Ok, so let's have a comprehensive thread about transgender and transexuality...

kek

>Alright guys, let's have a thread where people who have no idea what dysphoria is sit in a circle and tell each other just-so stories about what its effects and what to do about it

>phalloplasty requires an implanted erectile prosthesis to achieve an erection. This is usually done in a separate surgery to allow time for healing. There are several types of erectile prostheses, including malleable rod-like medical devices that allow the neo-penis to either stand up or hang down.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalloplasty

>define trans

>considered a mental ilness

We can either discuss about terms and their definations or just the concepts. I rather do the second one. Although I wasn't clear with both my questions, you got the right idea.

>let's just use a term and ignore a conversation

thank you for sharing your experience user, hope it goes well. Technically you never associated yourself with the female gender specifically right? Was it only based on a sexual spectrum?

>let's just use a term and ignore a conversation
It's very telling the amount that this thread throws around the term "mental illness" but I use the actual, used for the dsm criterion, term for the mental illness and just get confused replies like this. If you don't know anything about gender dysphoria why are you qualified to have a conversation about it let alone make random bullshit you made up on the spot and present it as authoritative like every reply to

> neo penis

My pardon if I offended you. But if you don't have anything to add on the subject with your qualified knowledge then don't add "nothing".

Also, I'm having a hard time seeing where I presented anything about transgenders with an authorative way of thinking. I came in asking questions despite my experience.

You're making a lot of assumptions. I'm not offended, you're the one who replied to me, I was only defending my stance.

...

Isn't Klein felter syndrome exactly what op should be talking about.

Isn't it the existence of two X (female) and two Y (male) chromosomes in a male.
Wouldn't that make that person genetically as much female as male?

She better off just being a lesbian.

F2M transitioning is shit. Basically you just mutilate yourself and you end up looking like an fem guy or an ugly girl.

Not to mention all the problems you'll have later in like after taking testosterone

Well I guess I thought I was a type of homosexual. But it's odd because I really do like heterosexual sex and romance. And I'm sexually very feminine.... But I'm not particularly troubled by being thought of as homosexual. It's true. That's how my parents and friends see me, and they love and support me. I'm happy too. I honestly think that it's better to not think of yourself as actually female, even if it feels like you're female "on the inside." I have feminine gender identity, which is probably why I never felt like a male. It can be a very confusing condition. And it's still painful to think about the fact that females can experience great pleasure from being penetrated. And that they can have the best kind of sex with the most masculine and powerful men. And that men love that and want them to let go and let out their inner "whore." And that men will fall madly in love them, and fight for them, provide for them, etc. If there is any feeling in this world that will make me murderous, it's the feeling I get when I think of shit like that. And ultimately that's why I prefer thinking of myself as homosexual. I share their fate. And I feel proud. Because I'm an intellectual. And dedicate myself to knowing the world, etc. Lots of homosexuals are like that.

But yes. It was based mostly on a sexual spectrum. To the extent that gender play a part, it was in the form of my mannerism and the way people saw me. It's hard to see how you behave. But other people thought I was gay. And I didn't even realize I was feminine because I made no effort to be feminine. And could not see myself in real time. But the upshot was that it was hard to make friends beyond a small group of gay boys. It was fine. But I had to transition because eventually I wouldn't have that safety. And I felt like I would never successfully integrate into the male gender role, and be respected. I feel a lot more competent and powerful as a female. More confidence, humor, more self esteem, etc. But the sexually is still the main thrust. If you, as a presumably heterosexual man, are unable to be sexually fulfilled (you know having sex with girls, having a gf, etc.) you become seriously depressed, frustrated, perhaps even hateful or aggressive. It's not a good situation. It's like that for me, except I wanted straight men.

Their genotype may appear male, but is more of an anomaly that is effectively female (with non-functioning reproductive organs). They are, in nearly every way, a female. This is because their Y chromosome is practically non-functioning, and so they have a single active X chromosome directing sexual development. In females, one of the two X chromosomes is always silenced, leading to the same situation.
Interestingly, the rates of being transgender is actually lower in their population.

I mean this seriously. Convince her to go into getting psychological therapy before she begins transitioning. This is the only method of treatment that has a statistically significant benefit in terms of satisfaction with oneself and decreasing suicide rates.

Does she pass as a male? That is the most important thing.

If that makes you feel any better, penetration is pimped as awesome but is incredibly overrated. Pleasure necessarily comes from clit rub. Penetration is okay but 100% optional, like nipple rub and etc, but media won't tell you that, maybe because that takes the central role out of males. I'm not even talking about porn, even the sex portrayed in movies aren't pleasure efficient at all.

