Why are you not taking psychedelics, Veeky Forums ? Are you scared of discovering the full potential of your mind ?

Why are you not taking psychedelics, Veeky Forums ? Are you scared of discovering the full potential of your mind ?

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jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/210962
drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mdma-ecstasy-abuse/what-does-mdma-do-to-brain
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

I'm scared of developing Schizophrenia, taking LSD and other psychedelic substances is correlated with an increased risk of Schizophrenia

>dies from wondering into traffic

>dies from wondering about existence

Sorry I'm not retarded enough to do drugs

I've abused every psychedelic under the sun and can say with full confidence that the "le epiphany" meme is nothing short of absolute balonie. There is nothing spiritual to be gained. It's all nonsense written by the drug-addled mind of an addict

and yet you're on sci?

HE DOESNT WANT THE SECRET GETTING OUT

>Are you scared of discovering the full potential of your mind ?


it's a materialist still claim that you reach secrets through drugs episode

I've been thinking about it, I'm allured by the so-called 'realisation' and 'epiphany' rhetoric going round - I just don't know. On the one hand I want to be enlightened in a way only a psychedelic substance will, but ego death and the like isn't very useful for everyday life - you need to retain ego and individualism otherwise you won't survive in this day and age.

Also I've heard stories about Kundalini and stuff making people very jittery, very irritable, and basically going half-insane from the stuff they've experienced which leads me to believe that all this 'higher power' experience is just confirmation-bias - you only experience a deity because you deeply want to and your brain imagines it for you which is then convoluted as a sort-of enlightening episode...

Want my advice? If you want to be 'enlightened' and experience a form of ego death, bring down the walls surrounding ego, feel in touch with everything and everyone... take MDMA. I've been taking it irregularly (couple months apart) for about 2 years now, and feel like the jigsaw puzzles of existence and life fall into each other in beautiful and logical ways which I just didn't fathom before.

no it isnt...

mdma is one of the few drugs proven to give you brain damage and effect your cognition negatively with regular use. idiot.

Give me the proof instead of groundless shittalk on an internet forum faggot.

If trips you will get cancer in 10 years.

Trips you livestream your suicide

Yes it is...

Using psychedelic substances will not make you batshit insane but if you're predisposed to mental illnesses like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, depression, etc. it can trigger a first episode.

trips I make a thread on b of me shiving a pickle into my sister

I did back in the day. Am fourty yrs old now. Little too old for that shit but I am one of those people that say
>yeah it did change me

I"ll never forget the experiences I had and the real fundamental things I realized while on it. I don't think everyone should try it, I don't think everyone can handle it.

But if a person can handle it they should try it at least once.

Because I don't believe in all spiritualism prevalent in drug culture.

You get fucked up and that's it. You're not "self-improving", gaining "deeper understanding of yourself" and so forth. No, you're literally getting fucked up, no-more-no-less.

not really, weed is far more dangourous for both triggering psychosis and exacerbating the negative symptoms of schizophrenia. I have schizoid personality disorder and i have heavily used psychedelics, nothing but positives besides the leftover visuals. There isn't a real risk with psychedelics unless you are anxious or psychotic already.
I find that psychedelics connect me to my experience instead of my usual mind-body detachment. I literally take psychedelics because i feel like it is the only effective chemical treatment for the schizm i fall into.
Enriched my life where marijuana fucks it up.

It that why psychedelic assisted therapies are studied once again for their benefits in treating addiction, depression, PTSD and other disorders?

The people who want to "open their minds" are those who emphatically do not need it.

That's not really comparable because the doses of psychedelics used in clinical trials are way too small to trip from and taken far more frequently than an LSD user would (or could) use the drug

>Why are you not taking psychedelics, Veeky Forums ?

