Why are engineers so bad at critical thinking?

Why are engineers so bad at critical thinking?

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Because they're ISTJ types instead of INTP or INTJ.

That's a good answer, but I thought Veeky Forums hated MBTI.

>Solved in under 5 seconds
What? I think you mean "solved almost instantly". There are no carries involved. It's simple manipulation via a mental table.

I am conflicted about common core and do not know much about it. At once they seem to be attempting to teach ways of intuitively solving problems by taking it out of the conscious frame and having the subconscious do the bulk of the work, by reducing a problem to more simple parts, or more efficiently batch operations together. And at the same time they're selectively crippling the mind with poorly designed low level machinery they no doubt intend to layer other junk on which necessitate yet more junk approaches to problem solving and reasoning as a whole.

Eg you should be teaching techniques like for:
88 + 97 +14
to process it as:
85 + 100 + 14

Or recognize patterns and relationships between numbers, like:
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5..... + 98 + 99 = ?
This can be solved instantly, 4950. 1 + 99 = 100. 2 + 98 = 100....
100 * 49 + 50 = 4950.

Etc. In the picture posted, "Jack" should have done any of those steps. He should have used the place value system for its intended purpose and gone through each digit serially. I have my doubts that this is a good way to teach kids the relationships between numbers. I'm not even a mathematician, my knowledge of mathematics is a patchwork mess that probably shakes out to a 6th grade level. But when I see 8 + 7, I "feel" 15. 6 and 7? 6 is composed of 3 and 3. 7 is ten lacking 3. 13 is therefore felt, and that forms the underlying foundation for higher arithmetic calculation.

I also like that trick with multiplication by 5. Add a zero, then in mind divide into a set of even numbers, divide each by 2. Almost instantaneous result, with working memory (or visual buffer) being the only tool required.

>"Jack" should have done
shouldn't*

Some do.

Also, ENTP here.
I wish I was INTP

We are literally taught to just plug shit in a calculator
I fucking hate it man

>tfw INTP and mediocre at math

>E
how does it feel knowing that you're a normie by nature and will never truly reach the Nirvana of not giving a shit about the people around you? I'm telling you man, those New Balance sneakers are super comfy and that's why INTPs like them.

>INTJ
>cocky
>no sense of humor, serious all the time except when being intellectually jerked off
Am I going to die alone

Feels bad bro...
Lack of social interaction makes me depressed, and interacting with people I find less intelligent, makes me anxious.

I basically only talk to XNTXs

The secret is to stop giving fucks, user.

Engineers rarely encounter a novel situation or one too complex for a clear concise rulebook, when they do they simply cannot comprehend that it is up to them to figure out how to proceed on their own.

Now I am not a fan of common core, though I have to dance around normies and their bullshit all the time so for me it is not a big deal. To the engineer however it is all too unfamiliar, that is not what they were taught, they've never seen anything like it before, it's just wrong, it's not right, it's different, it's... rrr... RRRR.... REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Homosexuality, takes up a lot time, energy, and braincells

"electronics" engineering.

Not a real engineer.

>Engineers rarely encounter a novel situation or one too complex for a clear concise rulebook, when they do they simply cannot comprehend that it is up to them to figure out how to proceed on their own.

>engineering
>high math
lmao

what the fuck am i looking at with this common core shit lmao is this actual a real idea they teach in schools anywhere in the western world? jfc

>>Engineers rarely encounter a novel situation or one too complex for a clear concise rulebook, when they do they simply cannot comprehend that it is up to them to figure out how to proceed on their own.
yup

Don't be afraid of loneliness, thus don't be afraid of dying alone ;)

Going to school in Canada and having to use ridiculous concluded mathematics seems extremely tedious early on, and although I want to become an engineer I can confirm that learning proofs like this early on can actually help much more to form good habits and comprehend mathematics into the future.

It's the highest "useful" math, anything past calc and diffyQ is just mental masterbation. It's not that we engineers can't do it, it's that there is nothing generative and productive from learning it.

You are a fucking retard if you are "conflicted" about common core.