A lot of what you're saying is a picture sketched by culture but doesn't correspond to no one's experience irl.

Yeah that makes me feel a bit better. Knowing you're not having mind blowing sex lol. But I hate anal. In reality it's so uncomfortable. And gross. But I've sucked it up. Can't have everything you want. And gay guys make it work for them. So fuck it.....

I've heard a tranny say they had a "male brain in a female body". I don't understand this, does that mean their brain is literally programmed by a separate set of chromosomes that are XY instead of XX? How does that even happen?

The development of the brain isn't only controlled by your DNA. Fetal hormone levels (from the mothers blood) can have effects on how genes are expressed

So? How does that make the brain "male"?

> I have feminine gender identity

This might come completely out of left field, but I truly cannot comprehend what people are talking about when they claim they feel like they are a particular gender.

I mean this in the most respectable way possible, but it takes serious effort for me to think people are full of shit when they make claims of feeling like they a certain gender REGARDLESS of whether or not it matches their sex. I identify as a male only because I look down and see a penis. There's no other reason for me to think that. If I woke up tomorrow with a vagina, I would then identify as a female.

I don't feel like a male on any level deeper than the superficial. I just don't understand when someone claims they feel like a woman or feel like a man. It just sounds like made up bullshit to me. I understand that one may have a sense of style or set of mannurisms that is culturally identified as male or female but that doesn't mean you feel like a male or female, you're just masculine or feminine.

On the other hand, I understand my experience is limited and some people can even see colours that I can't and then there're things like synesthesia. So maybe these people have a sense that I don't; a sense of gender.

this. to me, it sounds almost as ridiculous as being upset because you think the sky should be red, not blue. but people get upset over all sorts of ridiculous shit.

well, i'm a cis male, ever since birth i was bombarded with images, films, tv, gi joe dolls etc, all telling me to act and think a certain way
some of this is stuff i like, some isn't, i pick and choose, i have that luxury
but for some people i guess it's like none of it makes any sense and they prefer the imagery women get bombarded with

like, it's all defined socially to begin with but that doesn't make it any less real

>I understand that one may have a sense of style or set of mannurisms that is culturally identified as male or female but that doesn't mean you feel like a male or female, you're just masculine or feminine.
Pretty much, but at some point you are so feminine that you feel that you are better off being a female, and perceived as female by others. It would help you be more comfortable and fit in more.

I would define it as a felt absence. A sense that those organs ought to be there. Or that one ought to be a material female. Ok it's hard to explain. Read the paper A review of the brain structure Reasearch on transsexualism if you want an objective perspective. Subjectively this is how it felt. You can make up your own mind about it. So I felt like I had a female body even though I recognized that it was male. For example I couldn't take my shirt off in front of other boys because it felt like was exposing my breasts. Or I wouldn't look at my own penis when I changed pants or underwear cause I felt it was wrong for me to see that organ. You might say that I was very modest. Perhaps so. My relations to boys and girls and the world in general was very odd. I felt like everything was wrong. I felt sexually competitive against other girls even though there was no competition because of course I'm not female. I don't want to feel that way but I do. With boys I felt attraction. But it was to straight boys. I wanted them because they wanted females. They wanted the female body type. That was so hot for me. Straight sex is genuinely what I like above all other things. So I identity as straight. I never thought of myself as homosexual despite physical attraction to men. So there must be some cognitive structure that is compromised. Now I know I'm male. And I know most straight men would not want me even despite my being very pretty. Well I know that "intellectually." And yet I can't fathom it in heart. I never could. Males always treated me in a way I found incomprehensible. Here were a group of people that I felt I ought to be in sexual or romantic communion. And yet they treated me with indifference and contempt and mocking, etc. In middle school I refused to take off my clothes in the locker room. But my dad forced me to go back to school, so I had to. Well other boys noticed my awkwardness and liked to humiliate me by taking my shirt away, which...

I've actually been thinking about this lately, I feel like the problem with transgender/sexuality is more meta than the actual things themselves.

I think the fact that we have a culture that puts such an emphasis on personal identity that people will mutilate themselves to feel self-consistent is worse than the mutilation itself, and the fact that people will accept the mutilation as healthy and thereby encourage that culture is sicker still.

