Is it worth getting into occultism and alchemy or is it plain bullshit that will take my time I could devote to read...

What has it to do with consiousness? Explain please.

Jung left a huge body of work, but the best place to start is probably "The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious."

In a nutshell, Jung theorised that we all inherit a vast body of ancient lore and memory which he called the "Collective Unconscious." Much of this material is embodied in the form of identities called Archetypes, which we meet in our dreams, and tend to project onto the outside world as gods and spirits. They're embodiments of instinct, wisdom and learning which teach us how to deal with the challenges of survival and evolution.

Occultists were generally people who tried to tap into this Collective Unconscious, and commune with the Archetypes found there. They were really pioneers in psychology, though most of them didn't realise it. It wasn't until the 19th century, when organisations like the Golden Dawn came along, that a more rigorous and scientific approach was attempted. Aleister Crowley was a strong proponent of this, and is well worth reading (if you can stand his company ... he's certainly not for everyone.)

See

I hardly think one damaged celebrity constitutes a proof. Madonna was a fuck-up before she discovered Kabbalah.

It's probably true to say that the subject attracts flaky types with extreme personalities, but that doesn't imply a causal effect between the occult and psychosis. Personally, after a decade of study and divination experiments, I feel I've gained nothing but benefits and insights. It's like growing a whole new mental faculty. I've found it a hugely rewarding experience.

But what does it majorly revolve around? Do you cast spells and talk to demons or is it more empiric?

>You know that whole "I'd rather rule in Hells" only pertains to exactly one character?

It doesn't pertain to him either. Satan is punished in hell with everyone else. "Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels."

Alchemy and the occult were good enough for Goethe, so they're good enough for me.

As I recall he went to Italy/etc and studied that shit for years. Plainly evident in Faust.

>Do you cast spells and talk to demons
Not personally. I'm more into theory than practice. What I'm really looking for is self-knowledge and control. Like I've said above, the occult is really just psychology. Once you realise demons only exist in your head, you lose the desire to project one into reality.

There are some practices I've tried though: meditation, dream interpretation and divination. All of these have been worthwhile. I was very surprised to find that divination really works. I've become a tarot enthusiast, though I find that my interpretations are often wrong even when the cards are right.

This has led me to conclude that events in external reality are strongly correlated with events in our heads (Jung called this synchronicity.) I've even got a half-arsed pseudo-scientific theory to explain it, which I won't bore you with. I suppose this opens the possibility of "casting spells," though I've never tried it. It seems like a lot of effort, and all the ritual and mummery feels a bit silly.

Jung privately abandoned the idea that Occultists were early psychologists though.

Please, do bore me with it. Also, recommend me works to read. I've got Alchemy and Mysticism from Taschen. Is it any good?

"Practical Sigil Magic" by Frater UD

Has anyone read Rudolf Steiner?

>Please, do bore me with it.
Kek. To be honest I was wary about sounding even crazier than I have already, but here goes anyway ...

You might have heard of the Many Worlds Theory, which has gained some traction in physics. It posits the existence of many universes in parallel. Every time we're faced with a choice, reality "splits" into different universes, one for each possibility. We effectively select the universe we inhabit by making choices.

Now imagine you're doing a tarot reading. You really believe that divination works (which is a crucial detail, I think.) You envision a future based on the cards in front of you. In effect, you "choose" that future, and enter a reality where it comes true. Suddenly you think you have magic powers, because you're inhabiting a universe that matches your prediction.

(This also explains why tarot experiments by sceptics never work. They aren't really choosing a future, because their commitment is lacking.)

Okay, roast me already!

>Also, recommend me works to read
Jung - The Archetypes and the Collective Unconscious
Aleister Crowley - Magick Without Tears
Robert Anton Wilson - Prometheus Rising
The I Ching (best way to get into divination)
Israel Regardie - The Complete Golden Dawn System of Magic (rare and expensive, so I've placed this last)

This may seem a little short, but all of the above will suggest further reading. Each is a real can of worms.

>I've got Alchemy and Mysticism from Taschen. Is it any good?
Sorry, don't know it. I dig the Taschen art books though!

