STIMULANTS

Is it worth it getting addicted to shit like Vyvanse/Adderall to be a super productive robot?
-
I feel I could have accomplished many projects that have been lingering in my mind for years, if I had started taking stimulants years ago.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=K6xIspSfo2U
uacap.org/uploads/3/2/5/0/3250432/stimulant_equivalency.pdf
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ejn.13363/full
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17105922
scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=tmr.2016.1.10
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23889188
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Bump

Ask yourself, why would you want that? It's nice to get stuff done but not so nice that you take drugs for it. It seems like this is too important for you: your self worth shouldn't be tied to your projects.

Or you're just procrastinating on Veeky Forums, asking pointless questions, which is totally ok.

if you legitimately think you could have ADHD just try them for a w hile

>Ask yourself, why would you want that?


Because I don't want to reach 30 and still carry the burden of never having complete projects I've been meaning to do for years. It eats me inside.


I have tried ADHD meds and they do work incredible well. I didn't continue because I am spooked for getting addicted, desu.


I am here shitposting, pondering whether or not becoming an addict is fine if I can become a productivity robot.

>Is it worth it getting addicted to shit like Vyvanse/Adderall to be a super productive robot?

Not in the slightest, user. Take it from someone who took Adderall for a prescription. At the end of the day, the only person who has to be proud of your work is you. If you aren't satisfied with it now, you won't be satisfied with it when the drugs are doing the work for you.

>you won't be satisfied with it when the drugs are doing the work for you.


Why not?

Why don't you use them, but just make sure to use them responsibly.

Also, there are drugs you can take that reduce stimulant tolerance.

I'm not going to be able to answer that in a way that satisfies you. Best I can do is ask you if you're looking for the sense of accomplishment of doing something yourself, or just looking to have things be done around you. Do you get a sense of accomplishment from seeing construction workers finish a building? If not, you'll just have to trust me in this.
Ultimately the choice lies with you, and only you can decide whether or not something is good for you. Maybe you'll end up better than I did. Best of luck regardless, user.

i became less productive when i was addicted to them. i wasn't sleeping enough, which caught up to me after a while. i also compulsively seemed pleasure, so i would masturbate, shitpost, or play games for hours. also fucked up my mental health by amplifying social anxiety and making me depressed. this is at a point where i was taking sometimes more than 100+ mg a day.

i also went through a period where i would only take 20mg a day. this was essentially no different than taking none at all after a while because i developed a tolerance. i would crash at the end of the day though and couldn't be productive if i wanted to.

now i don't take any and i'm able to be productive for most of the day, with reasonable breaks. i've had to learn how to make myself study and do homework even when i'm lethargic though. not taking any has also had a positive effect on my social life and mental health. however, i believe that if taken in moderation - no more than once or twice a week at reasonable doses - it could help you study and do homework in large quantities and learn more deeply.

I've been on Dexamphetamine and Modafinil for short periods of time. I don't think there's a better feeling in this world than making progress on your projects and being so invested in your work, you spend up to 15 hours a day working on them.


I don't really see drug taking as cheating, the same way I don't see being prone to anhedonia someone handicapping me. It's just the way it is, and it is up to you to do something about it, if you feel like it.
-

I think I already made my mind, but came here to Shitpost looking for reassurance of something that sooner or later is going to bite me in the ass. Yet, I know I am going to die one day anyway and feel I might as well be 100% there while I live. Anhedonia and procrastination suck ass.
What reduces tolerance? That's pretty interesting

>i believe that if taken in moderation - no more than once or twice a week at reasonable doses - it could help you study and do homework in large quantities and learn more deeply.

I see...taking it everyday would really be a constant battle against tolerance building + higher dosage and thus higher side effects. When I tried Dex, it was only 5mg pills and they worked great for me, but only did it for 1 week, desu. A friend of mine gave them to me.

memantine

Dexedrine is better, it's pure dextroamphetamine

Addiction is mental, not chemical. Chances are you won't develop a chemical dependency on Adderall. Take it while convincing yourself that you won't get addicted and you won't.

