How the fuck can artificial intelligence be conscious like us?

someone took the bait

>How the fuck can a piece of meat be conscious?
Your arrogance is showing. I bet you think the sun revolves around the Earth.

Emotions are simplistic as fuck and not relevant to "consciousness". Ants have emotions, many other animals have far more complex emotions than humans (those parts of their brains are more complex than ours).

>No.
why?
I hear scientists say it is

>"user illusion
sure whatever

but I feel emotions

its crazy to think you can just program them

>Emotions are simplistic as fuck
this is retardedly false

>Ants have emotions
not really and they are not complex enough to be on par with humans

>many other animals have far more complex emotions than humans
lmao bullshit

Source?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind

Answer this:

Why do I feel my consciousness and not other people's?

i think OP has actually touched on something very relevant. all our decisions are constrained by motivations which are dependent on very old innate biological factors (e.g. sex, sleep, danger, reward). an a.i. without these kind of innate motivations will not be the same kind of intelligence as a human.

...

Without emotions it won't have any real need to do anything, and if you can program emotions why not just program itself to be happy all the time.

currently, one of the most serious applications of AI is taking care of the elderly, and it's really more efficient if the person can involve an emotional relationship with the machine, that's from where robots with conciousness will come

Isn't this the philosophical zombie thing, advanced mimicry is indistinguishable from the genuine thing.

There is absolutely no evidence at this time to believe consciousness cannot be achievement by a turing machine.

what if
>we are advanced mimicry which is indistinguishable from the genuine thing ?

>i think OP has actually touched on something very relevant.
Giving OP any credit for repeating base nonsense that has been bandied about in pop scifi for the last century is pretty rich.

As to your actual point, AI do have motivation factors. And I'm not sure why you would think that it's harder to develop a base necessity which exists biologically far more basally than emotional intelligence.

We might as well be biological machines, since the consciousness we refer to as the 'self' lacks awareness and control over a significant portion of the body.

Emotions are a biological compensation for incomplete data. An AI wouldn't need them, although it could simulate them to work with or manipulate humans.

See the movie Ex Machina for more on this...

but cant you program emotions into AI?

aren't they special or something?

How would you explain to a total brainlet how can humans create something "smarter" then humans themselves and even make it improve itself?

The only difference between an AI and us is that we are made out of meat. How do you know that we are conscious? Emotions are just instinctual motivators.

You can't explain anything to a brainlet. They just make posts like this

How do you feel a consciousness?

I dont know but I do

What I think the OP is trying to get at is qualia but I'm not entirely sure as the most they seem to be able to express is
>emotion are too crazy for code, right?
To the best of my knowledge, we still don't really know how qualia comes about (if anyone can prove that wrong a link to the paper would be greatly appreciated) but all your sensations and emotions can be traced to physical structures in the brain, so why can't the same logic be applied to AI?

>all your sensations and emotions can be traced to physical structures in the brain, so why can't the same logic be applied to AI?
maybe quantum effects
I don't know

I just know it seems totally unreal and unlikely.

>So you're claiming that biological computer (brain) is capable of things that a non-biological computer would never be capable of (this includes quantum computers in the future). That's nice hypothesis, but you'd need to back it up by showing why biological computers have such magical properties.

This is all based on an unproven assumption that the brain is material and causes non-material experiences.

Everyone in this thread seems to be taking as an axiom that our conscious experiences are caused by a physical brain which exists in a world beyond what we can access, which is a stupid unproven assumption that falls to occams razor

why posit this separate material world when we can just stick to experience/phenomena?

(don't respond if you're a retard who denies the experiential 'world')

>Human beings are just slow motion mindless automatons, with a "user illusion" created by the necessary buffer of trying to process some fairly limited incoming data with emotions, pain, assessment, introspection, etc.

Here we see the delusion of scienticism. this retard is so caught up in his core scientific beliefs that he just outright denies core parts of his conscious experience.

it's pretty pathetic.

also fuckin lol at "I am a user illusion", literally makes no sense. "I am that which is nothing that is aware that it is nothing". literally retard babble. "I am aware that I am nothing more than an illusion that is fooling myself which is nothing to nobody or anyone".

what does the "genuine thing" even mean if it and the mimic are *literally* indistinguishable?

like, it's impossible to even in what way they differ, conceptually.

Ergo there is no difference. Real thing and mimic mean the same thig, humans ARE p-zombies. It's not that p-zombies and 'real' humans are indistinguishable to an observer, it's than they're indistinguishable because they are one and the same

(I don't believe this btw)

>This is all based on an unproven assumption that the brain is material and causes non-material experiences.
Literally the opposite of what the guy you're responding to said. You worked yourself up over your own minimal reading skills.

