What's the best way to ask a PI if I can help out with research in their lab? I just graduated in May and stupid as fuck me thought "Nah I don't want to go to grad school immediately all of the Ph.D. students in my lab seem like they're held together by a string I wanna just do research assistant stuff for another year" without realizing how difficult it would be to find people willing to pay me or even put up with me for shit that undergraduates at their universities are begging to do
My emails keep getting nice but still disappointing responses, is there something I'm doing wrong?
Sorry for not posting on /adv/ but I somehow feel like I'd have better luck with an answer here
Please don't make me have to go there and get nice sounding advice that comes from someone with no actual experience
Ryder Moore
are you asking how to go about being a researcher without being either an enrolled grad/undergrad student or a post-doc/PhD? because if so what the fuck is wrong with you
Jack King
I mean in my undergraduate lab my professor talked about getting emails from people like this all the time and was fine with them coming in for a summer so long as they didn't expect to get an easy pass into a PhD under her as a result.
I figured since I graduated very recently and have research experience it wouldn't be so outlandish.
Brandon Ross
>he didn't major in engineering >now he has to beg people to work for them for free
Aiden Ross
My girlfriend is about to be a CPO I'll be fine so long as she keeps thinking I'm attractive and I don't fail at this endeavor and become essentially a neet
Luke Powell
dude there's a world of difference between being and not being an enrolled student they could either hire one of the many many post-docs scrambling for a position, hire a graduate student, or hire any of the hordes of undergrads looking to get head, OR they could hire some fucking clown who isn't enrolled in any classes, has no commitment to the university, and has no apparent ambition to do what it takes to actually become a researcher (meaning earn a PhD)
you are fucking delusional if you think you have a serious chance of working in an academic lab if you willingly eschewed graduate school in favor of doing literally nothing. working in a lab is a part of doing research, which is a part of studying in a graduate program. reconsider your life choices.
Justin Gonzalez
>u willingly eschewed graduate school in favor of doing literally nothing.
This was not my plan In truth I just did not think I was ready for a PhD program. Seeing everything my senpai did tirelessly and comparing it to how I'd only sometimes spend weekends at the lab and feel totally drained as a result made me feel like I needed to mature more before making the leap, and it seemed like the best way to do so would be to acquire my experience working in different labs. Is that really so idiotic? I made it clear I intended to go on to grad school in the emails I sent out to different PIs
Gabriel Ortiz
it doesn't matter if that was your plan or not, that's what happened and that's what they're going to be thinking when hiring you fuck most labs that take their research seriously probably have written rules not to hire anyone who isn't currently affiliated with their university or otherwise a visiting professor or something
point being: if you want to do research, go to grad school because your free undergrad ticket has come and gone. getting a PhD in a science related field is probably the worst thing you could possibly do in my opinion but if you want to work in a lab that's what you have to do
Jaxson Murphy
I was really hoping to side step getting a masters with actual research experience but fuck, if you're right I guess I better start researching.
> PhD in a science related field is probably the worst thing you could possibly do in my opinion
Want to elaborate? I've kind of given up on making huge amounts of money myself I just want to have a career that contributes something to the world and I can be passionate about and it seems like if I can accumulate more discipline I've already found one.
Ayden Davis
>if you're right I guess I better start researching.
It bugs me that I used the same verb twice in that sentence so to clarify I mean researching different schools for masters programs
Jaxon Robinson
>side step getting a masters with actual research experience what the fuck is wrong with you speak with an advisor. seriously. stop posting on Veeky Forums and get your life together
about the PhD: laboratory science fields are incredibly over-saturated and don't offer reasonable working hours or sufficient compensation for the amount of work and stress that accompanies the career and that's assuming you get a position in a lab in the first place, which is already incredibly hard given how competitive and saturated the field is
this pic sums it up pretty well, but of course do your own research once you finish sorting out your fucking life jesus christ
best of luck, user
Christian Flores
I'm between 1 and 2, I imagined an ideal form of my life being what 1 describes but from what I've seen firsthand its like everything in 2 but somehow the phd candidates in my lab still seemed happy-ish. Any chance you know what that link leads to?
>what the fuck is wrong with you
Two people in my undergraduate lab sidestepped getting a masters although one took a 7 year break in between undergrad and doctorate and the other was a genius who went straight from undergrad to doctorate. Another who got a masters says she wishes she didn't, so all of that combined made me think it'd be feasible to evade accumulating like 30k debt by working but I guess not.
