How to read well?

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I would add plutarch to that, even though he is roman era, he is a greek and does justice to the great greeks of history. Also, Xenophon's Anabasis doesnt get enough cred on this board

Read the epic poems,not kidding, they are accesible, and even if you dont digest evrything, you'll be able to discern why things happen in later works. The Odyssey, The Aeneid, Inferno, Paradise Lost etc.

You dont have to read them all at once, you can intersperse with whatevr easy genre novels or pop-sci books you find interesting, just know that there is tons more out there that is way more interesting, challenging, and rewarding.

a good entry point would be to use one of Veeky Forums's starter kit images.

Also, get off Veeky Forums

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Lurk more you colloidal daggot

>no ovid

what the flying fuck

I'm too new, why poems? I thought a book was a book. Whats with the history, the philosophy? This place is like a religion worshipping memes and books and specific authors, what am i missing here? (i'm exaggerating slightly, but not as much as i'd like to think, but you get my point)

Greek literature is the basis for the western literary tradition. It isn't a meme. That and the bible is pretty necessary.

If you want some solid reading list, see to the Modern Library editors top 100, blooms canon, or the harvard classics list.

"Memes" are gas posting, DFW, and suggesting Joyce to beginners.

It's a meme in academia too. Virtually every western philosopher in history has built their foundations directly on greek philosophy. The more you study them the more you will realize that Plato is probably the most relevant philosopher in history. It is that necessary.

He has no experience in philosophy, he only has a Bs in Philosophy and a PhD in Neuroscience (wich he bought, prior to that he never studied it). It may seems sensical to you, but he's as bad as any philosophy undergraduate you will find in any university. Literally none of his book has ever been taken seriously by any actual philosopher or university, and he costantly refuses to talk to anyone of them, opting instead to talk with minor celebrities.

He's the quintessential hack. He has a cult going on, and he won't give you any guidance to escape it. Either you know why his aeguments are shit or you'll get trapped there forever.

He's basically intellectual poison, it's like reading only teen novels, or listening only to pop music. There's better art out there, but as long as you indulge with those mediums you won't ever reach it.

Again: study real philosophy first, and when you'll know better and get comfortable with actual good arguments move to Harris. It will be a good lession on what to avoid when doing philosophy.

also, i bought shadow of the torturer and a ra lafferty book off of one of those starter images. but i'm so not on your (and lit's) wavelength. What am i missing here. I like music and going out, i'm pretty normal, where am i straying of the literary, life of the mind? A life I don't think Veeky Forums users have, but its one they acknowledge and understand

It's a starting guide for everyone interested in philosophy and humanities overall. If you want to be able to analyse and critically assess related topics, then starting with the Greeks is what you should do.

Harris is a pop-philosopher and you should really read at least some primary sources to see through his many faults. Personally, I share some of his views, but have to concede he's a hack overall.

ok.

now regarding harris. Well I'd like very much NOT be be stuck anywhere not worthy being. So i'm comfortable questioning harris w/ you. But Sam to me seems to be less philosophical and more normal and sane, his argument about truth with peterson which many on lit are aware of - saw harris argue for an understandable and clear definition of truth, and peterson ramble about true being changing based on other factors. Harris on politics, philosophy and religion seems pretty rock solid - if some greek philosopher would disagree with him, why should i care (serious question)

It's a starting point to serious literary works. You shouldn't be stuck on it if you're just learning to enjoy reading for now. Pick up whatever seems fun to you. Amis and Wolfe are fine, but drop Harris - he's really just a fedora full of faulty reasoning.

see my below comment, i'm a borderline BIG harris fan and have meeted and greeted with the man so i wanna know what you all have to say about his shortcomings

Ah yes, Publius Ovidius Naso, the great Greek poet.

see my above comment plz, whats the beef with sam here everybody?

Its the difference between taking up Harris' arguments as your own, and forming your own knowledge based on sources that you can bet Harris himself has read.

readings of religious,philosophical, historical and political works will give you a firm base to create your own opinions, and look at people like harris and go, "yeah hes a smart guy, but hes wrong here, and here is why, and here are my sources..."

sure ok, i can see where one may need to lay their own foundation. But hasn't Sam done that? DOesn't he reason well?

i'm just defending sam at this point, i totally take your point that one should seek out larger, great ideas that preceded oneself

probably because he's Roman...

