Ughhh linear algebra is so hard!

Just go compare the french and american engineering education system and you will realize the advantages of the american system.

...

We need those people user. Not all computer engineers want to be coding monkeys.

When I went to grad school in theoretical CS, almost half of the people on the courses were actually mathematicians.

John von Neuman
Alan Turing
Kurt Gödel

Bunch of brainlets according to user

>John von Neuman
Polymath
>Kurt Gödel
Mathematician
>Alan Turing
Homosexual

I already knew the first or second response would blame engineers for something. Never change Veeky Forums.

> Implying that computer science is not a subset of mathematics
> Confuses computer science with the "Uh we program computers so cool" brainlet shit
Yeah I am a bit ashamed too about what flies under the label computer science.

Hey OP.
Maybe you'll enjoy doing a minor or double major in Math. It'll really help your grad school offerings and actually make life easier in CS in general. Pure math courses aren't hard but they're used all the time in CS so I'd see it as a GPA padder.

to be fair, you really do not need to know advanced math to program well. there's always library for something. i personally blame companies requiring computer sci for coders. coding is easy and should be considered as a blue collar skill.

You're only given a superficial understanding of calculus in calc 1, 2, and 3. Especially in applied contexts.

my school explicitly separates more theory heavy cs and IT/sde into two tracks once you finish your first year and a half. the code monkeys just kinda stop being in your class.

is this for ms or phd? i've heard mscs is very cash cow and surprisingly little research is being done by ms students nowadays

I'd like to but it's not practical for me to take extra classes at this point. I have been studying mathematics on my own, though.

I meant for PhD. MS is just BS++

Those people were actual computer scientists. Most CS folks in the 21st century are brainlet code monkeys

>be me
>watching first lecture of intro to computer graphics from UC Davis on YouTube
>"We're going to have to use a little math."
>The room grows silent
>Everyone looks at each other in despair
>Later in the lecture
>"Who can tell me what a vector space is?"
>Brainlet responds
>"Uhh... A space of vectors?"
>Classroom roars in laughter

Why is burger education so shit?More specifically math.One classmate of mine spent a year over there as an exchange student, so he showed us math problems they solve there. People who regularly get a C or a B on a math test here would have no problem having an A in Murica.

B-but a vector space [math]\textit{is}[/math] a space of vectors?

There is a lower emphasis on learning mathematics in primary and secondary school as well as limited funding and a lack of qualified educators.

Computer """Scientists"""

HAHAHAHAHAHA

>be undergrad
>think all the other students are asshole brainlets
>dominate exams
>start doing research
>meet all the grad students
>realize that they're all foreign brainlets whose parents and culture forced them into intensive studying from a young age
>even PIs dgaf about anything other than stacking grant $$$ and getting pubs
>get software development job
>realize I'm actually the asshole
>study religion
>read books
>practice relating to people
>massive success with so much less grinding
>mfw i realize that i only studied so hard as a dishonest way to compensate for my personality flaws and start to fix it
>mfw my life improves massively

Who cares? Rise above them and forget them

All the faggots back when I was getting my CS degree would be all social about it, talking to each other about which Linux distros are their favorites and which cool new Javascript frameworks they just learned, not realizing none of this shit matters

Faggots got B's and C's while I got straight A+'s due to my autistic obsession with CS and I now make $160k+/yr with an easy job that perfectly matches my skillset and interests, right out of college while these faggots work for $70k a year

We can do more if we merge and become one.

Just do pure math instead, read SICP, and HoTT.

never. computer science is meme. pajeet. pajeet pajeet. le math master race. i can learn programming in one weekend. stupid cs majors. i hate that they can so easily get a job and make three times as much as me

>i hate that they can so easily get a job and make three times as much as me
hilarious

>i can learn programming in one weekend
then why are mathtards so shit at it?

coding is easy. fundamentals are easy. writing small scripts and making web CRUD apps are easy. working on large complex enterprise systems is hard. writing embedded software is hard.
it's funny all these math and engineering failures come into development thinking they're hot shit because "im' better than the code monkeys this should be cake" and then they end up being complete garbage

never, because you're just a pleb. engineering jobs really are that trivially simple. you don't need higher math. you don't really need shit. you'll just wind up as a code monkey unless you're doing research for some elite firm / government agency / university. software engineering is simple.. just be somewhat competent in one programming language. why make life harder than it has to be?

compE master race

Because programming in the same damn language for the rest of your life is fucking boring.