... I used to cover my breasts (I didn't understand how odd this was til later). I felt defenseless because at bottom I couldn't understand how I could even be in a relation like that to males. If a boy was to hit me I don't think I'd hit back. It just seemed incomprehensible. To give you a final example, and this is a tad bit personal. But whatever. The first boy I slept. I gave him head and he cummed in my mouth. Well I got so scared because I swallowed. I was panicking. I walked home thinking that it was all over. That my parents were going to kill me. That I'd have to tell them what happened. I actually though I could get pregnant by swallowing a guy's cum. Well I looked it up and was in tears when I found out you can't. I didn't ever occur to me that I can't get pregnant because I'm male. My perception of myself as male was very weak. Almost intellectual. Like it lacks substance. And it's not that I wasn't educated about sex. I knew. I just didn't stop to think through where the baby was going to come out. And I was still convinced it would come out of my butt or something until I knew for sure. Anyway you can make of this what you will. But that's generally what's meant by being a "female inside."

>I didn't ever occur to me that I can't get pregnant because I'm male.

this sounds more like a problem with your deductive abilities than anything else.

No it's not that. It's hard to explain. For that to be true being male would have had to have been a more substantial realit to me. In the strangest way it wasn't.

so one could say that you were out of touch with reality.

Sounds like a smooth, seamless, and clear "transition" to "becoming the other sex". Not at all like a problemed imitation.

Yes. If it was a question of deduction, I presume the compromise would be a general one. But my cognitive deficit here was sex specific. And I know I'm male, it's just I have a difficult time registering the reality of that.

this doesn't make any sense. if you know you're male, then that's just a basic fact like any other fact that you know and use on a daily basis.

Elaborate. You have a set of underlying criteria that compose the concept of a "male". You compare yourself to it. It evaluates to "true" or at least "net true". Therefore, you are male. It's a one step process.

That it isn't registering means you have a barrier, some manner of dissociation, mental conflict, or do not actually believe the information you're using. Rendering being "male" more a conceptual matter, and suspension of disbelief. Pretending, that does not really map. That is what you must unravel.

I don't think of myself as an anything on a macro scale like that. I live on the lower level. I am a machine that has traits and functionality, all the high level stuff is derived and manipulated in the moment. It's not integrated into some sense of identity. I do not see why other people cannot do the same. Just like I do not see why people cannot hold beliefs in a way that is not binary true / false, with new ideas having to override the old "truth". People cannot just hold onto and weight things.

I do not understand. It's like most of you are a different species. I've had my share of identity / existential issues, but I just don't understand. All these people, all these problems. All these solutions that don't get results, but they act like they do. Broken people.

That's a good metaphor for how it seems.

What you're talking about sounds like individuality. People who are unable to pick and choose seem to me to perhaps place too much value on conformity and pleasing their close minded peers.

I can dig this to a certain extent. Like, when a boy becomes too feminine, he tends to be socially alienated so actually being a girl would be better. But that's more a society issue; people are not open minded.t However, the whole gender identity thing to me appears deeper than that, that even if everyone was suddenly more open minded, they would still literally want to be the other gender.

It just really seems like you're out of touch with reality. Delusional or something. Either way, this is more or less what I was looking for, a completely foreign perspective from mine.

One thing I don't understand though, is, for example what about people who are male and sexually are male, and make the claim that they feel like they are male? I don't even understand that.

It's the difference between intellectually grasping what a male is, and seeing that I am. And the felt reality of my sex. To me the pregnancy scare was real. That is it was really felt. I thought about it at the time. But I honestly couldn't be sure the baby wouldn't begin gestating. This sounds absurd. Of course it is. The felt reality of my being male more than the intellectual fact of its being true, is what didn't register to me. The human mind is capable of being fucked up in so many different ways. It's a little like asking a someone with synesthesia to describe what it's like to taste blue. It's real to them. Even if it sounds absurd. The this person knows that intellectually. So they have to judge their felt experience against the intellectual knowledge that one does not taste colors. It's a hard thing to do.

No not delusional. I know intellectually what's what. But my body perception is compromised. It is called gender identity disorder. So yeah it's a mental disorder. But it's not like schizophrenia or anything like that.

But to answer your question. Mental disorders are useful for understanding the basic structures that in a normal person are not apparent because they are not causing them problems. So a male might feel like a male but that feeling is probably undifferentiated becasue he is male. The structure in this case (sex-specific body perception) is working. So you don't notice it. The only way you would is if, in my view, if you were compromised in the feminine direction.

>To me the pregnancy scare was real. That is it was really felt.

i don't mean to say you weren't frightened or make light of your fear, but somewhere in the back of your mind, didn't you know that it was untrue?

Sorry, I should've reworded that. I meant that it seems like delusion at first glance, as in, that is just how it CAN be perceived. I think I know what you mean.