>I am
(not recreationally (often) mostly for art and musing)
generally high dose LSD at least once a month (last weekend in fact)

used to sell and enjoy ketamine almost daily but there is only so far it can take you and always to the same place.

salvia (smoked) is a meme. It is better to chew and have a think. Smoking it gets you nowhere but confused for about a minute.

recently ordered some 1p-lsd (as legalish) to compare but not gotten around to trying it yet as still have the real deal in good supply

I have smoked DMT about half a dozen times but it is hard to find near me (tempted to start making my own as it is a simple process)

generally on the daily (not technically psychedelic) i just have a couple of joints and opium coffee

any scare stories you hear about (especially lsd) psychedelics are lies. Never in over twenty years have I even had a "bad trip" (closest was getting confused and had to be distracted)

ego death is terrifying but equally enlightening and only happens at high doses but I believe people are missing out as it was one of my few significant moments (psychologically) in life.

sorry for the word soup. Pretty tired

how does it unlock a full potential? I thought psychedelics merely intensify particular parts of the brain. That won't lead to any revelation regarding any truth.

>dies from listening to Tool

is that true? i dont think thats true.. and i can prove it. but i want you to prove your statement first to uncover your idiocy.

If you don't have direct knowledge of your phenomenal experience (which many philosophers and neuroscientists believe is the case) then psychedelics will be useless in reaching the full potential of your mind. Nothing that happens while under its influence will have any apparent truth. You'd have a better chance at understanding the potential of your own mind using adderall and studying more.

show proof... this is ltierally an anecdote rumour. most people say this without even remembering where they heard it from. do you?

interesting regression analysis has shown that people that do psychedelics often have more mental illness than the rest of the general population but that this illness isnt related to psychedelics statistically.

It won't unlock anything outside of yourself. Psychedelics are pathological deconditioners. That is all. Hippies love to make them all mystic because muh consciousness is god and anything science hasn't quite labeled confirmed muh biases about spirit.

>doses of psychedelics used in clinical trials are way too small to trip from

they use fully active doses, everything else would be stupid

example:
jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/210962

dose psilocybin: 30mg
a strongly psychoactive dose (threshold is at around 10mg)

also they usually make very few sessions and observe long lasting positive effects from it

drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mdma-ecstasy-abuse/what-does-mdma-do-to-brain

fuck off faggot.

It changes your perception of the world, I've only tried mushrooms though. With mushrooms it feels like the world is a painting. Everything looks perfect like it was man made, I mean the grass and the trees. Animal's would stare at you differently or it seems that way. It also makes thinking more clear and music (especially songs that have an echo in them) sound better.

Which ways are that? Also don't you presuppose a lot by positing an "ego" that has the possibility of dying? I feel like threads like these overlook centuries of identity debate and interpret their trips based off antiquated theories of the self. That's another thing. Your trip will intensify a particular web of beliefs you have prior and when coming down you'll interpret your phenomenal experience (which you don't have direct knowledge of!! It's like interpreting another mind!) within the confines of an already established personal language game (or set of beliefs). This just seems so messy and unscientific, I can't believe I'm reading these responses on a science board. It reminds me of high school.

Thank you. This is the response I was hoping to receive.

Also at some moments it feels like real life syncs with the music if that makes sense

>Psychedelics made me experience ego death
>Made me experience ego death
>Me
>ego death

Don't listen to hippies. Psychedelics are great for forcing you to examine the your ideas and decisions at a level you normally wouldn't. That is all. Don't do them often and don't make them out into something they're not.

one mans (society) "illness" is maybe just seeing through the bullshit and the realization nothing will change

once you pull back the veil it cannot be undone; only managed

what's your point. you haven't explicitely related what you've said to my post other than the illness quote.

I've done LSD around 10 times, highest dose 4 tabs, and I can confirm that you will not unlock some "higher knowledge" that you never had before. That being said, psychedelics do allow you to look at your own life in a different way than you had previously, and that can actually make them very beneficial for some people. I'm pretty skeptical whenever I hear people say
But I think there is something to be said about how taking drugs that cause you to hallucinate can really make you see that your brain crafts you visual experience. What I am trying to say is that you can kind of understand the power of the brain, and the way it interprets the outside world.

AFAIK the animal studies that found neurotoxicity were using insanely high doses daily for a few weeks.

