Fuck paleo thread

Nice strawman faggot

just curious, but how would adding carbs into the equation prevent circulatory issues?

as far as i know paleo just promotes a healthy diet without the consumption of grains and legumes

theyre not like those retarded keto fucks stuffing their face with cheese and bacon

Such a nasty thread

The issue boils down to the high meat comsumption. How I see this issue is this
A healthy diet from the Paleo perspective
>large amounts of meat, no grains, no legumes (legumes are one of the healthiest food groups, just behind greens) and greens.

The problems with this diet is
1. The amount of meat consumed on this diet will cause a lot of health problems. The large amounts of cholesterol and saturated fat is going to fuck your arteries over a long period of time
2. The fiber from greens isn't enough fiber, (i eat 80g of fiber a day so maybe I'm biased on that front)
3. To put it blunt, a healthy diet, and a diet with large amounts of meat in it are mutually exclusive. Whether or not those following the diet think they are being healthy or not. It's a very harmful diet that will lead to a lot of heart attacks, diabetes and cancers in years to come.
The main issue is the meat consumption
If the meat was replaced with legumes and whole grains it would be incredibly healthy

A true paleo diet where one hunted game and fished locally combined with gathering wild plants, roots and fruits would be ideal. But the problem is most of these paleo fags are just wannabees who don't hunt, fish or gather. They're like the faggots who dress up in camo, eat MRE's, read SOF and play paintball every couple of weeks and believe they're highly trained soldiers.

>meat is unhealthy xddd
There's nothing inherently unhealthy about consuming large amounts of meat, provided its not all 70/30 ground beef in the form of hamburgers.

Is this not just a regular persons diet? I mean this sincerely since I'm not fully aware of an Americans diet. I'm Mexican the way.

Legumes are one of the healthiest, cheapest foods around. Not eating them is a mistake.

This guy knows what's up
Too many people ha have bought into the "phytic acid is bad" meme

I may be misinformed or misremembering the tenets of Atkinsism as I'd never actually followed the diet because I'm not a fatty fatty fat fat, but isn't the Atkins method to severly restrict carbs for a time then slowly reintroduce them to your diet? As far as I can remember, once you reach the last "phase" of the diet, you're allowed 80g of carbs daily while the first one restricts you to under 20g. Keep in mind that I'm a tall guy from a somewhat heavily grain eating culture so my grains intake is somewhere around 200g or so per day. Even at its most lenient phase, Atkins wouldn't work for me.

Atkins is a meme, the healthiest populations in the world consistently eat a largely wholefood plant based diets with animal products used sparingly.

Misinformed? I wouldn't say that
The bottom line isn't how many cars are being consumed. It's a ketogenic diet, some paleo people might eat enough carbs to stay out of ketosis. But on an Atkinson diet, all you are really left with is animal products. With are not good for the human body. Remember he once said eggs and bacon is healthy.
Ketosis is a symptom of sickness. It should not not be used as a method to lose weight and keep it off

he's right, you know
sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S155041311400062X

>High protein intake is linked to increased cancer, diabetes, and overall mortality
Yep. This.

Paleo lack of grains and beans is huge flaw making this a fad diet but not a healthy longterm lifestyle

Thought about going keto.

Know what's funny? Literally none of those peoples eat whole grains. I'm from one of those five "blue zone" cultures. The wholemeal meme only reached our ears in the last ten years while it's been the prevailing view of healthy eating in Ameriland and Britainistan since the 70s (or earlier). Yet, we still live longer, healthier, more active lives than our English-speaking counterparts.
We eat mostly veg and refined grain supplemented with a bit of meat here and there, mostly pork. We don't shy away from animal fats, either.

I may be misunderstanding you or you are misunderstanding me, but to rephrase, Atkins, as far as I could tell, doesn't seem very unhealthy in the long run because it eventually reintroduces carbs, even if at half the rate typical for most other cultures. Paleo eaters, on the other, lose their shit if you offer them popcorn. God forbid if it was prepared in soyabean oil and not cocomeme oil, then they'd REALLY freak the fuck out.

