Consciousness and electricity seem to be correlated. There are many cases of people who lost their consciousness in accidents (died), but when a conductive material was stuck in their heads, they regained consciousness, and when it was removed shortly after, they "died" again, and you literally could turn them on and off by sticking that metal shank in and out their heads. And if you do look into it, there are many cases showing electric shocks improve people's mathematical capabilities.
So I would like to share an hypothesis. I think consciousness arises from electricity. To be precise, there must be a very large circuit system with any number of components. The smallest possible circuit makes a binary consciousness, on and off, either 1 or 0, but it becomes more familiar to our concept of sentience when you get to the order of tens of billions of components. However, this would only be a temporary form of consciousness. For that to be more like our consciousness, large parts of the whole circuit would be arranged to store memory - the past - and make calculations and predictions - the future -. Note that, therefore, the number of components can make a gigantic circuit have as much consciousness as a light bulb's circuit if things are not arranged in the right way.
I would like to know what you think about this. I wonder if there's a way to test this hypothesis. And if a dumbass like me thought of this I imagine actual scientists must also have thought of this, so are there any papers on this subject?
I think its bullshit for an extremely specific, basic reason.
There is no reason why a particular configuration of electrons should have a subjective experience. Even when people call it an 'illusion', something has to be experiencing that illusion. Then, consciousness can in no way be explained by our current laws of physics - there's no causal connection between the four basic forces and there being subjective experience.
Then, I believe consciousness is an inherent aspect of the universe and exists in a kind of field, similar to mass or gravity, and that specific configurations of matter produce organizations of consciousness which have the behavior of having a feeling of 'self-ness', i.e, our brains. Then, while the entire universe would then be collectively conscious, only particular configurations of matter would have the sensation of being limited to a body or being a single self.
Nolan Russell
No there isn't. I dont think any scientist would say consciousness was the product of a single thing like electricity.
Levi Myers
I.e. I don't think there's a unit of consciousness. It emerges. I think the only bit i would agree on was on arrangements for prediction, memory etc.
Andrew Gonzalez
Consciousness has nothing to emerge from.
All emergent properties can at least in theory be derived from the more fundamental substructure, but there's no way to do this between physics as we understand it and our current experience.
Then, the only logical thing to do is to assume something is missing from physics.
Robert Clark
I think your explanation is bullshit aswell. What makes this field the property of consciousness? What distinguishes it? Its almost meaningless. Might aswell just say consciousness is an emergent property of matter without this extra assumption that consciousness is intrinsic to the universe.
Cooper Bailey
Look up quantum biology theory and it's correlation to conscientiousness Its heavily theorized that quantum entanglement is responsible for conscientiousness (fact denoted: molecules can be quantumly entangled as well as atoms and subatomic particles The brain is theorized to be functional in several aspects of function such as chemical interactions to electrical ones and considers entanglement to be a baseline the intrinsic form of consciousness
Michael Powell
What's entanglement and what does it add to consciousness?
Jack Turner
This theory also explains why we are able to store petabytes upon petabytes of information because the brain is essentially a quantum computer of biological construct If you know or look up how quantum computers work you will easily understand how much information they store which is an assload
Aaron Phillips
It emerges from the interactions of particles into a physical system that through weak coupling, can model its environment.
Ryder Watson
But claiming consciousness is an emergent property of matter has much deeper philosophical contradictions and problems. These problems are such that it becomes the simpler assumption to say that its simply another property of the universe, in the same way as gravity or mass. You might as well ask what makes gravity or mass - right now, we just know they exist, and we've measured their force-carriers (well, not gravity, but still). But at the bottom, they simply exist. And because consciousness does not appear to emerge from matter, then the best we can say about it is that it simply exists as well.
As I said before - I think emergence is bullshit because there's nothing about electromagnetic force, gravity, or the strong or weak force that implies the existence of consciousness, there's no logical way for consciousness to arise from these things, but it clearly exists nonetheless.
Dominic Walker
Entanglement is the process by which for this case I'm going to use atoms as an example
If one atom where to spin clockwise and it where to be entangled with another atom if you could reverse the spin on atom A: which was spinning clockwise Atom B: would spin in the opposite direction of its original spin which was counter clockwise and is now spinning clockwise
Nathan Gonzalez
But you can always imagine such a system only doing so on a functional level, or 'in the dark'. From physics alone as we understand it, there's no reason any of us should have inner lives or subjective experience. But we're clearly all not philosophical zombies.