Presumably as opposed to someone with a broader and less constrained view of reality.

Get The Magician's Companion: A Practical and Encyclopedic Guide to Magical and Religious Symbolism by Bill Whitcomb

Good overview and explanation of what it all really is, as well as a lot of different systems to try out.

Alchemy is mostly just the precursor to chemistry, but the philosophy behind it can be interesting. I'm not sure it's terribly useful, though.

Occult can be useful.

I've heard that Tibetan Buddhism can be Occultish.

Every religion has a occultic element.

Why be a slave at all? Orthodox mystics literally call themselves slaves of christ. Why do things have to be so black and white? Seems like a very gloomy paradigm to operate in.

>belief can directly affect reality
Dont think so.

Not that user but of course it can. It's not like woo bolts of lightning magic. Artists believe something and create a work of art, which then exists as a tangible object in reality and has, gasp, an effect! Wow! Political leaders believe x y and z and then enact policies that, get this, affect reality! Crazy!

Reality is subjective. Your perceptions are instrumental in defining reality.

But don't take my word for it - ask a quantum physicist.

try X, they have a occult general with a link to a library for occult books, you could try asking there or just check their link

... and then get out of /x/ as fast as you can.

Agreed

/x/ is full of clueless fluffbunnies absolutely convinced that their own perspective, formed by mainstream media and conspiracy theories and no actual study whatsoever, is the only valid path.

Never go to /x/ for occult.

Yeah and if you get cancer that's subjective too? Retard.

>cancer
I guess you're the expert there, m80.

You might as well collect crystals for their spiritual power, user.

Not to mention all the premenstrual girls who've just got into Twilight.

I'm interested in exploring the occult, but i'm worried such an endeavor might have me fall from grace with god, in whom I'm not even sure I believe. Advice, lads?

is /r/occult better?

where to find occultists that aren't new agey wiccans or edgy fedora tipping satanists?

The Gnostic Christians were trying to get closer to God through the occult. So were Christian mystics in the Golden Dawn (e.g. Arthur Edward Waite.)

Belonging to a traditional religion doesn't preclude occult study. Just try not to summon Beelzebub or anything ...

What the fuck does the devil have to do with this? Non Semitic religions allow transcendence without the God relationship.

>Advice, lads?

Don't let superstition rule you. Be open, yet critical and discerning. If you think something is bunk or not for you then simply move on.

>Do you cast spells and talk to demons

Anyone wanting to get into the Occult for this reason should stop immediately and avoid the Occult altogether because they are the wrong person for it. At the very least they should wait a few years until they've matured more.

>Alchemy is mostly just the precursor to chemistry
Alchemy was mysticism disguised as chemistry. It was all a metaphor. The disguise was essential, given that practitioners could be burned at the stake.

Perhaps you believe him into being

>Just try not to summon Beelzebub or anything ...
Renaissance Christian hermetics did summon demons, btw.

Under the belief that God gave them dominion over demons much like He gave them dominion over nature.

Holy heck. Think they made it into heaven?

Damn thats a long post man can u tldr it for me thx

But how exactly would you define it, then?
Please don't reply with something vague, be as straightforward as possible, but include your opinion/experience because wikipedia really fails to explain it.

Also, how exactly does this "magic" work?
People defending it usually say it's just a process to getting things done/yourself together, but isn't that just self-determination/will with the help of some mumbo-jumbo?

Not him, but please get the book I mentioned in It has a section near the front titled "What is magic?" that I found immensely useful.

I think you can also read it on scribdb, if you just want to see that section:

scribd.com/doc/243067102/76402283-The-Magician-s-Companion-Bill-Whitcomb-1993-pdf

Thank you. But how would you answer it? Or is the meaning very definite and unambiguous?

>Alchemy and the occult were good enough for Goethe, so they're good enough for me.

In Goethe's time, most intellectuals and elites were probably studied in some variety of Hermeticism, probably Rosicrucianism in Germany.