>Keto
A meme fad diet that will help you lose weight quickly but is not good for your health long term and when you get off of it you will gain weight back

That's not meat, that's just protein in general.
Which, okay, go ahead and live to the ripe age of 95 with 0 strength your entire life.

>implying you can't gain muscle on a low protein diet
Veeky Forums has truly poisoned your mind into thinking that you need 4g/kg of protein to gain muscle, hasn't it?

I don't browse that worthless board, so no, but avoiding protein and expecting similar strength gains is silly.

I agree completely that many people drastically over-estimate how much protein their body needs. Some of the figures you see people discussing online are absurdly high.

But that said I know well from personal experience that if you want to gain muscle you most certainly have to eat well. I worked out for more that two years with pathetic gains before I realized just exactly how much I had to eat in order to gain well.

gains vs being healthy
I see them as different objectives entirely

>I see them as different objectives entirely

I agree with that. Gains certainly require eating more than maintaining a healthy body.

But the point remains that some of the figures you see people discussing--even for gains--are FAR in excess.

>implying you can't make gains on 0.7/0.8g of protein/kg

...

*heems you*

Refined grains aren't much of a problem if you eat plenty of vegetables with it, that's true. They've only been around on a large scale since the industrial revolution though, for most of agricultural human history whole grains were the staple.

Which of the blue zones are you from? Are you from one of the actual communities they covered or just roughly in the area?

Also, the benefits of the blue zones are of course not merely diet but also culture, which is something people tend to forget. My guess would be that a relaxed goat herder eating lard would live a hell of a lot longer than someone with an impeccable diet who works on Wall Street. Stress is still underrated as a source of health problems.

I implied nothing of the sort. That's a very reasonable amount.

4 grams/kg? That's fucking absurd.

Cagliari.
And I always say that culture is a big part of it. We do a lot of the things that dietetics in other countries say are unhealthy eating habits, yet with live with fewer longterm illnesses, are slimmer and have a tendency to live longer than Americans, Brits, Aussies and so on. And other cultures do the same. So I jokingly concluded that speaking English natively is detrimental to your health. Then, I realised that my joke might not be far from the truth and guessed that it must be cultural. I believe there's a cultural aspect to longevity that just isn't covered in all these "Eat Like the Italians and Live 4ev0r!!!" diets championed in the English-speaking world. That, and portion ratios. By caloric ratio, most of our diet is grain. By mass, most of our diet is vegetables.

What makes the bulk of an American dinner plate by both caloric ratio and mass ratio? I'm guessing the stereotype of beef and deep fried potatoes can't be true.

>What makes the bulk of an American dinner plate by both caloric ratio and mass ratio? I'm guessing the stereotype of beef and deep fried potatoes can't be true.

Extremely hard to even answer that question my man. America is far too large and regionally-distinct (setting aside economic/cultural strata that influence food choices) to have a typical plate.

Wealthy people all over the USA eat organically and can probably, given the number of choices available if you can pay, eat the "best" out of anyone in the world if they so chose.

But that's maybe 5-10% of the population who can actually afford to just say "fuck it" on food prices and focus only on healthfulness.

To be frank the problem is really that people don't cook.

But there isn't a typical plate.

Seems like a good way to live. The grain is probably mostly bread and pasta, right?

I was under the impression that the more you go inland to the little traditional villages in Sardinia the healthier people are, although I guess the whole of your island probably has better habits than most Americans.

Yup, bread and pasta. Bread is the most consumed form grain comes in throughout Italy, even more than pasta because rice and polenta can take its place from time to time as do potato and chestnut, though those aren't grains. But bread is served at all meals, be it toasted day-old bread for breakfast, fresh bread with lunch and dinner or bread and chocolate (or jam) as a snack.
My family eye me with suspicion because I don't eat bread with every meal.