Have you had your ass so far up numbers books you forgot the government is here to fuck you and everyone else over?

They teach Columbus discovered America for god's sake to this day.

>columbus hater
Niger detected

What sort of people do you socialize with? I am an INTP possessing all the related traits, but I tend to take on more of an ENTP role when I'm with people who aren't absolutely devoid of rational thought.

I'm a hater of misinformation.

I'm Irish/Scottish. My uncle is a literal scottish red haired giant.

> anything past calc and diffyQ is just mental masterbation

What is

>Combinatorics/Linear Programming (Operations Research)
>Stochastic Calculus (Finance)
>Finite Field Arithmetic (Cryptography)
>Basic Number Theory (CS & Algorithms)
>Complex Analysis (EE + Physics)
>Applications of Topology to Economics (See John Nash)

Just to name a few. Do engineers make additional effort to be ignorant?

E doesn't imply giving a fuck. I'm an E, and I find myself doing my own thing whilst still being outgoing. It's simply a matter of shaking off the losers in life.

MBTI is Pseudoscience astrology bull shit.

Those arent more difficult maths though, and considering their limited usefulness they have limited teaching. Also, EE is engineering you brainlet.

We all cant be Chad the engineer, but it's cute that you pretend you're a smart guy.

AP is just as bad
>AP bio
R/k selection, equilibrium ecology, the most shit ass outdated evolution
>AP GOV
Don't learn what capitalism means
Don't learn what socialism means
Basically just conditioning to accept representive democracy, no critical thinking whatsoever
AP PSYCH was actually the best
I didn't pay any attention to the others

Yeah, fuck Nigeria.

I remember my AP history class focusing on Jared Diamond's Guns Germs and Steel for a day and often used video's from Jon Green's Crash Course world history.
I have no idea how i managed to think that class was good at the time.

I was the same way user, same personality and very high IQ. Try making fun of yourself and not taking everything too seriously. It will also make it easier when you make a mistake.

Also find someone who is the same.

Try LSD and go on an introspection journey.

engineering is basically a trade school, you shouldn't expect too much

This is textbook self-hatrred m8. Columbus was an adventurer and a remarkable one that discovered the savage races of America.

if Nigers are from Nigeria, what are people from Niger called?

>le pol face

POO

>implying ISTJ isn't objectively superior
Sub-80 IQ spotted.

>unable to have any form of abstract thought
>superior

>unable to have any form of abstract thought
Whatev, Mr. "Super-duper thin rectangles."

you got rekt, upper level math is incredible

enjoy being a plug and chug machine

>super duper thin rectangle
this is just the way something needs to be explained to sensors or else they won't understand it

>or else they won't understand it
Then why do I?

i'm still legitimately convinced that all these common core pictures are fake

It wasn't as shitty as the others?

this, leave this board you filthy brainletism apologists

The last "small jump" is of 20, not of 10 like the ones before it.

because we explained it that way.
S types need to learn and memorize literally every little step, independent thought and discovery by seeing the bigger picture is not expected from them

Pretty sure the handwriting is the shitty engineer straining his feeble mind to understand it, what he's actually doing wrong is he missed a jump of 10, he only did three jumps of 100 each, and 6 jumps of 1 each, missing the 10 jump.

I don't get what is so hard about understanding common core, this is the way i have always solved arithmetic problems in my head. Do engineers really see mathematics as just the manipulation of symbols?

I don't have the faintest memory of having learned integrals through super-duper thin rectangles in my life. I could also make the difference between equivalence classes and their elements from day one, unlike you beloved intuition knight named Wildburger. Nice strawman though.

Jack forgot to do his tens. Took me a second to figure out what those random numbers and shit meant because I'm not familiar with them.

Nigerians

Ah, so it is

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger

I want to be ENTP works as mananger or something more social but my friends ENTP will love begins math """genius""" as me.

Did I say I had anything against Columbus?

GTFO this board you fucking illiterate, inflamed amygdala having brainlet.