>19
>new to reading
Tell me again why literacy is so prized when the proles don't use it anyway?

Who cares what he has done. What about you? There are tons of authors and thinkers that I agree and disagree with, but my opinions are mine, and I can defend them because I've read 2000 books over the last 20 years that arent about spaceships shooting lazers. This doesnt make me a better person, but I dont need a podcast to inform my world view, although I am not saying there arent points of view to be considered in better forming my own.

lazers

>But hasn't Sam done that?

His education is laughable.

>DOesn't he reason well?
He always uses the same arguments, costantly make unjustified claims and, when you look closer, none of his ideas are new or original (they are in fact centuries, in some cases even thousands years old), and even if they're stolen they're not developed enough to make a compelling argument.

You literally won't ever find an actual philosopher who is also able to appreciate Harris. As soon as you'll understand what an actual good, rock solid argument looks like, you'll start seeing Harris gor what he really is: an amateur.

Now, he may be one of the best published amateurs out there, but that's it. It's barely worth reading, and when it comes to build philosophical fundations he is just useless, unless you're planning to build your philosophy on podcasts and 10 minutes youtube videos.

whats this mean? SF is trash and philosophy is king? Why does lit see sam harris as such a fedora sporting mental defective, and why is it toxic to listen to podcasts by sam incredibly beneficial>?

>unless you're planning to build your philosophy on podcasts and 10 minutes youtube videos.
Get with the times old man. I based my life philosophy on regurgitated memes spewed by pre-teens on an anime imageboard.

he has a phd, his education is heavy duty, no?

All you lit guys do is appeal to this amazing authority of philosophical gods and writers and dead men. Can anyone just tell me why Harris is a joke on here? Other philosophers are just stupid men who can't work and are dreaming childred, why would I care what they have to say about Harris' credentials? Really though, why would I care? Can anyone refute one of Harris' appparently so offensively stupid points?

>why Veeky Forums
It's not a Veeky Forums meme, it's a global meme. The pnly safe heavens from this meme are r/atheis, r/samharris and Youtube comments under his videos.
There is no debate over how much he's worth: 100% of the academia thinks that he's a charlatan.

It means you have to be intellectually honest enough to understand which works are for pure entertainment and which works strive to provide a beneficient value, whether factual or theoretical.

This, when in doubt wiki quotes.

Appealing to authority is also a huge error. Education=/=providing value that survives wide scrutiny

am i really in the dark here? please somebody tell me WHY WHY WHY he is a charlaten, liar, idiot, fedora wearing athiest idiot, and all around celeb philosopher

Are you also upset it doesn't include Virgil, Horace, and Cicero?

please address these points fellas. i don't get how i'm either such a retard, or you are all cynical mongs

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He bought a PhD in neuroscience, he has no prior education in the field.
He published his first book with his family's money (her mom is loaded) following the New Atheist movement that was rising in those years. He then opened a charity program to support Atheism, and spent all those money to fund his PhD (wich is easy to do, if you can pay for your equipment).
He then proceeded to design an experiment that is now used costantly to show to graduates how not to design an experiment with fMRI. This is literally his only contribution in neuroscience, and it has been used ever since as a laughing stock.

He also has a Bs in philosophy. That's his education. There is no authority to appeal to, when talking to Harris.

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theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2012-winter/sam-harris-unscientific-morality/

ok i see, i dont have a problem with his under the radar fmri stufy though. i think hes a good, honest, well-reasoning philosopher and writer and communicator.

I'm also saying YOU are the one(s) appealing to authority by saying "all other big amedemics see his as a joke".

you can't just pay your way to sitting at a table with christopher hitchens and dawkkins and being considered their friends - whats up with that?

Appeal to authority works when you're discrediting one philosopher using only another philosopher.

That said, when the ENTIRE international academia thinks you're not worth anything, and no relevant work is being written on the foundations you've laid on, EVEN when you're as famous as Harris, you can just assume that he is not worth anything.

It would be like believing in mystic crystal pseudosciences and defending them saying that what other physicists have to say is just appeal to authority, even if 100% of them hold the same exact opinion.

but the whole field DOESN't think that. some nutbars do.