Okay I understand you know
Interesting that you come from a blue zone.
Well let me put it this way.......If I have someone eat 10 eggs a day as half the caloric intake for the day for a month
And then after that month I change it to 8 eggs and 2 slices of wholegrain Rye bread.....its healthier sure. But that doesn't mean it's healthy.
Do you get where I am coming from? It would be better if the individual in question didn't do keto to begin with

I want to rant about people maligning legumes but ill save you some time for now

There must be some sort of diet or even singular food that prevails in popularity coast to coast (and islands) like Italy and bread. We have an extremely varied diet, too, changing considerably even if you travel just a few dozen km down the track from one town to the next. Like where I'm from, fish is obviously the protein of choice, but travel just a bit inland and its pork. Travel a bit further and goat is most popular because no other animals can be kept in such mountainous terrain. Beef is enjoyed all over, but it's not an everyday thing like pork, fish and goat tend to be (place to place).

I forgot to say, all of Sardinia is blue but really, all of Italy can be said to be a 'green zone,' if such a term exists. The longest living Italians are centred in northeastern Sardinia, just a little south from the northern coast. As far as I know, most of what they eat besides fruit and veg is bread, pork and chestnuts. The pigs they eat are fed a similar diet made of the scraps they don't eat themselves but with chestnuts as the staple. Up there, chestnut is so prevalent, they even make it into bread, polenta and fucking beer. Not sure what they use to bitter chestnut beer, though. I don't think it's hops.

IINM, the philosophy behind Atkinsism is that the prospective dieters metabolism is unbalanced or something and he's only meant to put himself into ketosis for a month or so to reboot it to more proper function at which point, carbs can be enjoyed again.
The 80g daily limit Atkins proposed for maintenance was, as far as I could tell, to prevent former fatties from gorging on potato chips and Sara Lee pie.

An aside, anyone know why Sara Lee stopped making coffee for the American market? In Europe, especially France, they're far more popular for coffee than they are for their shitty pastries.

I'm aussie, and our culture is generally 1/3 greens, 1 meat, 1 grain. As a general rule anyway. Obviously this is unbalanced.

Since I have been feeding myself for years, I kinda do the following
>Most grain products are homemade - so no store bought pasta or bread
>I put as much green vegetables as I can in the food without sacrificing flavor or what I regard in my mind as balanced.
>Meat is usually the most important aspect of a meal but it is never the bulk
>Homemade tortillas and so on

Basically cut processed food and half the battle is one.
Mind you, I drink to an unhealthy level. Who cares, I bake my own bread and rarely eat food touched by anyone elses hands or some fucking machine.

What kind of fucking retard eats 10 eggs a day. That's just a meme right?

>What kind of fucking retard eats 10 eggs a day
Joe Rogan

>Looks arab but called joe
So the retard has a name

youtu.be/8NvFyGGXYiI

This

Thanks for the replies, it's nice to get an inside perspective.

What kind of bread do you guys mostly eat? And how liberal are you with applying olive oil? You sad people don't shy away from animal fat either, does that mean cooking with lard and such?

White or partial whole grain baked at home most of the time. Sometimes I might do a sourdough. If I am really lazy I get a ciabatta from the local bakery.

I'm not super liberal with olive oil but I am not afraid of it. Certainly not sting.

As far as cooking with fats. Hell yeah, pig and duck fat are great oils for cooking. Probably a lot healthier than canola or vegetable oil anyway. The flavor difference alone is worth it.

Pro tip, if making asian noodles which aren't instant, drop some pork fat in prior to serving.

Do you make loafs or rolls or something?

I thought you guys were also known for flatbread.

Gains being objectively more important

You never get off it.

The. Most common throughout Italy is sourdough. Many areas have their own variant on it, but the basic recipe is generally the same (flour, water, starter/yeast and salt). The variant common to Sardinia differs from other sorts in flavour but I"m not exactly sure where that difference comes from. Also, it's fucking huge. 1 loaf weighs over 4lbs (they're about 2kg each). A typical family buys one daily. Say you buy a loaf day 1, you eat most of it with lunch and dinner then the leftovers get toasted for day 2's breakfast. Then a new loaf gets bought and the cycle repeats. There's also hardtack which is still eaten in the most rural of rural areas but its popularity is dwindling. Only old people eat it now, soaked in milk and coffee at breakfast or in broth for lunch/dinner. There are a few cracker like breads but they're also unpopular among the younger crowds because they're drier than a camel's cunt. There's a few softer flat breads similar to the wraps Muzzies use for kebab on the continent. And that chestnut bread up north. And I'm sure at least a dozen others but the everyday bread is the huge, round, sourdough loaf.