>amphetamine addiction is mental

I think the ones my friend gave me were generic Dexamphetamines. I am guessing it's the same thing?

Yes. If you're too mentally weak to be able to handle meth then you should probably just off yourself.

Stim withdrawal can kill you if you are too hard into it. That sounds chemical to me.

>t. Deluded meth addict

Serious question: How else do you develop a work ethic when it comes to schoolwork and projects?

I used it very frequently at uni but during the summer I only took one pill, I don't have any cravings but my brain is relaxed which I don't like, I rather it be in hyperdrive all the time.

Obliviously I don't have any dependence, as long as you don't do too much increasing your tolerance you're gonna be ok.

Bumping for this.


It's not only that I am unorganized, is that I become forgetful and experience anhedonia very often. It's only when I am regularly doing stims that I suddenly realize how much fucking time I am wasting.

Yeah, life is not worth living to me in a constant state of procrastination and never having energy/giving up. I'll rather be 100% there and get somewhere, at least to the point where I am not burden by having failed in the past so many times, when by now I could have achieved my goals, had I managed to keep going, somehow.
I am ordering Selegilne from an Indian pharmacy and giving it a try, if that doesn't work I'll ask my doc for ADHD meds.

>you won't be satisfied with it when the drugs are doing the work for you.

Are you retarded? Drugs don't do work, they enhance your own abilities to do work.

Do you drink coffee? Or are you worried that it will do all of your work for you and you'll be miserable and unfulfilled?

Better stop eating healthily too, don't want to cheat yourself out of the satisfaction of getting your work done without all of those faggy vitamins helping you cheat

>These muscles I got sure are in no way related to the steroids I took, and I should be proud of myself for all the hard work I did in taking so much! It feels exactly the same as if I had just eaten protein like some fag!
You're taking an argument to its extreme and trying to sound like anything other than a reactionary addict. It's not working well for you.

In this world you're only considered as valuable as the value you create. What else are you supposed to tie your self-worth to? We procrastinators really got the short end of the stick on this one; our options are either embrace stimulant use, with all the problems therein, or eternally be considered worthless trash by the entirety of society despite our honest best efforts.

>>These muscles I got sure are in no way related to the steroids I took

Steroids or not, you still have to work if you want gains. Steroids alone won't give you shit. How do you balance out having extremely good genetics? Are people who are born with a super high IQ + high dopamine levels cheaters too?

This. I am 22 now. I've been procrastinating things I wanted to do since I was 17. I could have achieved most of the things I wanted by now had I taken stimulants then.


Fuck procrastination. I am tired as fuck of procrastination/anhedonia and being forgetful.

It's amazing isn't it. I was lucky enough to get on stimulants at a young age so that I could be basically functional throughout my adolescence.

They're nowhere near perfect though and I could be doing so much better if I'd just been born with a functional brain that would actually give me dopamine sometimes. It hurts.

Am i a brainlet for just drinking coffee and doing nicotine lozenges? I’m too shy to try to beg my doctor for shit and don’t want my health recors to say i am mental. Too pussy and poor to buy from a dealer too.

>Steroids alone won't give you shit.
This is false. People on steroids gain muscle without even working out. IIRC they actually gain more in the same time period as natties gain when they are working out.

The amount of muscle the gain is FUCKING MINIMAL. I've seen plenty of retards go on steroids and gain next to nothing because they didn't lift, they drank alcohol and didn't sleep.

>I don't want to reach 30 and still carry the burden of never having complete projects I've been meaning to do for years. It eats me inside.
tfw this is me.

the analogy is shit anyway. yes, taking steroids will increase the rate of and your capacity for building muscle, but ultimately you won't make substantial gains unless you put in the work that the people that aren't taking steroids also put in.

in the same way, taking stimulants might make you sharper, but if you actually want to learn and do well in class, then you'll need to put in the same work that people that don't take stimulants do

How are you dealing with it? Have you find success with stims?