It never ends.

precal
>"when are we ever going to use the quotient rule?"
>prof "YOU won't if you keep asking poor questions to get a laugh."

calc 3
>"Why do we need vectors anyway?"
>prof "you won't 'need' vectors at McDonalds."

Modern Computational methods
>"If we don't want to use for loops, what can we use?"
>prof "ask your computer science professor, I'm here for what happens after that course."

Just some of my favorites I can remember.

meant difference quotient, not quotient rule

t. an outcast who thinks hes something special but in reality, hes just like anyone else but autistic.

>"ask your computer science professor, I'm here for what happens after that course."
explain lol

nvm i get it lol

>computer engineering
stop shilling your shitty degree. It isn't and has never been equivalent in any sense of the word to CS.

...user...

You're thinking of Software Engineering being the shit tier degree

Computer Engineering is a high quality degree, harder than Computer Science in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect

(I am not the user you were responding to)

t. doesnt know what computer science is

I'm not confusing anything. Did you read my post or did my first sentence trigger you to such a high degree you couldn't contain yourself?
>It isn't and has never been equivalent in any sense of the word to CS.
Which you yourself then agree with immediately
>harder than Computer Science in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect
But your logic is still flawed and you're labouring under false assumptions. Let me use examples:
>harder than math in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect
>harder than physics in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect
>harder than biology in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect
>harder than history in some ways since it focuses on low level embedded systems and the electrical engineering aspect
CS isn't about programming. It isn't an engineering field. They are tools that are used sometimes. So stop pretending CE is somehow a "superior one up" of CS. They're different fields with different goals.

You called CE a shitty degree that has "never been equivalent in any sense of the word to CS" when this is simply not the case

Most big software companies accept CE and CS as equivalent degrees

Maybe you're from a different country or something, in the US at most major university CE is basically CS with an emphasis on low level programming as opposed to high level programming, and slightly weaker on algorithms while a lot harder on EE

I never said CE is superior to CS. And they are not "different fields with different goals" CE is literally a specialization of CS leaning heavily towards low level programming and EE.

>this is simply not the case
It is.
>Most big software companies accept CE and CS as equivalent degrees
.. I'm not talking about the applications of the field on the job market. I'm talking about the academic fields. Yes, CS students learn programming but that is not what CS about. When you get in a software company as CS grad you aren't doing computer science, most likely. CS and CE have nothing to do with each other. Math and CS are more similar.
>I never said CE is superior to CS
That might be because, like you said yourself, you weren't the person I was originally replying to. AKA who did claim it was so with the statement "or you could just be a real man and switch to computer engineering"
>Maybe you're from a different country or something, in the US at most major university CE is basically CS with an emphasis on low level programming as opposed to high level programming, and slightly weaker on algorithms while a lot harder on EE
Then I don't know what the fuck is going on in the U.S. Here CE and CS have similar programming levels, with CE having more physics but almost zero algorithms while CS is all about algorithms
>I never said CE is superior to CS. And they are not "different fields with different goals" CE is literally a specialization of CS leaning heavily towards low level programming and EE.
This statement is wrong. CS isn't about programming, as I've stated multiple times. It isn't an engineering field nor a field where you are trained to make software. A specialization of CS would be something like data-analytics, algorithms or machine learning

that's what happens when your field becomes trendy and mainstream

Just to elaborate a bith on the math and job market bit: someone who is entering the job market and tries to get a job that would actually be "computer science" is competing with mathematicians, not computer engineers. Like me.

Sorry man. I'm exactly the brainlet you're describing.

Maybe 2-3 generations with common core and our grandkids will be on equal footing so far as math goes.

is it ever worth it to get an MS in compsci?

Seems to me that an MS is good if you didn't get much research experience in undergrad. The assumption being that you will be able to do some sort of research work during the MS. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, though.

Please explain why Software Engineering is a shit degree.

Because it doesn't focus on algorithms and data structures, it focuses on UML diagrams and arbitrary "software engineering principles" which for the CS major are considered extra on-the-side reading.