If reasonable consumption of pure MDMA results in cognitive damage is still debated.

skeptical when I hear people say they've been enlightened sorry

I also thought this until I took 3 tabs of lsd, jumped of a 2 story balcony, busted through the pool bird cage, and luckily fell into the pool. Almost forgot to mention that I was completely naked in front of friend's parents throughout the whole experience. Fractured my nose and had to get stitches on my face. But who knows maybe I secretly just hate myself and don't know it and lsd showed me that which made me try to kill myself.

>an LSD user would (or could) use the drug
newfag

I've done hundreds and hundreds of doses hits whatevers of acid, mushrooms, salvia, mdma. The feeling can be huge, surprisingly intense, unmentionable, incredible, scary as fuck, long lasting, etc. I'm over it and haven't done anything in a few years, though I'm game to try again every once in a while but the experience is always one of lots of laughs but ultimately I simply wait for it to wear off and for my body to allow me to sleep. I don't understand shit, neither do you, or anyone else reading. We all like to pretend we are special or extra or whatever, some are private of this while others can seriously cool it down with the condescending attitude. I waver between feeling lost and found day by day. Maybe even a bit more isolated than before because I've distanced myself in subtle ways by doing so much but in other ways I feel a stronger connection to everyone around me and yet here I am always getting older. I don't think anyone gives a shit about what I can contribute to the human condition, if I even knew how, which I don't though sometimes I get swept up in daydreams about my potential. I wish psychedelics could cure all our evils but I don't think the problems are that simple. You're new, it will pass. Be good.

I take them purely objectively. For all intents and purposes I am atheist but that takes nothing away from the experience. If anything it makes it more insightful because you don't attribute anything to a higher power and more just an aid to (what I call) thinking sideways.

I have met a few people that get "god complex" and think they are either a god or in tube with one but I think that takes away from it as a whole.

It does cause damage to your heart even in conventional doses.

ego death is a very real thing
happened the first time i ever tripped. I was just fucking around with no idea who i was. Ive also had ego boundaries erode to the point where i could not tell the difference between me and the rest of the living world. A lot of that has to do with me studying ecology, but still it has more or less stuck with me. Ego boundaries and our conception of self are arbitrarily drawn by our experience and do not represent an ontological truth. Its easy for illusory abstractions like that to disappear when shown in a new light.
ive grasped at deep ecology most of my life but i have also had mystical experiences on psychedelics, nothing mysterious about it to me. Its like symbolic synthestasia, symbolic knowledge is experienced directly through perception, all the magic you are so naively denying is real and instigated through semiotic mechanisms.
Dont get caught up in subjective interpretations, a galseian jew wandering around the desert had a mystical experience and saw he was god. I ate 10 g of mushrooms and saw i was life. There is a cause that exists independent of the effects which are left open to interpretation
intrresting what you say, once i saw eco-evolutionary dynamics and trophic interactions manifest as glowing green networks and previous landscapes layered on top of my vision. All things that were deducible to me from a scientifically informed reference, abstractions supervening on my perception.
>you will not unlock some "higher knowledge" that you never had before.
nothing more than what you know.

theres imaging studies though and human ones on cognition. only correlational though but it still means somethings giving these knuckleheads retardedness syndrome.

why have i watched so many friends go braindead and emotionless after mdma addiction?

This is my impression as well (though I've never done psychs besides weed if that counts). You should see how defensive those guys at dmt-nexus get when someone suggests that maybe the feeling of profundity and revelation is just another effect of the drug.

>opium coffee
Elaborate please, this sounds interesting.

>any scare stories you hear about (especially lsd) psychedelics are lies. Never in over twenty years have I even had a "bad trip"
>generalizing from one example
Different people react differently, especially if you have (latent) mental issues already. I'm happy for you that it's not the case with you but that doesn't mean it's like that for everyone.

>cool meme bro

did you write it yourself?

never happened

He specifically mentioned predisposition to mental illness. If you have a predisposition to schizophrenia or bipolar disorder, psychedelics can certainly trigger a first episode, just like weed or the stress of university. Perhaps user has a family history of mental illness.