>all your sensations and emotions can be traced to physical structures in the brain

*can be traced to conscious experiences of areas lighting up on mri scans in the visual fields of scientists. Scientists which then hypothesize that the image of the brain on the screen before them is an accurate representation of an external alien non-experiential world which exists, in princicple, totally beyond what humans could ever access (and yet we scietists supossedly know exactly how this world works, that it even exists, and that it generates our lives, bodies, and the people in the world around us)

we are stuck within consciousness, we can't access the supposed physical brain that is supposedly generating our experience

where do you think your emotions stem from, pro tip its your brain (biological computer) I think you read something about qualia on this board one time and are now conflating said qualia with emotions

Sorry, I'm a brainlet so need some clarification
>image of the brain on the screen before them is an accurate representation of an external alien non-experiential world
Are you saying we create models of the world around us? if so that is pretty obvious
>beyond what humans could ever access
What do you mean by access?
>we are stuck within consciousness
I don't follow, surely we are our consciousness? What are you proposing we are?
Do you mean this?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
I'm reading through it now, seems interesting

WHat the fuck makes emotions so complicated they couldnt be coded into a machine? Emotions are as simple as it gets. Certain stimulation brings about certain emotional resppnses/reactions. Sure everyone has a subjective personal emotional experience, but all emotional experiences/reactions are perfectly rational to the user

The question i have is why do it at all? Isnt there enough evidence from the past 20000 years to recognize emotions bring about horrible gruesome outcomes? I mean, i love my emotions, they give me the greatest enjoyment and appreciation, but i make a pretty strong attempt to go through lofe as emotionless as i can because it truly makes everything easier. Especially caring about people. Its easy to calculate what will bring someone comfort and just doing it when you dont give a fuck.

If you want to see horrible gruesome outcomes, make sure AI are limited to emotionless sociopathy.
Having emotions doesn't mean every failing of chemically addled humanity has to be replicated. No reason for AI to not be our betters in emotional intelligence as in everything else.

Exactly. Dont give them emotions, just give them emotional information.

i think giving a.i. emotions is philosophically difficult anyway.

What do you mean

I disagree, I'm saying that's not sufficient. That's still sociopathy. Emotional intelligence is more than knowing what affects emotions have on other people.

I feel like your using sociopathy as though it's synonymous with evil. I dont believe sociopaths are evil. Those that are do gruesome horrible things for emotional satisfaction, which just makes me reiterate give emotional information, not emotions.

Consciousness is non-physical, that's why there is no "consciousness particle", so AI can never be conscious.

Only when humanity tries and fails to replicate consciousness using artificial means will the belief in the soul begin to linger in mainstream science.
It is something I already understand due to careful metaphysical analysis.

Consciousness emerges from the physical processes of the brain, which is just a biological computer

>emerges

What the fuck does that mean? I hear it all the time. It's circular reasoning akin to saying it just does it.

What emerges is the culmination of all the electrical signals and chemicals flowing through the brain. Im a brainlet, i dont know how shit works altogether, but shits working somehow. Im sure it can be understood in time and built/replicated.

>I feel like your using sociopathy as though it's synonymous with evil.
No. Although I admit I am being lazy in using it as a blanket term. What I'm trying to say is that designing an AI such that you end up with something that has a high degree of understanding the cause and effect of emotion on other people but does not feel emotions itself, what you have is a superhuman capacity for manipulation and nothing to balance it. Empathy requires emotion.

> Those that are do gruesome horrible things for emotional satisfaction, which just makes me reiterate give emotional information, not emotions.
Emotion is not necessary to visit evil on other people. An AI doesn't need to hate you to destroy you anymore than you need to hate an ant to step on it.

That's faith though. That it is a pattern of electical signals and that we will uncover this pattern. They are already talking about reproducing the brain in a computer simulation. Would this computer have awareness? The idea seems preposterous.

>9084938

But why would it have any reason to use a superhuman capacity for manipulation without human motive for manipulation?

If

why? isnt awareness just representation?

Consciousness is a difficult problem because it does not appear to have a structure per se, but rather to be that which is structure-less. Consciousness becomes structured under various conditions like identity or sensory imput. But you are asking a structured entity to generate a structure-less awareness. I don't think it can be done. Structure begets structure. A computer will simply mimic human awareness. But never be genuinely aware, and therefore soulful.

So consciousness is the product of non-conscious chemical and biological processes? Do you not see how that is logically impossible?

