notch you still have to establish some clout in the community to be taken seriously.

also just from the content of your posts, you need to take some more upper level biology classes to even realize where you are being overly ambitious when you suggest some stuff. you can't just edit DNA like a computer code.

My science teacher had a rather good comparison for this. Bacterial is like an invasion that can be fought. Viral is like espionage where you arn't sure who is on your side until its too late to matter.

The solution to one is far simpler and more uniform than the other.

Its not very scientific and is a massive over simplification, but is made sense at the time and I got a bit of a laugh out of it.

You can treat bacterial infections with antibiotics because the drugs take advantage of the physiological differences in cell structure between a prokaryote and a eukaryote. Fighting viruses is similar to fighting fungal infections. Fungi are eukaryotes and therefore share some similarities with human cells. Viruses hijack cells to replicate themselves; for this topic it would be human cells. The difficulty lies in hurting only the infected cells and not our own, normal functioning cells. The type of problem you would be facing is as follows: Viruses hijack cell metabolism to reproduce; so shut off cell reproduce; how do you target infected cells specifically and not normal cells?. As previously mentioned, you would also have to worry about cells that are not actively producing viral phages.

Another factor is that it is hard to culture viruses than bacteria, and even harder to culture human cells to test on.

One idea that I did have while writing this is using viruses that prey on viruses to help eliminate viral infections. I heard somewhere that these exist, and it might be possible to use them in some capacity. I have also heard of viruses being used to cure bacterial infections, where the viral particles will invade and lyse the bacteria and not the host cells.

Another option is to use something like a recombinant vaccine to cure a virus.

>One idea that I did have while writing this is using viruses that prey on viruses to help eliminate viral infections.
i dont know if there are any that "prey" on other viruses, since another virus wouldnt be able to replicate the original virus, but there are virus-virus interactions which you have to account for in some research.
>. I have also heard of viruses being used to cure bacterial infections, where the viral particles will invade and lyse the bacteria and not the host cells.
bacteriophage therapy!

you should look up viral-mediated drug therapy, it's really interesting

Solid stuff, dudes, keep it coming.

To the guy who said something about amateurs doing it, everything you use from your phone to Veeky Forums, to your car, started in a garage. Sure, people want "clout" but just because you don't have a degree doesn't mean you can't do the job.

You are right however, I have literally zero idea what I'm talking about from a scientific standpoint. But I do know the basics and that DNA/RNA is nearly identical to computer code. I understand it wouldn't be easy, but it must be possible. All things are that we can fathom or else we wouldn't be able to fathom them. At least in a tangible way.

I do have doubts about harvesting and replicating viruses, and all but it's not impossible and with the medical equipment you need being cheaper than ever, thanks to India and their super cheap shit they developed, someone could definitely set up a home lab and do these things. It would take a lot of careful work, but it is possible. You can get a centrifuge for like $20 now. They wear out quick, but they exist.