>AP GOV
God I'm glad I went to podunk high school without AP classes. I might have shot myself.

what

If you've ever bothered to take an MBTI test, you'll likely at a sub-125 IQ, honestly.

uma delicia

Can't wait until we calculator coprocessor inplants for the brain. Simple arithmetic is the thing I struggle with most in math.

>Differential equations

>Higher math

Engineers actually unironicallly believe this

>Do engineers really see mathematics as just the manipulation of symbols?

Yes. Yes they do. Brainlets through and through

>Bachelor in Electronics Engineering
does that really include higher math applications

Engineers understand about math the same amount that Mathematicians understand about Engineering.
Engineers suck at math. Just like Mathematicians suck at engineering.
Mathematicians can't build a single circuit, machine, building or factory, Math fags can't manage & can't do any experiment in Physics it chemistry.
Physicists do faster calculations than Mathematicians. Math fags are just too sexually obsessed with "muh rigor".
Math just excels in Autism.

These butthurt engineers are common core are always hilarious. Faggots think they know math, lol

Most engineers, even in grad school, will never encounter a proof, but undergraduate math programs typically have physics / chem /programming requirements, and in particular with applied math courses you often get theory that engineers use.

We had proofs when I took Calculus 1 so they probably have seen some proofs

they were optional and we never had to learn them though

>american education
That's why they impot the actuall revolutionary engineers from other countries.

am i missing something here? why the fuck is it called common core instead of just basic number theory because thats what it is

Why even call it math at this point ?
If you're just going to apply the same methods over and over to compute integrals, you're not doing maths, you're just being a sophisticated parrot.

>He can't even count in tens.
t. brainlet

INTJ Engineer here. This is mostly correct. Yes, most of my faggot classmates are. Their continuous questions like "how this is useful?" is what kills me inside. I tell them to read a book or think, but they can't be bothered with that.

>Engineers rarely encounter a novel situation or one too complex for a clear concise rulebook, when they do they simply cannot comprehend that it is up to them to figure out how to proceed on their own.
Perhaps in the USA.

True. You can't pass engineering mathematics without proofs here either.

Not true. Even you should know this with a BSc, but considering that you don't please look at PhD level engineering, hell even MSc level. For example stochastic PDEs are useful.

Retard. Try optimizing something, perhaps your design.
asco.sourceforge.net/

*Most* of the time true, but not always, they can think, but their process is different. Their intuition seem to be near reaching, instead of far reaching. They can't associate and connect very different things, unlike N types. That's the best I can explain my own experience.

This looks like some non-sense about classifying people into their chosen degree. Individual ability matters more.

(This thread has a good amount of meme-/shitposts. I'm pleased by this and I like giving serious answers despite them.)

Does this mean that I, as a INTJ, will easily pass all my EE courses and breeze through my 300k starting job?

where does ISTP fit into this

Manual worker

don't

Why would you object to teaching that Columbus discovered America? He wasn't the first person to discover it, but he was the person who discovered it and then shared its existence with the rest of the world. I mean, would you say that Mayans didn't discover writing because some people they'd never heard of had also discovered it 3000 years prior?

Control engineering (branch of EE) proof theorems in PhD grad school.
EE uses Complex Analysis.
EE specializing in Semiconductors, Quantum Computing, Photonics or Nuclear Power have to learn Quantum Mechanics, Optics & Solid State Physics which use a lot of math in PhD levels.

this is just poor wording. You don't learn that columbus discovered america, you learn about "Columbus' discovering of America" as in his personal experience.

>therefore
>result in termination
somebody is trying to sound smart. Common core taught me, when I was 22, how to mentally feel the difference between 10 and 100. I used to watch numbers shrink in my bank account, and think that a thousand dollars being gone wasn't much, because I just saw a 3 turn into a 2.

Fluid Mechanics, a branch of Mechanical Engineering is very Mathematical.
Researchers & Grad students in Fluid Mechanics also have to proof theorems in muh country (perhaps not in USA)
Because Navier Stokes equations & Chaos Theory are too complicated for intuitive approach, so more rigorous math turns out necessary in Fluid Mech E.

how did you know I'm a manual worker