It's not necessarily "shit" but it's definitely not as hard as a CS degree and not nearly as well respected

It's a babby version of CS

Really? All the SENG programs I've seen require all the core courses CS takes, but also require core engineering classes (ie EE circuits/signal processing, physics, engineering design, etc). I mean they have to, to be accredited as engineering. Also means they have to take a shit-ass ethics course too.

oh jesus, I knew you were going to say that.
My university makes CS and SWE majors take all the same classes for the first 3 years - computer architecture, operating systems, data structures, algorithms I, algorithms II, Calculus I, II, discrete math, linear algebra, databases, networks, etc...
you get the point. Where it diverges is about midway through junior year, where CS take classes such as compliers and artificial intelligence, and SWE take classes such as enterprise systems, testing and debugging, agile development techniques, software metrics, etc...
I'm just speaking for my uni, but I know of several others that are pretty much exactly the same.

this too. My uni is ABET accredited, basically if it was nothing but graphs and shit, there is no way in hell we would have been accredited.
Also,
>UML diagrams
does anybody use those past CS1?

No

>Where it diverges is about midway through junior year, where CS take classes such as compliers and artificial intelligence, and SWE take classes such as enterprise systems, testing and debugging, agile development techniques, software metrics, etc...
That's the issue

Operating systems, compilers, artificial intelligence, advanced data structures and algorithms, (((etc.))) are very important classes for software engineers and ironically the Software Engineering major doesn't typically involve them

>enterprise systems
disgusting

They are not brainlets. They, like you, are clueless of what is actually causing their whine-bone to ache.
They're tired of the fucking garbage teaching environment that universities are. They're tired of the fact that these capitalist firms are milking their wallets instead of massaging their brains. They're literally the opposite of brainlets, and they're ready to learn, but they're being let down with drudgery.
Algorithms are exciting. It's an issue of how you teach it, and stuffing 400 people into a fucking room and daycaring them with TAs is not a good method.

I was about to reply with something in a similar vein. However your summation is absolutely spot on.

Is this the situation in burgerlandia? In my country, the TAs only do labs/excercises and the subject is presented by the prof (who also leads majority of labs/excercises, but especially in first year there's just too many students for him).

Holy shit this.

>In MY country!
Fuck off, stuck-up asshole. Nobody cares about your shitty country.

>They are literally the opposite of brainlets.
That is simply not the case.

>Also on my uni all STEM majors go through homological algebra and CRing
I love the bullshit that yuros try to spin about their undergrad educations. It's so transparent and hilarious.

Next you'll be telling me every European does complex analysis in freshman year of highschool

This. At my uni Software Engineering is the same rigour as the CS/Math faculty (due to shared courses) with a lot of courses from EE/CompE track thrown in.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

He's literally right

That homosexual was highly influential on starting the serious study of computer science, by formalizing the definition of algorithm among other things, and thus he's probably the reason why you can use your computer to shitpost in an anonymous board.

That homosexual was probably far less of a brainlet than you are.

Try to transfer to Mines.

Software "Engineering" student here. I literally suck my professor's cock all day and pass with flying colors. Long live mother Russia!

He is a brainlet by definition. All computer scientists are brainlets.

>They're literally the opposite of brainlets

hahahahahah

the average university """"""student"""""" is a complete brainlet who spends 15-20 hours per week outisde of class studying

What makes undergraduate linear algebra different at one school versus another?

Not yuropoor, my ignorant burger friend. But no, freshmen do real anal from Tao, complex anal is anal.3 and it's second year class for most students.
But we do take homological algebra in third year and "commutative rings and modules" right after linear algebra, which means second year for most students.
Though i know of a place where *some* students take complex anal as freshmen. That institution regularly places in top3 in IMO and IOI, so it does seem to have an effect.
Just offering a perspective from a fellow 3rd world country. At least our BAs and MAs are not useless and easily get into your grad programs, taking your places :^)

It's not engineering, that much is sure

South Asia?
I know the feel

Just copy and paste from stack overflow (like all progaymers do)

REEEEEEEEEEEEE

>mfw uc davis mechanical engineer
>linear algebra was the only math class I passed the first time through because vectors are literally that easy
Brainless right? [Nervous laugh]
Anyway I assure you the problem is exclusive to our CS majors.
Also some lib arts need to take that class too probably.

>grad school CS
>not easy as fuck
maybe for systems but if you are doing theoretical shit like ML
E-Z

>mah capitalism is the problem
no. Capitalism is what drives most innovation and competition.

He said anal. kek

Source please. If anything capitalism drastically holds back development by focusing on pointless wealth hoarding for the few.