I second this. Though I haven't abused many drugs, I've done LSD about 20 times, with doses ranging up to slightly above 500 mics. Psychedelics are spectacular and fuck with your mind, you just have to realize it's ALL in your head.

weed isn't a psych

yes and im questioning where people get this from apart from anecdotes.

Have you ever felt your hair flowing in a strong breeze of photons as you ride a rotating fractal like the center of a wave with a balloon as your surfboard?

It's a compelling experience

Had a quick google scholar search for "first episode psychosis substance" and there are a few results. The most prevalent drugs in cases of first-episode psychosis are alcohol and cannabis, but there are also significant numbers of hallucinogen users.
>Substance use in a population-based clinic sample of people with first-episode psychosis (Barnett 2007)
>Substance misuse in first-episode psychosis: 15-month prospective follow-up study (Wade 2006)
>First episode schizophrenia-related psychosis and substance use disorders: acute response to olanzapine and haloperidol (Green 2004)
>Substance Use and Abuse in First-Episode Psychosis: Prevalence Before and After Early Intervention (Archie 2007)

It never paid off. No revelations, no good ideas that I could use in my studies, nothing. I was just super confused all the time and sure it was neat but it just wasn't fun and it wasn't necessarily beneficial.

Idk man

Because I already have depersonalisation so i don't want to be stuck in a loop thx

I have. They're not that interesting

all of my family members have really bad paranoia and serious clinically diagnosed mental illnesses. I'll pass.

After reading entire bread:
>drugs cause addiction and addiction is bad
>haha I regularly use drugs and """I'M""" ok!
>"don't think that's how it works"
>every drugs is bad no matter how much you use haha
>psychedelics cause schizophrenia and psychotic symptoms haha
>I can use dese to get so high I fix my own problems
>its more likely that you will die while on drugs haha

And here I am having never done drugs and not planning to do drugs and living a successful upper middle class lifestyle while bettering myself through rational, step-by-step thought rather than trying to have shotty epiphanies by way of fire water.

i authored these. Here to say that anyone trying to use psychedelics for intellectual reasons is retarded. I watched my cousin drive himself crazy doing that. The only reason to take psychedelics is to enjoy novel experiences. You cant try to force them to give you something.
it really helps with my depersonalization.

last time i tried psychedelics I had extreme anxiety and couldnt swallow properly for 2 years, afraid the food might go into the lungs. its irrational and I wont bother trying drugs again. its not worth. although you become hyper sensitive and (good) euphoric.

for you

>People believe in things i don't believe therefore they are incorrect

Go home kid.

This is MDMA adbuse, not occasional use. Please discriminate in future. Faggot.

Hippies have done LSD, you have not. Therefore you are not the authority on this matter.

You cannot get addicted to MDMA. The mechanism depletes your serotonin - it doesn't facilitate its growth like conventional drugs do.

>You cannot get addicted to MDMA
yes, you can, if you think you cant, you have never experienced drug culture outside of reading about it

There's a lot of mixing up between physical drug abuse and metaphysical drug abuse. MDMA is in itself not very addictive, only slightly so in comparison as alcohol or cocaine (which I mention because they are often lumped in together), but its the actions and memories attached to that drug (metaphysicality) that people also get addicted to. You can be addicted to working out for pete's sake.

>you have never experienced drug culture outside of reading about it

You have no idea who I am or what I've done, so don't say things you have no knowledge about.

Not taking the risk of getting any more panic attacks thank you very much.

I did, ended up having a bad trip which fucked me up really bad. I have never felt the same after that.


Never in my life, have I been scared of the thought of merely existing. Thanks, Psychedelics.

Epilepsy.

>Are you scared of discovering the full potential of your mind ?
I am afraid of change, because I am afraid of becoming delusional, because I am afraid of being conflicted and deeply wrong. I have felt the hazy sensation of being overloaded with possibility and unable to reason, there are things I have walled off that likely must stay there until they come out on their own. Until I exit the tangled maze that is my mind, where every day I feel like I am asleep.