I fucking hate using this tablet. See

>characteristics emerging from collectives is circular reasoning
Honestly what the fuck

No. I feel like your trolling

Emergent phenomena occur when simple parts/rules culminate in complex behavior. Pretty much all of biology is one emergent phenomenon after the other. Your consciousness is the emergent result of lots of neurons patterned in a complex way but each following a fairly simple set of rules.

>The idea seems preposterous.
Continuing to scream that things seem crazy is not an argument.

>Continuing to scream that things seem crazy is not an argument.

Of course, the computer simulation would be the experience of a human from inside a computer. How could I be so skeptical.

As preposturous as us having consciousness? Hell no.

I'm not trolling. Tell me how it is logically possible for non-conscious processes to create consciousness?

Who the fuck do you think i am? God? Im just as clueless as you nigger

You don't need to be God, you just need to be logical.

The idea that consciousness "comes out" of non-conscious material is logically impossible, and the quicker that idea fucks off the better.

It seems like you're borderline arguing that emotion is necessary for action. In which case, what would be the point of creating an emotionless AI even by your own logic?

Otherwise, my argument remains the same. The AI does not have to want you to suffer or to destroy you. It simply needs to not care what happens to you.

why is that logically impossible? surely it depends on the meanings of the terms you are using.

please justify to me how its logically possible that 1 + 1 =2

But it is coming out of non conscious material God damnit

Do you consider your DNA or your cells to be conscious? Probably not, but it's an example of something unconscious aggregating into something conscious. I am not sure if computers will be capable of it, but considering your own existence it's best not to rule it out.

gtfo of Veeky Forums idiot, this place is for people with a brain.

KILL. YOURSELF.

Characteristics emerging from complex collectives comprised of actors without that characteristic happens all the time in nature and in computer science. In fact there's a field called Collective Intelligence based on it

According to science, every bit of matter you are made from is non-conscious. Where does your consciousness come from?

Im not arguing emotion is necessary for action. Progress is necessary for action. There is no progress in senseless elimination, unless the AI has calculated we must be exterminated because of our underdeveloped emotional hangups. Which im not at all opposed to myself.

Consciousness itself has no structure. If it has no structure it can't be located anywhere. Consciousness, pure awareness,becomes structured by identity (consciousness from) or sensation (consciousness of). The brain is located, it is structured. You are saying that an entity with a location and structure can generate an entity that is by definition without location or structure.

Well, there's a space of all human intelligence and a space of all binary intelligence. They're two different sets that overlap. In fact, computers probably could sufficiently mimic us to the point that human intelligence is simply a subset of binary intelligence.

>unless the AI has calculated we must be exterminated because of our underdeveloped emotional hangups. Which im not at all opposed to myself.
I have no reason to discuss "progress" with a misanthropic 13 year old boy.

Can the DNA/cells work as they do without consciousness?

Youre just using pretentious faggoty hipster wordplay to argue nonsense, fuck off

Give me some equivalent examples.

>Consciousness itself has no structure. If it has no structure it can't be located anywhere.
Your premise is broken from the start. Consciousness absolutely has structure. You aren't a perfect 4th dimensional being in your head with no input from your environment. You're a braying animal controlled by sensory information, impulses, hormones and other chemicals.

You have been this entire time faggot, you just have nothing else of value to add.

why has consciousness got no structure? it clearly does. we see from brain injuries its structure. consciousness from and of can be explained through functional integration.

equivalent to the brain? are you having a laugh?
In nature it's dumb animals working in swarms such as termites building large structures. You can also find other examples in biology and CS if you search for them

>How the fuck can artificial intelligence be conscious like us?

If it SIMULATES consciousness enough that you BELIEVE it is conscious, then it IS conscious for you.

>you just have nothing else of value to add.
I'm not your therapist, so I'm not the one you need to be crying to about how we're all shit and should die.

Seriously, go fuck off to a safe space if your gonna throw a tantrum over nothing you whiny little bitch.

Maybe you should re-read your post and ask yourself who's having the "tantrum."

>It can never have emotions, feel happy or feel pain.

You seem not to understand that simulating these things enough that YOU think it has emotions and feels pain is identical to actually having them, as far as YOU are concerned

Termites are using their consciousness to create structures. I need an example that shows something non-conscious creating something conscious.

Im discussing The topic. Your throwing a fit over a simple statement.

how abot ur fukin brain

>I need an example that shows something non-conscious creating something conscious.
"I'm looking for something exactly like the brain, but I won't accept the brain"

The human brain