Perhaps. I'm willing to accept that the feeling indeed exists for everyone, I'm just not convinced it does. Maybe it does. Feelings are just outright among the messiest of phenomenon.

I actually didn't. I had to have it intellectually confirmed. And what convinced me at the time was the fact that you couldn't get pregnant from swallowing. It's just that body perception is more "primitive" than intellect. So it feels more real. I didn't make the connection male = ~ pregnant. Male didn't mean anything to such a substantial extent that I could register the absurdity at the time. All I knew was that I had a guy's cum in my body, and that meant pregnancy. The only real question for me at the time was wether swallowing it would lead to gestation.

Yeah sensory modes can get screwed up. Body perception. Sexuality. Attention, empathy, cognition. A lot can go wrong. And it's often hard to see what's going on. So yes messy is a good way to describe it. That's psychic stuff in general though.

Trannies should be gassed

I've been in such extreme pain (coupled with seemingly migrainous phenomena), for long enough periods that I saw colors pulsing and bleeding off of objects. I'd lay awake and feel my mind scattering into pieces, I felt as though my limbs were scattered widely around the room. My bones were growing and my ribs were threatening too jut out of my chest.

My left side does not... quite, feel like it is mine, and never has. I have had phases were I envisioned my body as being female, and could rapidly switch between states of perception.

And when it ultimately came time that I decided to drag my way back and unravel underlying absolutes, or at least modes of existence I could live with and accept deriving value from, I began the incredibly painful and cluttered process of doing so. I began rebuilding myself, and I slowly moved on.

Why? Because I don't think in terms of identity and labels, and I don't fall victim to group-think. I don't see people on the internet, and elsewhere, proclaiming "I am X!", anchoring on it, and then look within thinking I need to align with a group. So I can have a name and be an XYZ too.

It sounds trivializing, but I really do think that's all a lot of this is. It became a thing. Groups formed. Patterns in opinions, for and against, formed, and people began to polarize. People get sucked in to tribal bullshit and have their own personal self discovery crippled. Then they mutilate their bodies thinking it will bring peace, self coherence, and clarity.

It is tragedy and watching it is cause for despair. It is difficult, and I lived as a concept for many years to dissociate from chronic pain and my failing body and mind. But you must learn to accept the body. Learn to be your body, at least, for a while. Even if you don't like it, it likely is not so bad.

>identical twins have a ~20% rate of BOTH being gay/trans
>people still believe that being gay/trans is genetic
it is environmental
if it was genetic you would see a stronger correlation with identical twins and being gay/trans than twenty fucking percent
whoops i mean put this 15 year old on HRT and give their parents a refill on their oxy surely nothing will go wrong :^)
tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15532739.2013.750222?journalCode=wijt20&

lmao holy shit dude you should become a tranny, you certainly have the fucked up brain for it
where did all these random sophist faggots come from on Veeky Forums of late

I don't follow.

>I had conversations with transexuals
Yeh and I'm sure you need those buttplugs "for a friend" too. Gender dysphoria is a diagnosable mental disorder. Get treatment and build a better life for yourself. There are people who want to help you.

>i had migraines
>and THEN i had to live like a normal person except special!
protip: not identifying with a group does not make you superior. it makes you autistic, and you are not the better person for being some being of complete fluidity who warps in and out of being male/female, choosing whether or not its sides are real, etc.

you look down at normies for seeking solace in a tribe while at the same time living inside of your own asshole of uniqueness. "you must learn to accept your body because..." get the fuck out you brainlet cunt, I am so tired of sophistry on Veeky Forums I could puke

>living inside of your own asshole of uniqueness.
I don't think about it much. I'm just a machine that has genuinely tried to understand itself, and has watched the world from many perspectives. I'm a realist, and when you've been so many people and searched for a "true self", and found little, it occurs that perhaps you're simply empty inside. Something that has been broken, stripped down, and rebuilt enough times that truth is all that remains in your value system. I have very little ego. It just is.

>not identifying with a group does not make you superior
This is not the case. If you view the state changes in any complex system mechanically, it becomes very clear that humans are easily susceptible to being controlled within loose, but highly vertical control structures. This is the basis of applied crowd psychology, and the age old, time honored method of governance: divide and conquer. Once you get people divided up, or plot out their social circles, it's just a matter of drip feeding to change their intra-relations, and thus how they will interact with other groups. Which controls drift in the most macro states.

People who are looking to fit, generally, are easy to control. Control does not necessarily refer to an entity either, sometimes it's just natural human patterns that consistently yield the same garbage results across history. Some people, given enough rope, are almost sure to eventually hang themselves.