When I was younger I would've been more open towards "unchecked" change, and the possibility of persistent change being forced in a low level mechanical way. As it stands I've seen a lot, in a lot more ways than a psychedelic user can likely imagine. And I've seen how chronic psychedelic users function. I don't like it, I don't like it one bit. Causative or indirect correlation? Do not know.

Sourcing is the other problem. I lack unnecessary faith. Large steps require apathy or acceptance.

>You haven't.
I very well have. Over and over. I've done the whole tryptamine family dozens of times each. That doesn't change that people use psychedelics to confirm their biases about spirit when in actuality they're just experiencing a pathological deconditioning.

I agree with the argument that 'you only believe in spirits because you have spirits' but i also believe that this universe is intricately connected through means which are as yet unknown.

*'you only believe in spirits because you have knowledge of spirits'

>but i also believe that this universe is intricately connected through means which are as yet unknown
The reason I won't do psychedelics is because I don't want to acquire silly beliefs like these.

>living a successful upper middle class lifestyle while bettering myself through rational, step-by-step thought
>mfw i'm doing all that and also enjoy weed and occasional shrooms because i'm an adult that can handle it

I have never taken psychedelics before. I see there's yet another arrogant prick thinking he's so much smarter than others even know he knows jack shit. Just another person who thinks just because he has a piece of paper with a sticker on it, thinks he's hot shit.

There are things in this universe that people will never comprehend, or at least try to. We know a millionth of a percentage of anything,

>The reason I won't do psychedelics is because I don't want to acquire silly beliefs like these

And to preserve your toxic mindset of "i'm truly superior to everyone else on earth". I've known people like you, and when they took those drugs, it fucked them up, it melted their reality and were changed forever, as if god himself spanked their arrogant little ass.

I don't even have a diploma, checkmate.

He doesn't have to think he's hot shit to know that what can be postulated without evidence can be dismissed as easily.

Both of you are arguing with an attitude and not the content of the argument.

illegal

>He doesn't have to think he's hot shit to know that what can be postulated without evidence can be dismissed as easily.

What I'm saying is that its foolish to dismiss things we don't understand and arrogantly think we know everything. We don't, and for somethings, won't.

>Both of you are arguing with an attitude and not the content of the argument.

An argument which is essentially 'you believe things I don't therefore they are wrong' has no content.

so this is how Veeky Forums brains go to die

>Think we know everything
He didn't say that or anything like it. The belief is silly because it's based on nothing. Believing something means believing that 1. Your belief represents reality. 2. You aren't overlooking more likely possibilities. 3. You aren't lying to yourself, or misinformed.
Since you have no information to go on, you'd best say "It is possible that" in place of "I believe"

>Won't
Citation needed.

>You believe things I don't therefore are wrong.
No. You believe things that are baseless, and therefore are silly.
Citation needed.

>what can be postulated without evidence can be dismissed as easily.
Yeah, but like, that's wrong. That's just junk people parrot because it feels good, but it's clearly not ontologically or epistemologically well founded. It's a hackjob of a thought process.

You don't "dismiss" anything. You grow up, get a spine, and realize through the entirety of your lifespan you're going to have loose ends. Things you can't find the means to evaluate, but are using your current logic, nonetheless possible. You'll accept that you don't know anything for certain, and that your knowledge and every chain of reasoning is built on underlying logic formed from a framework of relative truths. ie, every truth is reliant on another. That they are all uncertain and thus be weighted by probability.

Eventually this becomes second nature and you accept that you can live as though something is true, and experience it as true, within certain bounds. You develop develop reasonable error control with time and iteration, and a lot of the fear, the angst, disappears.

But all this "dismissal" business? Lazy, childish, horseshit. A sign of a fearful, clinging, hedonistic mind. A sign of fragility. Fragile things don't tend to bend well, they generally just shatter when stressed.

>I've known people like you, and when they took those drugs, it fucked them up, it melted their reality and were changed forever
This still doesn't sound like something desirable.