I've already kind of accepted how difficult it'll be to get a job but I sort of don't care I just can't imagine myself doing a job where I'm not thinking about something that really interests me without being vaguely suicidal about being a cog in someone else's wheel (ironic considering I'll be working on a PI's dream for a long time but at least I'd be more connected to that)
also you don't understand what you mean by "sidestep a masters" most PhD programs, especially in STEM, integrate the Masters portion of graduate school into the PhD program you don't apply to masters programs if your end goal is to earn a PhD, you apply to PhD programs directly
Samuel Bennett
seriously though don't underestimate how SHIT and STRESSFUL a PhD program is. once you're in it, if you're not autistically (and i really mean autistically) devoted to the subject, then the lack of a prospective career at the end can (and has) lead people to become incredibly and sometimes suicidally depressed
take it from someone with experience: i dropped out of an Ivy League computer science PhD program because i literally could not handle the depression and stress compounded with the fact that i didn't like any of the possible careers i would be able to get with that PhD (fuck the software industry) i'm now pursuing a PhD in math with a focus in finance
Justin Ramirez
It's harder now that you've graduated. Since you're not a student looking to work in a lab, you're now a guy looking for a research assistant/associate position as a job. That's a much larger financial burden on the lab. It's also a hiring decision that would be made by the department rather than by a PI. You're not really in a position to just ask a PI for a position.
You're in the real world now, and you need a real job. Also reading the thread, if you're just looking to get experience before applying to grad school, you don't need to be working at a university lab. Look for research associate positions at real companies. I know plenty of people who finished their bachelors, worked in industry for 2 years or so, then went back to do a PhD.
I think that pic is pretty off base. For the lab science PhD, it assumes you're going into it to get a tenure track position. The logic of "don't get a PhD in this field, you'll have to go through post-doc hell and there are barely any tenure track positions" applies to literally every subject you could get a PhD in. Those PhDs have great prospects in industry. Biotech, genomics and pharma are in a great spot right now. Chemical engineering and materials science are going all kinds of places.
Angel James
>The logic of "don't get a PhD in this field, you'll have to go through post-doc hell and there are barely any tenure track positions" applies to literally every subject you could get a PhD in except no it fucking doesn't there are many PhDs that are suitable for going into industry directly after graduating, like for example Statistics, Comp Sci, Math (depending on concentration), many Engineerings, Softw Engineering, Finance, Economics, etc.
you're not really refuting the image, and you're agreeing with the perspective of the person who wrote the article (who i don't agree with fully, since he's clearly biased)
as a PhD student i can tell you his breakdown of the PhD programs is fairly accurate and is a good place to start thinking about what a PhD really entails for someone looking to apply to programs
Joseph Diaz
>there are many PhDs that are suitable for going into industry directly after graduating, like for example Statistics, Comp Sci, Math (depending on concentration), many Engineerings, Softw Engineering, Finance, Economics, etc. but isnt that true of some harder sciences too, assuming you dont do your thesis in something super specific and instead just gain general instrumentation knowledge. There are industries you can go into with a chemistry or biology PhD right? i dunno i dont feel bad, or like a suicidal fool for going for a PhD, and im going to be 31 when i get out
Ryan Sullivan
You're misunderstanding my post. The image says lab science PhDs are a bad bet because you get post doc hell and there aren't many tenure track positions, and therefore you shouldn't pursue them.
My point is that many of those PhDs are great for industry. The post author could easily say PhDs in fields like math, CS, econ, finance, etc, are bad for the same reasons because there aren't many tenure track positions open in general. Trying to pursue a purely academic career in software engineering requires as much postdoc hell and small chance of getting a tenure track position as pursuing a purely academic career in biochemistry.
By focusing on "lab science PhDs are bad because you're unlikely to get a tenure track position", he's ignoring all the industry work available. I think we're saying the same thing here.
David Parker
Just wanted to reiterate my thanks to everyone who posted, I'm sure I would have gotten something that didn't make me worried as fuck on /adv/, but talking to you guys gave me a very good idea on how to proceed, so thanks.
Isaiah Morris
頑張って, user
Cameron Russell
Not a genius here. Just finished my undergrad. Going directly to a PhD program this Fall. It can definitely happen. You don't need a masters.
Brandon Miller
This. Work in private labs. Or you should have applied for some fellowship to secure funding and add a line to your CV.
Hunter James
bump
Colton Richardson
Fuck off, fucking weeb.
William Parker
ばか外人、メイク・ミ
Jonathan Walker
exact same here user. Not a genius, PhD out of undergrad, people think it's an insane accomplishment, in reality i just applied on time and had strong letters of rec because im not a sperg who really enjoyed talking to my teachers
Juan Murphy
This. Just go into industry for a few years. Look up companies doing things you think are cool and apply.