Just how it works. Shooting the messenger doesn't change a thing. I don't make the rules.

researchgate.net/publication/14365362_The_successful_treatment_of_a_gender_dysphoric_patient_with_Pimozide/amp

Many such cases. It's a mental illness, stop trolling.

It says in cases of "doubtful dysphoria," meaning I presume they didn't think the the man had genuine dysphoria.

this sounds more like a delusion than anything else. correct me if i'm wrong, but delusions are not usually treated by reinforcing the delusional state and making everyone else play along.

Ok. Honestly these are just what I thought were oddities in my experience that might account for why I felt so uncomfortable in my body. But in truth I don't know. Perhaps they aren't odd or perhaps I'm misinterpreting them. It's difficult to know because I don't know what it feels like to be anyone but myself. So I can't know my own experiences because that requires knowing them my contrast to other people's experiences, and I don't have direct access to those. But what I do know is that a) I was miserable as a male b) I was deeply aroused by sex with masculine straight men and c) that I'd be very pretty if I took hormones. The upshot is that I'm happy, I have plenty of great sex with men I'm genuinely attracted to, and I'm pretty and people treat me better now. I know I'm homosexual and always will be. And I'm not offended by being thought of that way. I just want people to be kind and respectful. And I want legal protection. When you say "delusion" I don't think I understand what you mean. And I don't suspect it's at all applicable in this case. Probably the best way to think of this is that I wanted straight men, men that love femininity, female body type, and to take the purely penetrating role in bed. I'm sexually submissive. And it blows my mind having sex with a man that loves dominating me. That is, if you will, a "real man." That's it. Any "oddities" in my experience are too difficult to sort through and classify, interpret etc. I'm not a phenomenologist. I just wanted the best possible sex I could get. That's the honest truth. I'm a sexual being like everyone else. You love fucking girls right? I mean for straight guys it's a huge drive. And when no girls will fuck them, they get very frustrated, even murderous. Well it's like that. Sexuality is very very powerful. And it's the only thing that mattered to me. Not some idea that I'm a female "on the inside." People will do a lot because of sexuality. Straight or gay....

Just take T. Get a huge clit and jerk it of. Squirt to get ejaculation. Easy. Look up ftm porn.

YOU can't do shit, unless you have therapeutical skills

But that's wrong. Being a human makes you qualified to communicate with other humans.

not necessarily in a helpful way
I admit I just assumed the helping part

Kek. Yes, what I'm saying is that being qualified in a pseudoscience isn't something to brag about.

You don't have to get any more comprehensive than pic related.

It does not matter whether it's a mental illness in itself (spoiler: it is) but that the inability to reconcile your biological sex with what you feel like leads to a psychological crisis.

t. read some booklet called the dsm-5

Talking to someone unstable without making everything worse is not so easy

>When you say "delusion" I don't think I understand what you mean.

you are male and were worried about getting pregnant from giving a blowjob. no offense, but that's pretty out there.

This is my first reply to this thread.

Your replies clearly point to a cognitive dissonance.

If you at the time of cum-in-mouth hadn't had any sexual education, you would not have had any reason to believe that ejaculation (which you wouldn't know about unless you'd already experienced it first-hand or seen someone else experience it) in any location or into any orifice would cause pregnancy.

If you at the time of cum-in-mouth had had sexual education, you would have been taught that males have penises and balls, and girls have vaginas. You would also have learned that pregnancies are caused by a penis ejaculating into a vagina.

In either case, you had no rational reason to believe that you could be pregnant, so either you'd have to be retarded (unlikely as judged by your replies), or you have a cognitive dissonance/mental illness (body dysmorphia).

Do you at this point think that you had a mental illness? Do you at this point think that you still have a mental illness? I'm not interesting in debating the definition of 'mental illness', my question is more along the lines of whether or not you think you could have avoided transitioning with proper education/medical treatment/therapy.

I know. That's why I thought it was an oddity, and pertinent. But I think it's a body perception error, since all my oddities center around my sex. I don't have Russians put listening devices in my teeth kind of delusions. And I'm reality orientated for the most part. And I recognize I'm male.

whatever. as long as i don't have to see your junk on /b/ every day....

No did you see my post ? That would involve changing my sexuality. You can't do that realistically

>mental illness
Doesn't the medical definition of it have something to do with the fact if the condition is harmful either to the person themselves, others, or their future prospects?

If we went by that definition then whether transgenderism is a mental illness or not would depend on the culture they live in.