My post wasn't even arrogant or anything, you just interpreted it like that because I don't share your metaphysical beliefs. Speaking of toxic...
By the way, I never claimed that it's impossible that "the universe is intricately connected etc..", technically, it might be, but so might a literal infinitude of other unprovable metaphysical statements. Nor do I claim to know everything, be superior to others, or any of the shit you ascribe to me.
I just think it's silly to seriously entertain convictions which can never be proven either true or false, nor have any impact on my life.

>implying recreational use is the same as gaining a heightened lifestyle

This is a pretty solid belief, and is more skeptical in nature than your belief in thinking that what we see is the true nature of things. Do you even meta-physics faggot? Have you ever read Hume or Kant? Or even the classics? Like jesus psyches give you intuitive understanding of these ideas and you yourself dismiss them on whim. These ideas were debated by the greatest minds of humankind but you dismiss them due to your mindless postmodern deconstructionist indoctrination. squares shouldn't be able to talk about philosophy honestly, they are so predictable.

>your belief in thinking that what we see is the true nature of things.
I never said I believe that.

>Won't
Citation needed.

There are things we will only know through objective means, which is un-citable. If you think that's incorrect, then you must be a bit dumb.

>No. You believe things that are baseless, and therefore are silly.

The fact I think the universe is connected is baseless? Everything in the universe is connected physically and metaphysically to each other. You are wrong. What else is it based on? Human understanding? Good luck with that.

>I just think it's silly to seriously entertain convictions which can never be proven either true or false, nor have any impact on my life.

Not everything can be proven true or false. What is the meaning of life? Why are we conscious? etc all can't be proven true or false and to are subjective. The fact that you think everything is measurable or logical through the eyes of a Human is inherently flawed.

There are things in 100 years that you couldn't have imagined in your wildest dreams like explaining the internet to someone in 1917. That's merely 100 years. Extrapolate that by 1,000,000 and think of how an alien would talk to us. Then, imagine the things they wouldn't know ad infinitum, which the universe has known all along.

>calls "universe could be connected in ways we do not know" silly
>negation is "universe is only connected in ways we do know"
do you just abstain or what

I did a lot of psychedelics in college. First, second, and third year during spring I would trip about every other week, doses ranging up to 800 mics of acid. I also smoked a lot of weed during this time. I'd be lying if I said I'm not fucked up from it in the sense that my memory is worse than it used to be and I have some very slight visuals every now and again. I don't do drugs anymore because looking back on it, the only thing I got from it is a little bit dumber. I never had a bad trip on acid, but I nearly shady myself on shrooms the last time I did them and haven't done it since.

>>calls "universe could be connected in ways we do not know" silly
Wrong again, I called
>"universe IS intricately connected through means which are as yet unknown"
silly. I don't even really know what it's supposed to mean. Sure, it could be, everything could be, but to just believe it because "we cannot know nuthin" is silly.

>proven either true or false
Here, i can prove it true. Let whatever proposition P you want, and I declare it to be true, as the first and only axiom of the logical system. Boom.
>illustrating the arbitrary and engineered nature of logic
in fact please read up on russell and his failure to ground mathematics in logic.

Belief is not binary. Truth is not binary. Evaluating new ideas does not require overriding and replacing the old "truth". You don't encounter a new idea and have to immediately brand it as 100% believe, 100% disbelieve.

Man just like, hold onto it. That's it. Hold onto it, pull it apart over time, weigh it relative to many contexts.

Just hold onto it. I do not understand the comfort to be had in such radical linearity.

it was "believe it is", so there is the implication of not knowing. I mean, it seems to be semantics anyways, so I'm pretty sure we are on the same page. But nonetheless, it is the philosophy of not knowing nothing that can help us question the basic axioms on which our basis of knowledge is predicated on. Our philosophy of "not knowin nuthin" is what creates wonderful breakthroughs in understanding our universe better, i.e. Kurt Godel questioning whether logical sentences can even be evaluated all the time. It widens the scope of possible theories one can adopt. You only have to look at the history of science to know that those who keep with the status quo aren't the ones who make the breakthroughs.