I'd still call myself a Hermeticist, but the thing is what passes for that today is usually more of a crass, corrupted system following after the Golden Dawn system and Crowley. As interesting as the Golden Dawn were, they really messed things up.

It's not supposed to be mainstream or easy, first of all. It's difficult and testing and hidden by nature. Popularizing it has had ugly, corrupting results. Also, the internet can't lay bare its secrets, taking certain forms and spreading them around can't do anything to the hidden, but it can create very deranged misuses. See cults and new age. And I'm not talking about "mass psychosis" in some horror film sense, but the cultural and personal effects on those who practice is profoundly ugly. And who says anyone isn't being damned?

And I'm well familiar with the occult community, and they're a fucking mess. Mostly edgelords, freaks, and rebels with daddy issues. It's actually supposed to be the opposite.

By "it" I'm not talking about magic, by the way, but Theurgy and the Great Work. Magic is inherently self-corrupting.

How would I answer it?

Occult is, at its root, hidden knowledge.

To me, on a more practical level, it's information on the supernatural and mystical that you have to work to find. It involves a lot of study and sifting out truth from fiction. There's a lot of popularized garbage out there.

Magic is just psychology. I agreed with the first Axiom in that chapter I mentioned to you 100% before I even read the book. It's the art of changing your perspective to your own benefit at will.

fag brainlet

...

Yeah and no. It's good for developing an internal library of rhyming ideas/concepts -- the relationship between theatre and ritual, the symmetry between ideas and their common symbols, etc, but you could honestly get that out of studying some of the soft sciences. It's just a bunch of spooky self-important symbols loved by sweaty D&D nerds

thoughts on Peter Levenda's nazi occultism books?

Can you be a little less vague? Fucking hell, can't anyone sum it up and be a little more concrete?

Like I said earlier, it's not a rational kind of knowledge that can be put into words. It's more an immediate kind of worldless knowledge that is inexplicably encountered and experienced. Have you ever done psychedelics and attempted to articulate the things you "knew" on it?

And yet there is, the theory goes, a type of knowledge that's ineffable but supposedly, as certain schools and doctrines claim, can be imparted, engaged with and even acted in through certain means. And I'm sorry, it's vague and elusive by nature, that's why after all it's called Mystery, esoteric, occult. And yet it's very strikingly true and real when you encounter/'know' it, as real and present as 'concrete reality' feels in the hyper-lucidness of being on a lot of meth or coffee.

Reality is actually very withdrawn - but real - and the abundance of 'information' spread technologically affords no more clarity or understanding now any more than pre-internet, and every object or data shared is a mysterious entity in itself. There is no truly clear, definitive, rational or reductive knowledge, ultimately.

Honestly you're going to have to join a secret order for this. I'm not being facetious; that's the best route if you're serious. Good luck and come back here if you gain some cool experiences.

99% of Occultism is trash. I don't even mean that in a 'muh materialism, tips fedora' way. It just doesn't offer anything that philosophy or religion don't do better.

It doesn't help that occultism has this 'magick' aspect to it which claims the ability to manipulate your reality to a certain extent, but all famous occultists are fat, balding, manlets that struggled with substance abuse and died prematurely.
Not a very convincing case.

This

I don't know about literature, but if you want to understand some Renaissance art like Dürer you want to be familiar with the symbolism attached to astrology and alchemy at the time.
There's a good affordable book published by Taschen, check their website.

Any good books you guys know of that deal with the idea of one's perception changing their reality, or controlling your own perception to change your reality, etc.? Don't really care about the occultism stuff broadly, but this idea is interesting.

Giving Satan the time of day. Smh

fuck off
fuck off
fuck off
fuck off
fuck off

im in such a mood

Simply put, there are 3 types of studying the Kabbalah; Meditative, Theoretical, & what OP is referring to which is Practical Kabbalah.
It's an old Jewish tradition but it seems to go against the word of God.
Pic related is a Jewish organization website warning you of its dangers.

Pic related is interesting. Do people really believe in forcing angels to do stuff? And now a real question: is all the 'bad' that comes from practicing this kind of stuff supossed to be only metaphysical (God gets angry, demons try to eat you alive, etc)?

t. Franz Bardon

Is this an elaborate troll thread or are we starting to get runoff from /x/ now?

