VALPORATE - BRAIN PLASTICITY - PERFECT PITCH

Look at this finds, Veeky Forums!!

>journal.frontiersin.org/article/10.3389/fnsys.2013.00102/full
>theweek.com/articles/453525/pill-could-give-brain-learning-powers-7yearold
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3848041/
Is this real??? Could I use Valproate to teach myself Perfect pitch!? How come no one is talking about this?

Be careful, valproate can damage your liver. Whenever valproate treatment is initiated, liver tests are drawn every few weeks.

God damn it, that sucks mayor time. Thanks for the warning. I really want to give this drug a trial while spending a couple days blinded, playing piano and see if I could actually teach myself perfect pitch.
That would be so fucking awesome. Is there anything I could take to protect my liver while on the drug?

New to thread. But the first thing that comes to mind is milk thistle.

Definitely worth a look, thanks.

acetylcysteine

How would that work?

Look up histone deacetylase (HDAC) inhibitors. They're the proposed mechanism behind valproate's neuroplastic effects.

Remember your biology class? When not in use, DNA is tightly wound around proteins called histones, preventing gene expression by physically blocking transcriptional machinery. But when you add acetyl groups, you loosen the histone-DNA bonds, which allows transcription to occur and gene expression to happen. Normally, acetyl groups would be removed when they're no longer necessary, but HDAC inhibitors prevent this from happening. This means that, for all histone acetylation reliant pathways, once you initiate transcription, you continue transcription until the drug is no longer active.

In a nutshell, valproate increases neuroplasticity by prolonging the transcriptional machinery that enables you to form memories, learn skills, etc. Think about how powerful and dangerous this shit is. After all, your body relies on the creation, modification, and regulation of proteins to carry out all tasks, and why is memory and learning any different? If you extend the "activation period" of recording memories, you can do everything from rewriting traumatic experiences to memorizing the Iliad.

it's used for drug induced liver failure (like paracetamol poisoning)

-- -- --

By the way, don't use valproate if you're going to experiment on yourself. There's safer, cleaner, and more potent compounds that exhibit the same properties. There are like seven classes of HDAC inhibitors, two of which are suspected of being relevant for cognition, and all of them are likely to have negative effects throughout your body if taken for long enough periods of time, so you might as try to limit the damage that you could do to yourself. Remember, your entire body has DNA with histones, so until we develop some sort of HDAC inhibitor analog that's selective for the neurons involved in memory, you're playing a dangerous game by modifying gene expression globally. HDAC inhibitors also double as leukemia drugs... long-term use and you've initiated self-chemotherapy.

Good luck, and try not to accidentally brainwash yourself. Remember, you are prolonging the "activation" period of memory formation if this stuff actually works, so you ought to take responsibility for promoting the best possible environment around you. Excise all negative music. Cover the walls in virtue-affirming posters. Watch wholesome movies. Read intellectually stimulating books. think wholesome thoughts. Clean up your room and take care of yourself, you might as well use the opportunity to ingrain good habits. The last thing you need is solidifying the NEET lifestyle and mentality while trying to learn how to have perfect pitch. I'm sure that you could induce PTSD just as easily as curing it while under the influence of HDAC inhibitors.

>Remember your biology class?

Never had any, but I thank you very much for explaining the process. It seems like this drug has great potential when used in short cycles to intensively focus a subject that inherently benefits from the student having a child-like innate ability to absorb and memorize the information, like perfect pitch & languages.

I see, see it would protect the liver from the Valproate drug?

Good food for thought, I did not consider the possible full fledged effects of the drug. I am pretty excited about this.

>Never had any, but I thank you very much for explaining the process.

No problem. Don't forget, that was the simplified version. The truth is that we only have a cursory understanding of how histone acetylation affects gene expression. We're now learning that acetyl tags can act as tags for decreasing expression, too. HDACs can also target things other than histones. And who knows what are the actual genes/proteins that are implicated in memory encoding processes in our brain and whether HDACs are directly involved at all!

> It seems like this drug has great potential when used in short cycles to intensively focus a subject that inherently benefits from the student having a child-like innate ability to absorb and memorize the information, like perfect pitch & languages.

Yeah, except valproate is also an anti-psychotic, which I highly do not recommend anybody to take unless they're under medical supervision. HDAC inhibitors are dangerous enough in their own side effects, and valproate does much more than inhibit HDAC. Don't take drastic measures. Read up on basic cognitive psychology, molecular biology, and scientific method before you try experimenting with yourself.

The IQ meme will morph into the brain plasticity meme, won't it?

>I see, see it would protect the liver from the Valproate drug?

These concerns are so overblown. If you aren't getting hammered with your valproic acid you'll be fine. Liver signs will tell you to stop. I've been taking this drug for like 10 years. 3* a day at like 200mg a day.

200mg a dose**** not day.

Why do you take valproate?

Epilepsy.

How do you plan on getting your hands on it without getting ripped off/having it confiscated?

Hello user.

I'm deaf and I got a cochlear implant late, so I missed out on the critical period for learning how to understand speech. Do you think that there's any possibility that valporate could assist with this scenario?

Thanks

I wouldn't have the faintest idea. I'm personally baffled that HDACis were able enable some progress into learning absolute pitch. I mean, anybody can learn a skill or memorize some dates, but this has to involve significant neurological changes that we normally don't see in adults. We just don't know enough about how neurobiological processes lead to cognitive processes and how cognitive processes interact with other cognitive processes to figure out what's going on, but we're getting there.

Anecdotally, the only success stories I've heard about HDACis are from two people who used vorinostat (a leukemia drug and powerful HDACi) in tandem with propranolol to conquer social anxiety by conditioning themselves away from it. But desu, with some of the hype that I've seen in nootropics communities, I would have expected more successful reports. I personally wouldn't risk it, especially for things that would require more than intermittent dosing, like let's say changing brain matter over a long period of time.

Can you please tell me about the regimen those two people did for their social anxiety, and dosages?

Fair enough, user.

What drug class is Depakote, or any of the other HDAC inhibitors? If I can buy legit Modafinil and Selegiline from Indian pharmacies, I can't see why I wouldn't be able to easily get my hands on Valproate.

Don't do it user. These are epilepsy drugs. I was prescribed valproate for my epilepsy but I decided to not take it after a while because it causes a lot of psychological problems.

Do your own research, and don't try anything sketchy. If you're going to take a gamble, minimize your risks. Your most potent options include an anti-psychotic and a chemotherapy drug. That's not something to fuck around with. You mess up, and you'll wish for your social anxiety back. If you use these things routinely, and you haven't put your life in order, then you'll do lasting psychological harm if they work.

And don't use valproate for the task. There's less dirty drugs out there with the same MOI. For example, nigella sativa might be potent enough for your task, and it might be an "all in one" solution since it has anxiolytic properties in addition to HDACi properties. If you're going for extreme power, then maybe sporadic use of vorinostat might be an option, but you couldn't do it for long, and it's hard to find legitimate sources.

How long did you take it for?
What problems did you experience?


My plan is to take it for shorts periods of time, 1 month at max just to test if I could learn to identify notes in my piano.

Idiot.

valerian is very similar to valproate but much safer and available pretty much anywhere

Why not just use valerian?

Lmao , pretty much this

Mhm?

I wasn't aware Valerian could treat the same issues as Depakote. Does it work by the same means? Is Valerian also a HDAC inhibitor?