What's so bad about hedonism?

Y'all know there is a happy medium between these options, right?

There is the redpill or there are subversive lies.

>Can a society function if everyone in it is a fireman? Nope, hence becoming a fireman is retarded.

That's some grade-A reasoning there champ.

Any life style that is adverse to suffering is a bad one. You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship. Hedonists are cowards.

>You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship
>being this ideologically cucked

explain to me how I'm wrong

it's anti-human

it goes against the chance mutation of our species: will

we should live like irrational romantics, not indulgent lethargic blobs

I'm not disagreeing with you, but stop using y'all

Thread is finished here.

I'm never happy, so I don't want anyone else to be

>implying hedonists are truly happy

This is what I tell myself. That or "they're happy, but they'll never be content.

>Any life style that is adverse to suffering is a bad one. You can only grow and strengthen yourself by experiencing misery and hardship. Hedonists are cowards.

Pure ressentiment, reeks of lower-class upbringing and flagellating self-hatred.

Read Nozick's "Experience Machine".

Utopia. Can't come quick enough

My ideal life is one of long periods of hard work broken up by short segments of extreme self-indulgence

>"""""truly""""" happy

Well neither are the non-hedonists, and the hedonists seem to be having a much better time.

I wonder how you reached that conclusion... I have no self-hatred and feel no resentment towards life or anyone.

Mine too. The only good option.

How can YOU know how YOU feel?

Le happy medium man

how can YOU know how I feel?

>Le implying the middle option is superior is sometimes a fallacy, so I'll pretend the middle option is always inferior man

How can I know how YOU feel?

>comparing a job with philosophical ideology
That's some grade-A reasoning there champ.

The goal of ethical philosophy (e.g., categorical imperative) is to work out how to live, user. It is easily BTFO by moral relativity. Get over it and embrace character morality.

>Can a society function if everyone in it is a hedonist?
And what exactly do you think America is, user? Sure a small minority cling to religion but everyone else is just here to have a good time.

You could get it now by killing yourself.

This orgasmic gif really made me think.
Also, is that Jeff Buckley?

The categorical imperative is enforced by natural selection.

In its ideal it was meant to. At the time it was the goal of ethical philosophy to discover a universal law of morality, similar to physics, biology, etc.

But it doesn't exist, because unlike physics and biology, morality is a product of the human mind and therefore its configuration is relative to each human organism.

In other words, you don't know about chaos theory and what an attractor is.

A herd: a collection of species where the congregation reduces the constraints of survival by changing the environment, but replaces them with the constraints of the herd.

A Society: a symbiotic relationship where the collective action is greater than the sum of individual action as long as the action is managed (corroboration) and the benefits are shared (cooperative agreement).

Those who treat society like a herd are banished.

Hedonism also violate time travel paradox. You could never be selfish if you didn't enjoy the benefits of the society.

Any attempts to justify selfish behavior is rhetorical.

You didn't build this.

Explain how chaos theory refutes his point. I hope you don't pretend that chaotic systems aren't determined and aren't theoretically predictable.

Teleology, like causation, is a leap of faith, user.

I like your point a lot.

deus valt amirite

The point is that morality has to have an end state because it evolves according to a set of rules.

Can you elaborate? This is an interesting point

Heh yeah this for sure. Speaking of which does this board of eternal virgins even realize that almost all stoic or austere philosophers lived inside of cultures that were also mostly hedonistic? The only reason why normies even act like they go along with this stuff is so they feel better about fucking around on their wife/husband/etc. Or have some other guilt complex. It's all a sham no large group of humans has ever been sexually austere just ask the Catholic Church.

Try it. It's very apparent after a while. And the experience of your reflection upon it isn't something I can really convince you of because it will sound trite.

Who's this semen demon?

My girlfriend. Stop looking at her.

You'll end up discontented and hanging from your ceiling.

Hedonism like with anything needs to be done in moderation. Things stop being pleasurable of those pleasures are the only things you experience, even sex and drugs
>said by the "superior" white man who had accomplished nothing in his life

>Deliberately seeking out to maximise pleasure actually interferes with experiencing pleasure. It's too self-aware.

Ok, instead of Absolute Hardcore Hedonism, how about 'towards the hedonistic side of things'

>art deals with emotions
>women (according to redpills) are extremely emotional
>implying they aren't perfectly suited to artistic pursuits while sensible stoic men aren't perfectly suited to meticulous boring housework

>Any attempts to justify selfish behavior is rhetorical.
living at all is selfish?

Le only two options man.

Trying to get sex too much ruins sex and makes it boring

Experiencing sex with some1 you love feels better and doesnt burn out as easily as the hedonist's sex methods

Hedonism is unsustainable

>Observes change
>it must be going somewhere specific
>because I said so, that's why

Enjoy what you will, but don't let it dictate your life.

It promotes moral degeneration and personal decay

It leaves out intellectual fulfillment

Not if that's what you enjoy, user.

Yes, if you let it take over your well being.

It is kind of a basic need, so it's not a matter of preference. There is a reason why people don't just plug a cable into their pleasure center and stimulate it constantly for never-ending pleasure, or just become hooked to heroin on purpose for constant trips.

Women are fucking scary.

But 2 is fundamentally more hedonistic than 1, as you're seeking out deeper and more profound pleasure. 1 is just being shortsighted and greedy.