But as you've said earlier you have no experience in philosophy. I do, I'm writing my Ms thesis and I'm 100% sure on what I'm saying.
Find me a single respectable philosopher who spoke highly of Harris. The burden lf proof is on you, since, as you will quckly discover, there is no such example.

but who cares (serious question). he's published books and spoke about topics and make podcasts that i've found benefit in, that the free market has appreciated. He's a sane, sensical man, not a charlaten and a liar and a joke. He's spent years travelling and meditating and reading - why is he shunned here? I thought you guys hated the mob, which seems to hate harris

well for starters, you're fucking wrong. plenty of people here do socialize despite the Veeky Forums stigma. I keep that shit to a minimum because I like privacy and hate crowds, but I'm human, I need to socialize and be around friends and drink and smoke and fuck.

You asked how to read better, we're telling yo how to. If you dont want to set the groundwork to understand some of the most fucking sublime texts known to man, then just visit your local barnes and noble and buy the entire ouvre of James Patterson and never come back here.

>that the free market has appreciated
kek of the day, thank you

i am clearly so tuned out of your two wave lengths, but i can't seem to tune in. I want to read and read well, and understand. And i am suitably cynical etc etc. But I do not have and cannot summon up any hatred of harris, and dont understand the type of autismo cynicism found here

Like I said, you dont have to read the entire greek catalogue, and if somehow you decide to do that, you dont have to do it at once, reading should be an enjoyable experience and you're allowed to indulge into lesser stuff for fun.

I can't take you seriously no more. At this point os like trying to defend Beethoven while talking with an hardcore Miley Cyrus fan. You're obviously unaware of anything about philosophy but Sam Harris. I don't care enough to change your mind, considering that you're not even willing to read what other people have to say about him and his career. Nothing will chamge your mind, I can see that.

Keep enjoying the fact that he has got published (not a big deal when your mom was is a multi-millionaire with Hollywood connections), the fact that he has a podcast and the fact that the masses that you so much despise prefer to listen to his shitty, amateurish podcast instead of reading the books he's plagiarizing (dumbing them down, of course, for your so beloved free market). I'm out.

what Cynicism? I dont think you know what that word means. That's exactly why you shold start with the damn greeks, so you should understand what the fuck you are saying in the first place.

Also there is no "wavelength" stop spouting whatever new age crap you've heard, you either want to learn or not, simple as that.

brilliant. nobody seems to holding out an antenna for me to tune in to your bizarre disco of cynicism.

I'm a cynical, borderline outcast young man, I like older different music, I do important things, and am keen to understand the world and life in a more complex way.

WHY and WHERE are we diverging lit?

i'm not a barnes and noble kinda retard, thats all. and i dont see how we can't converge on this grand idea

You'd think people would know this by now I didn't post for more than a month before I understood what goes on here. Redditor influx of late hurts my fucking soul tho

>you will never be this autistic about a shitty philosopher

xD

all u retards do i point at harris and me defending him and laugh, citing nobody but claiming EVERYONE thinks hes a joke.

>I'm so special! I was born in the wrong generation!

You are the equivalent of those annoying Youtube coments by teenage girls and boys who think they are so unique.

Stop saying "tune in" seriously.

i'm glad that's all that's getting thru to you guys.

Why are you hellbent on Harris? We told you to start with the Greeks and form your own opinion first. If this will happen to coincide with Harris's stance, then I'm sure everyone will be thrilled to listen to your reasoning. Right now your posts boil down to "I like him, no bully".

i'm saying "hes a fine man, and reasons well to my ear" and you all point and larf! no proper rebuttal, only a pathetic appeal to the authority of the gang of lefty philosophers out there.

A HAHAHA KILL YOURSELF UNDERAGE FAGGOT

18s an adult outside the US you dork

well, there's nothing getting through to you. If you're not ready to learn then, it's ok, keep doing whatever it is you're doing.

What proper rebuttal are you expecting? He sounds good to you, because you're not yet equipped to see the faults in his reasoning. Someone has linked a piece with details here already, but you've ignored it. Do u want to discuss his philosophy in detail? Go to a specific thread. Do you want some more book recommendations? Ask away. Otherwise fuck off to pol with your "le retarded lefty cucks", we have enough teenage autism here already.

REPORT AND HIDE
REPORT AND HIDE
REPORT AND HIDE

idk dude just pick what ever you want