John Sanders
As for what does this add to conscientiousness it adds the mechanisms for which random thoughts appear from nothing and reappear from nowhere forgive my explanation for being foggy it's been awhile since I've read about it It also adds how we are able to think much more dynamically than a traditional transistor based computer which would thousands of years to complete It's the basic case for personality where as no chemical or electrical explanation has given one as of yet It even goes as far the olfactory nerves where some molecules have an extremely similar shape almost identical infact but have two completely different smells the leading theory for the longest time has been weaponized autism just kidding.jpg has been the shape of the molecule makes it smell a certain way however this due to the afromentioned above cannot be true it's summized that the amount energy between molecules or how far apart atoms exist between bonds contribute to smell
Wyatt Bell
>Consciousness and electricity seem to be correlated >its long known the brain operates on 20watts What a great discovery you have there mate.
Thomas Johnson
What stops it emerging from matter? For me consciousness isnt a mystical force, its tangible. its in our brains
Joseph Adams
Difference between consciousness and gravity or mass is we can tangibly manipulate consciousness and its demonstrable how it is a physical manifestation.
Adam Gutierrez
As I said before - I think emergence is bullshit because
Yes emergence is complete bullshit even the universe itself didn't just emerge from nothing and it exist none the Less it came from a infinitely dense subatomic particle and when it lost its stability the big bang happened and so came about the universe we know today What I have put forth is theory that is highly logical in the case for conscientiousness and as some videos label it a soul even though I think that is a bit of stretch it's also said to explain out of body expierences due to being entangled with reality itself even though again I find this to be a stretch
Jason Cooper
Consciousness needs complexity.Regular matter is not complex enough.Thats why you dont find conscious rocks.
Nolan Lewis
It's definitely not 20watts your head would be on fire mate but yes it operates electrical signals but is not completely operationally dependent on them it 2/10's of second approximately to tell your fingers to do something but with a extremely minute signal bonus fact the body itself is considered a capacitor
Ryder Morales
Rocks didn't evolve over millions of years to behave with complex biological systems
Gavin Allen
Ive heard about quantum stuff in smell actually but i dont think thats to do with entanglement.
>It's the basic case for personality where as no chemical or electrical explanation has given one as of yet
this sentence confuses me though.
David Walker
There's just nothing 'in' matter for it to emerge from. No matter how complicated of a system you create, in a world described only by currently known physics, anything can be broken down into its summary fundamental particles and their fundamental forces. Consciousness can't be reduced in this way. In this model, you could build something that acts as though it was conscious, but has no inner experience. This is what is implied by our current physics.
So then what's conscious in your brain? I argue that you're conflating mind and consciousness - our minds are certainly the product of our brains, but consciousness is the fundamental property of having subjective experience. It is by the existence of consciousness that we can observe the workings of our mind.
> thoughts coming and going > personality > smell These things are aspects of mind and can very likely be explained by neurological structures.
Leo White
What's complexity then?
It all reduces down to individual quarks and gluons anyway; why would what their neighbor is doing change anything?
Camden Martin
What is it am crushing your religion mate . pick a scholarly article mate. Read it and pay close attention
Jack Wood
Which is why we need to explore this matter more deeply. This isn't science yet because its not something science can even tackle yet - we have no way of observing consciousness outside our own. Even when you do MRI studies on patients, you're relying on their self-reports of their conscious experience, and when you're doing neurology, you're usually talking about the mechanics of mind, which is typically a slightly different topic.
Jacob Phillips
>conscientiousness This is a personality trait describing a person who is organized and hard working. You are looking for "consciousness".
Ian Price
Your brain is the most complex thing in the known universe.You cant really understand it,can you. But lets play with the idea that invididual humans represent a single brain cell. Individual humans dont do much.They eat,fuck and sleep. Put hundreds of humans together.They suddenly start creating interesting things like helicopters and airplanes. Now put millions together and they come up with space rockets and computers.
Eli Jenkins
No, I get the brain is absurdly complex. But for all of its complexity, it all reduces to physics - and what about physics implies consciousness? If I didn't have this qualm, I would be a hard-core materialist, as I've been for most of my life.
Jason Garcia
I dont think it reduces to something you can explain with physics. You see,you may know what a single brain cell does and how it does it,but that may not even connect to what many together can do.
John Barnes
>I dont think it reduces to something you can explain with physics
So you are affirming that consciousness is something that is outside of physics as we understand it, if I'm understanding correctly? But then, that's the argument I'm trying to make. Physics as it is now can't explain it.
And it may not, but at least in theory, if you understood a single brain cell, and had enough computing time, you could ascertain what would happen with many. Emergent behavior can always be shown to be the result of the complex action of those things from which it emerged, and a result of the more fundamental laws or qualities that supersede it.
Jace Martinez
Please stop calling it conscientiousness. I just think consciousness is the product of all these neurons interacting in very complex dynamic ways. From interactions come complexity.
I think the fact that we are alive and thinking and we are made of neurons proves that consciousness can emerge from these things. For me, something that acts like its conscious in terms of all its internal parts and dynamics IS conscious.
I think consciousness is just a special case of mind in that sense and its something in the near future we will be able to describe to some extent in brain dynamics.
