>Lol you don't know what arbitrary means.
>Hint: "utility to the evaluator"
so they determine a range of how much they're willing to pay for labor depending on how much wealth they can extract from your work given how much people are willing to pay for your contribution to the creation of consumer goods?
that doesn't sound arbitrary at all.
negotiate your own wages.
>Yeah there sure is a myriad of ways for you to let other make money off of your work.
there are. your ignorance is not an argument
>So your choices are to become capital or be put in excile?
another nonargument. you pay for social conveniences and city living in more ways than one. choosing to go without those to save money is a choice anyone is willing to make. just because some options aren't available, that doesn't mean freedom doesn't exist.
if you disagree, you're free to kill yourself and prove me wrong from the afterlife
>That's the problem. People are allowed to personally own property they never even set foot on, this is theft to all who are deprived.
owning something is not theft just because someone else could imagine a scenario in which they could use it more
>t morally inept scumbag.
>There is nothing wrong with owning something you do not touch while other people live with nothing? Fuck you!
not an argument, buddy. give me an empircal way to determine who "needs" something more than someone else given the infinite complexity of human life and living standards
>Then what is a wage?
a wage is how much you're willing to sell your labor for. selling labor and skills is no different from selling objects and property. just because you can't see it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. else the whole world would vanish when a man goes blind
>Not being able to eat or have a home if you don't work for someone else?
you are free within the confines of human existance. again, kill yourself and prove me wrong from the grave
>Capitalism wouldn't exist
LMAO. you're completely delusional
Overpopulation
I mean the UN could require all countries to kill off 15% of Thier population (probably worth ugenix in mind) and make 50% of the female babies born in the next 50 years infertile.
There problem solved
>that doesn't sound arbitrary at all.
Again
Lol you don't understand what arbitrary means
>negotiate your own wages
>just hold out on feeding yourself and providing for your family and sleep in the gutter until a better offer comes along
>there are. your ignorance is not an argument
Are you implying I don't know that? The problem is the "other people making money of your work" part.
>just because some options aren't available, that doesn't mean freedom doesn't exist
it exists for the rich. I really hope you experience utter poverty one day.
>owning something is not theft just because someone else could imagine a scenario in which they could use it more
Like I said, you are morally inept. This is because you are stupid.
>who "needs" something more than someone else given
Nobody "needs" land they never set foot on. From each according to his ability, to each according to their need. A homeless person needs an acre of land to live on much more than the land Barron who is allowed(with state protection) to own thousands of acres he doesn't even live on.
>a wage is how much you're willing to sell your labor for. selling labor and skills is no different from selling objects and property.
Back to my point, I'm glad that you agree with me that other people's labor is capital.
>you are free within the confines of human existance. again, kill yourself and prove me wrong from the grave
>lmao your delusional
Disappointing from someone so fond of saying "that's not an argument"
Fuck off retard.
>you don't understand what arbitrary means
I just defined how the wages were determined by market principles
>just hold out on feeding yourself
fantasy scenario. go to a charity if you're too inept/unlucky to feed yourself
>other people making money off your work is a problem
people working together is a problem?
there is more to value creation than just creating something that people can eat or wear
>exists for the rich
no it doesn't. it exists for everyone besides the most absurdly destitute and crippled, who in turn get free things through charity
>you are morally inept. This is because you are stupid.
you are deluded because you are closed minded in your religion of ideology
>need
don't care
>From each according to his ability, to each according to their need
communism has never worked no matter how many times it's been tried.
communism is the ideological equivalent of shooting yourself in the head. only a megalomaniac could convince themselves/other that it's a good idea.
everyone else knows exactly what's going to happen when they give it a shot
you exist in a fantasy world of someone else's creation.
think about your cult's dogma before posting anymore
> I think wages are slavery to begin with.
this is the single dumbest thing anyone ever thought of. Socialists are so fucking retarded and anti-freedom, that they have to redefine the concept of slavery to such as degree that having to work, having needs at all, is slavery, you're a slave of your biological necessities, wow, very insightful.
>I just defined how the wages were determined by market principles
Exactly
That's is arbitrary, you are also drawing a false equivalence between the agency of those paying the wage and those who are paid.
>fantasy scenario
You trolling? Hundreds of millions if not billions of people go hungry every day
>people working together is a problem
No people working for an hourly wage for someone else is a problem. Wage labor is far off from workers self management and syndicalism.
>no it doesn't. it exists for everyone besides the most absurdly destitute and crippled, who in turn get free things through charity
You are very detached from reality. Give up all your personal possessions, sever all family ties, and burn your credentials before moving to a new city to understand.
>communism
Wew lad
I'm a left wing market anarchist that favors revolutionary syndicalism, workers self management, mutual aid, and the scientific management of externalities you idiot. Who said anything about communism? You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>fantasy world of someone else's creation
No u
You aren't worth my time.
>I think wages are slavery to begin with.
Jesus christ I don't know who's more retarded.
The borderline fucking commie, or the one who calls himself a libertarian and has a fucking problem with two people entering into a VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT.
It's sensu libre you mong.
The idea that wage labor is a form of protracted slavery was even a popular idea in Lincolns Republican Party.
It's economically forced labor. When people have no right to means of production without paying for them, they have no means of economics self-determination and are forced to work a wage or live in abject poverty.
>VOLUNTARY AGREEMENT
>volunteer or sleep outside and live off of spare change.
Lots of choices
The only places where people don't have to work to survive, are places that nobody wants to live.