Drugs are bad, m'kay?

A hedonist's highest value is pleasure, and he is constantly seeking it. 1 is typical hedonist behaviour, the person is constantly trying to have sex. 2 never implies that the person is seeing sex as a goal.

This is my problem with hedonism, if you take it to broadly mean anything you enjoy, rather than just physical pleasures like sex and drugs, it loses all meaning.

Claiming to have a philosophy of "doing things you like" is retarded, because it presupposes you have a bunch of different values that cause you to like those things anyway.

In my experience it reduces the quality of an individual in every way. Namely: lesser self-discipline, lesser experiences, lesser intelligence, lesser aptitude, less able to remove or partially remove oneself from their perspective; the list goes on. Overall you get a disgusting, useless creature that is a slave to pleasure and habit who can't think outside of those two things.

Then again, those things aren't actually bad when you take a step back. Nothing has objective worth or meaning, so if a hedonist dies somewhat happy or fulfilled, from their perspective. I'd say they had a better life than most of us.

It's bad if you have a cohesive goal or viewpoint of the world because it isn't really conducive to achieving it. Like if you wanted humanity to stretch across the universe and dominate in wonderful art and technology grandeur - hedonism isn't conducive to making that happen, rather it regresses it.

Also I'm speaking of hedonism as in full-on, obsessive all-pleasure no holding back, type thing. Not "well I like gardening, so I'm going to quit my depressive but high-pay job so I can spend more time doing that". Which as others have mentioned, makes hedonism barely a thing, it's so general and retarded.

Hedonism is bad because I don't have the money or looks to properly participate in it

Men feel emotions deeper than women, it's just that women are disgusted at the sight of a non-robotic "sensitive" man.

Women have savage instincts and the preservation of art is dependent on them being controlled.

Without water you starve.
With some water you live.
With a lot of water you shower.
With too much water you drown.

Hedonism is fine until you become a victim of pleasure, which is why hedonism is considered disgusting in hindsight.

Incase you don't appreciate theory:
Aids, lung cancer, stds, rape, drug abuse, and greed are all examples of the fine line between showering and drowning. Pretty disgusting eh?

All of the above could be easily avoided, but for 'some' reason...

Tldr: dont do drugs, kids

Why doesn't anyone in this thread understand that hedonism is something inescapable to any living creature and therefore shouldn't ever be discussed. If you're alive you are acting in your own self-interest to maximize your happiness/pleasure/comfort and therefore you're hedonistic

Everyone acts in their own self-interest, that is true. But that can take way more forms than just 'happiness/pleasure/comfort'. A hedonist only seeks pleasure.

happiness and comfort are forms of pleasure

wait what i meant to reply is "thats not true"

You can define every positive experience as 'pleasure', but then the hedonist label becomes meaningless because all other life-style ideologies are synonym with hedonism.

okay you're right but now I'm confused because what I said was technically true in my opinion, so that means all life-style ideologies are a synonym?

I don't like playing these stupid language games, however this specific case warrants it:

what the hell is "hedonism" in the first place?

Any discussion on "hedonism" is about ideology and nothing more. It is always linked to moral propositions "do not enjoy too much". It is about controlling your mind: telling you how to act, telling you how to think.

I have no interest in mind control games, let those who are foolish enough to fall for them, to fall for them.

>so that means all life-style ideologies are a synonym?
No, but all life-style ideologies seek positive experiences, so by your definition they would all be sub-forms of hedonism. Your definition of hedonism is useless.

"A hedonist strives to maximize net pleasure (pleasure minus pain)." says wikipedia. Let's assume that's true.
Maximizing pleasure is a completely different concept, than the trying to achieve positive experiences. Most people who aren't hedonists differentiate between different positive experiences. Like maximizing your knowledge is the goal of some, but that's way harder to achieve than just pumping pleasure drugs in your body. Those people aren't hedonists, still they are acting in their own self-interest.

Would you guys label Epicurus as a hedonist ? I know some people argue that he's eudemonist yet not hedonist, since he claims that every pleasure should not be pursued. However he states clearly that everything that brings pleasure is good, even if you better not choose it. So, I don't see what's wrong with labeling Epicurus as a hedonist. And it also implies that it's still possible to discard several pleasures, while still being a hedonist. Amirite ?

Because it makes you go *BRAAPPPPPPPPPFFFFFFF*

You tend to burn out and end up a confused wreck who's expended all their resources too soon and is left with nothing.

The homeless count many "hedonists" amongst their ranks.

But it does imply that 2 is also seeking pleasure, just a more profound, longer lasting version of it. Since hedonism is
pleasure seeking by definition, that makes 2 a smarter hedonist than 1, but a hedonist nonetheless

I can't find girls to have sex 24/7
That's the problem

death grips

Try the red pill, art is degenerate and liberal.

i want to sniff her buttcheeks

Try backpage bruh

I lost hahahahah

Wait, how did the sister become a cousin?

Through hedonism, my man.

I believe the difference between identifying someone as an hedonist or not stands in whether they rely on short or long term pleasure seeking, respectfully
And short term is bad because of how the brain handles pleasure

...

God I want to have sex.

Someone, anyone please fuck me. My god look at that ass, I just want to live in it.

You're undesirable, specially with that attitude.