Can Orthodox Christianity let me cast fireballs?

>occultism and alchemy
Unless you are a scholar of folklore, etc. studying this shit is like studying astrology, flat-earth literature, neo-pagan LARP manuals, Dungeons and Dragons rulebooks, Archie comics, or Woody Woodpecker cartoons.
You might enjoy it, you might impress someone somewhere, but there really isn't anything of value there other than as a hobby.

Is there a single known instance of someone being fucked up by demons?

These kind of things have a natural way of being in the shadows. Speak to anyone acquainted in the occult and its community, though, and you'll hear plenty of stories.

>pic and title related

You mean like John "Kasimir Urbanski/RPGPundit" Tarnowski?
The dude that writes really popular articles about how occultism works, and how he's a wizard, and how to cast spells who, at the end of the day, lives in Uruguay so he can use the exchange rate/cost of living to eke out a pitiful existence on the meagre income he generates selling knock-off Dungeons and Dragons books online?!
Or Alan Moore, the comic book writer and "magician"? Ir the other guys who all claim to be "magicians" and make a living writing comic books?
Are those they guys that can tell us all about the 'secret histories'?

Since when did Veeky Forums believe in angel summoning?

Even if you don't believe all this, still theres some good reading to be done there.
I remember this part about a curse tablet from ancient egypt where a guy called for his fathers spirit in the underworld to watch him as he sleeps, because a guy who thought he wronged him was watching him as he sleepd and causing him nightmares. I can't remember exactly where I read that, maybe Georg Luck, but it was haunting as fuck.

How do I summon one of the Daoine Sith?

Is she high?

...maybe...

Is that you or are you stalking the poor lady? Either way, this isn't /soc/.

>Speak to anyone that believes that earth is flat and he will claim that earth is flat...

It's almost like reality is subjective

>"I'll take "reaction faces used to make an emotional point" for $100, please, Alex"
How long have you been here, newfag?
That reaction image is 4-5 years old, easy, and I got it off arcanine.

so you think that for some people the earth is actually flat, but it isn't for others?

I googled and didn't find anything.

What the fuck are you on about?
If one believes he is possessed by demons, he is deluded.
I'm trying to understand the point of occultism, but the problem arises because of all the fucking branches. Symbols and the irrational cannot be made into a system, because systems and logic are tools of the rational. The irrational is an extremely interesting field of our "reality", but you cannot treat it like it's intertwined with our physical reality (demons fucking up your mind for example. You are either sick or believe too much in the occult and it has friend your brain. And if you are in this state, demons are real for you, but no objective knowledge can arise from it. I can read the Kabbalah and believe I was possessed after fidgeting with the unknown or take drugs and get the same effect...)

Prometheus rising by Robert Anton Wilson.
It's exactly what you just described. He uses the term "reality tunnels"

youtube.com/watch?v=tn7Zm_DWsSU&t=251s

According to the Jews at this website there has been instances where , I suppose you can say demons, destroy a person. Meditation isn't a Christian practice so we can deduce that meditating isn't following the Word of God and thus it allows us to enter a realm of the unknown.
First bullet point of pic related

have been *

googled *what*, exactly?

the picture.

Yes, the realm of the unknown. But what one finds in the unknown is extremely subjective (of course there are common experiences and phenomena - which we call archetypes). What occultism and religion do, however, is that they try to make all this phenomena into systems. Entities are given names, books are written, rituals performed. For me, this is almost heretical, because it stains the experience of the unknown with empirical procedures.

>doesn't know about reverse image search

how new are you, exactly?

How much free time do you have to not only do a reverse search on a random reaction image you find on a Lilliputian hopscotch forum, but then *ask* about the random subject even after the poster tells you he just copied it from Veeky Forums years ago?

I was wondering if he actually googled
>"reaction faces used to make an emotional point"
I figured it was a 50/50

lmgtfy.com/?q=reaction faces used to make an emotional point Veeky Forums+2012