I think we just think of consciousness as mystical because everything in science is explained in a highly abstracted sense compared to our own experience. But that description doesn't entail an ontological difference. We forget that we are the only tangible things that exist. All this abstract science stuff is mind-dependent. We don't view the world from a symmetrical standpoint.
Wyatt Cook
Please stop calling it neurology. Neurology is a medical discipline. Its not neuroscience. Theres many valid ways to study consciousness. Its very doable.
Hunter Evans
Shmaybe.But i dont think its outside of physics,but above if that makes the difference. Thats more like it,yes.
Alexander Perry
Theres actually quite abit of literature surrounding the physics of life and potentially consciousness. Theres a field called co-ordination dynamics which maybe one of the closest to describing consciousness and studies the behaviour of complex systems with many component parts.
Luke Phillips
I don't think that at all. I think that our experience of our perceptions proves that consciousness exists, and the experiments we've done in neurology prove that our brain is directly tied to the objects of our consciousness, but consciousness is fundamentally unable to be shown to exist outside of the experience of it directly.
For example, you say that something that acts like its conscious and has complex internal dynamics is conscious. But philosophically speaking, we can't assume that - we can only observe its behavior, not its internal experience. I can't prove that you're conscious, but I experience my own consciousness and infer that you have similar experience as well, but that always has to be taken on faith.
And I'm really not trying to make it a mystical thing. I think we may actually be closer than we initially imagine. You make a point of the science being essentially abstracted away from reality - then, it might be simpler for me to argue that consciousness is 'just' part of how reality is.
Part of the problem is that we might be operating from different ideas about consciousness. I consider consciousness to be the fundamental quality of having subjective experience, but its unrelated to anything actually within that experience - it is simply raw 'awareness' or 'is-ness'. Then mind arises from brain dynamics.
Lucas Rivera
Above? Have you looked into the idea of monistic idealism?
Sorry bruh. And there are methods, but they still have the shortfall of relying on our faith that others have conscious experience the same way we do.
Taking that faith, though, its came to light that in patients with bisected brains have been shown to exhibit separate consciousness acting simultaneously that don't interact with one another.
Oliver Bell
no shit nigga, your whole body needs electricity to function.
consciousness is just a lot of functions of the brain they we pin up as one cohesive concept, putting it on a pedestal, pretending it means anything.
Noah Davis
fuck nihilism.
Colton Russell
>monistic idealism I think its bullshit.If consciousness could change the material universe around us the world would look very different. I think its the same bullshit as viewing something changes the result is something in the realm of quantum magic,yet its really simple if you think about it,because what do you need to see something?You need light,and light (can) acts as a particle so it was the light that changed the result not the fact you looked at it.
Jose Garcia
>There is no reason why a particular configuration of electrons should have a subjective experience. You need to elaborate on this if you want it to be taken seriously because this is not a "for granted" kind of statement that you can just present without evidence. WHY can a particular configuration of electrons absolutely not have a subjective experience? What difference does it make if it's electrons or atoms or soul-trons or some other bullshit?
It's also very absurd to propose that the entire universe contains within it an entire other "field" like gravity and electromagnetism, yet it ONLY seems to manifest itself inside one particular species of animal on one particular planet orbiting around one particular star.
Xavier Richardson
There's just nothing 'in' matter for it to emerge from. No matter how complicated of a system you create, in a world described only by currently known physics, anything can be broken down into its summary fundamental particles and their fundamental forces. Consciousness can't be reduced in this way. In this model, you could build something that acts as though it was conscious, but has no inner experience. This is what is implied by our current physics.
So then what's conscious in your brain? I argue that you're conflating mind and consciousness - our minds are certainly the product of our brains, but consciousness is the fundamental property of having subjective experience. It is by the existence of consciousness that we can observe the workings of our mind.
# > thoughts coming and going > personality > smell These things are aspects of mind and can very likely be explained by neurological structures.
Yes neurological structure that at it's most broken down point has flaws in it's very construct that defines its logic there are aspects that are make up for these flaws in quantum biology theory and better explains some processes that occur at the most fundamental level of these aspects
John Garcia
Also new to the site still unsure how to post a quote from someone
Ryder Wood
I don't really like that idea of it being raw awareness and nothing else. I don't think that awareness is independent of the things in the experience and the only awareness we have to work with is our own. From our intrinsically subjective viewpoint, I wonder if we were to suddenly astral project and know what it was like to be something else (somehow) we might reject that as consciousness because of our own bias.
Adrian Russell
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Isaiah Moore
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Jacob Perez
>There are many cases of people who lost their consciousness in accidents (died), but when a conductive material was stuck in their heads, they regained consciousness, and when it was removed shortly after, they "died" again, and you literally could turn them on and off by sticking that metal shank in and out their heads.