We don't really cook with lard too much, but some, yeah. I meant more like solid animal fats. In the US and UK, supermarkets sell cuts of meat with all the fat trimmed off. That shit doesn't fly with us. If we do use lard, it's more in the form of freshly rendered from cured pork fat.
Get some cured fat, chop it up and put it in a pot with olive oil (we love our olive oil). Set it to high heat and when you can hear it sizzling, lower it to let it render out its fat and crisp up the solid pieces. Then build what you're cooking on that.
Old people like to spread rendered fat on bread and eat it, but that's also unpopular with younger people so that will eventually stop being a thing, too.
Sorry for the delay.

Continued from I've never known anyone to cook with duck fat outside of memestaurants abroad. It's certainly not typical to Italy never mind Sardinia. And ciabatta is not common in Sardinia at all. So where are you from, user who would be me?

Yeah, the flatbread meme is kinda false. It's not really common these days.

>i eat 80g of fiber a day
serious question, what are your poops like

Silk blankets

Thanks again. So the sourdough is made with white flour?

Sugar causes heart disease not saturated fat holy shit the autismo in the thread is bad as the shilling my professors do

Citation needed.

...

So wait, meat is good over 65 but not under? Ok, how do I not fuck up living a long life? Low carbs low animal protein high plant protein? Little bit of everything? Fuck.

There is nothing wrong with carbs.

thats exactly what he was implying retard

Wasn't sure so I looked it up. It's made with plain, hard white flour as well as toasted hard white flour. Also a little bit of yellow wheat flour (semolina). Guess that's why it tastes different.

don't fall for the low carb meme

>Also a little bit of yellow wheat flour (semolina). Guess that's why it tastes different.
Intredasting, thanks.

I've been on paleo for 15 years and my cholesterol has been lower than ever before and I'm healthy as fuck.

sugar and carbs kill you, not meat. get fucked idiots

paleo is retared because all of the current vege you eat is nothing like they ate in paleo time period. theyre all farm crops you dumb shits

this goes for the meat as well desu

You can't. Not beyond a snail's pace, anyway.

1.2g/kg is bare minimum. Up to 1.8-2.0g/kg will likely provide benefits. Beyond that it's really personal preference.

Also, that study is shit because it didn't control people's diets. The high-protein group likely includes people who ate a lot of fried diets, and lower class people who were behind the times.

this.
isnt paleo just "cook urself" and thats it?

>But it's fucking awful for the human body. It might be great great at first. But If you go on it for 10 years. Your going to have a very unhealthy circulatory sysyem, your heart will suffer, and most other organs.
>calling anything pseudoscience when that's all your post is
I R O N I C
R
O
N
I
C

if you need a citation for that you've been under a rock for 40 years

>The amount of meat consumed on this diet will cause a lot of health problems. The large amounts of cholesterol and saturated fat is going to fuck your arteries over a long period of time
>If the meat was replaced with legumes and whole grains it would be incredibly healthy
Holy shit the evidence to support your claims has been superseded literally a dozen times in the past 10 years. Lmaoing at all the dumb fatties in mama's basement getting their info from a 1980s diet book

90% of living a long life is not being fat. The other 10% is eating plenty of meat, a good amount of vegetables, and as little grain as possible. Grains are only good at making other food palatable and don't listen to any of the vegan pseudos using the fucking USDA My Pyramid from 1991

>it's cheap so it's good for you
Healthier than a lot of things but not healthier than fish or egg protein.
>inb4 cholesterol
jesus you guys are fucking stupid

Grains are not bad

It's cheap AND good for you. And it is healthier than fish and egg protein.

The longest lived populations on earth eat little meat and a lot of grain.

I bet they don't sit on their asses posting on Veeky Forums all day either, though.

Correct, they spend a large part of their day engaged in moderate physical activity. Walking around, doing garden work, chores, that kind of stuff.

As do I.

ah-sah-EE