>How are you dealing with it? Have you find success with stims?
Never even attempted to try to get with any doctor or tried to get any medications. Actually started thought about it a few years ago but there are a few things working against me. I procrastinate seeing a doctor about it, and even if I did do it then I'd probably procrastinate doing all the stuff I'd have to do, like the tests and constantly needing to go make new appointments every few months or however long it is. Btw that's not all I procrastinate on, all my financial stuff and bills, and when I was in school everything was always late, and at work they wanted me to take a class but I never got around to doing it. The only reason I'm even on four chins right now is I'm procrastinating from doing something else that was itself a distraction from something else that I was doing and so on the rabbit hole goes.
I recall when I was in elementary school they tried to force my parents to put me on ritalin but they refused.

Sounds all too relatable to me, desu. I have only been able to find success by doing a combo of Stimulants, exercise, healthy diet and (this is very important) writing on paper my plans, goals and how to realistically achieve them.

I just don't see the point of living life without stims. Whatever it's wrong with me, be it genetics/mentality or my financial situation is not going to change anytime soon, and I don't want to become so old I don't even think about trying anymore.
-

I cannot imagine a more horrible fate, might as well an hero at that point.

Never use Vyvanse or Adderal to temporarily emulate hyper-focus. The results of abusing the drug is the artificial development of ADD and ADHD. Unless you want to be an un-focused shit for the rest of your life i would suggest not doing that.

I am thinking Selegiline right now, already bought it from online pharmacy.

Enjoy having no life user...

>Implying what I have now is living


I was doomed to suffer regardless, I might as well suffer while getting thingsdone. Fuck being 30 and still being in this room, living in the woods of a shithole with nothing to do and no one to talk to.

I do a little caffeine. I'm all but quitting everything but that I feel I don't have time for even alcohol.

Are you working/studying? I feel a lot of my problems would go away if I was in a structured setting with goals and expectations. A big part of procrastinating for me, comes from having to make my own path from the chaos of not knowing.

what if i already have adhd?

I take 40mg of vyvanve and it just turns me into a robot. I'm not any more productive, just more tired and depressed. I'm addicted though now.

I just said to myself on the morning of my first day of grad school
>I want to get 95%+ on all my work
Then I started staying at uni 9-5, spending that whole time, and only that time on classes and study. I also sorted out my diet, sleep and exercise.
It's worked so far, 96% average for one semester.

By having all my effort at the same time each day and having a solid chunk of allocated free time, it was easy to stay positive and work hard.

pretty much this OP...

OP may I suggest studying Islam. Like actual read the entire Qur' An to yourself.

Your first step will be realizing that you can't do this alone.

Best of luck.

[citation needed]

This

>"His colleague Alfréd Rényi said, "a mathematician is a machine for turning coffee into theorems",[17] and Erdős drank copious quantities (this quotation is often attributed incorrectly to Erdős,[18] but Erdős himself ascribed it to Rényi[19]). After 1971 he also took amphetamines, despite the concern of his friends, one of whom (Ron Graham) bet him $500 that he could not stop taking the drug for a month.[20] Erdős won the bet, but complained that during his abstinence, mathematics had been set back by a month: "Before, when I looked at a piece of blank paper my mind was filled with ideas. Now all I see is a blank piece of paper."[citation needed] After he won the bet, he promptly resumed his amphetamine use."
If Paul Erdos could do it, why can't we?

You're thinking of alcohol and benzos. Stim withdrawal can fuck you up, but it's not lethal.

alcohol isn't a stimulant. it hinders any type of studying or work. I really can't understand how the "engineering students in Britain drink all the time" came to be.

Yes. It feels good to be amped up and it feels good to be productive. Amphetamines don't turn you into a robot exactly, they just give you so much energy that you compulsively get shit done (like how a meth head will clean EVERYTHING IN THE HOUSE when they're spun out). It will increase your creativity (due to increased alertness), not decrease it.

There are cons however (though not everyone gets them):
>Speed Dick - basically shrinkage like what you get when you go swimming. You can still get a boner like normal and everything but you don't want to whip out your dick in front of a girl while you're still soft.
>Appetite Suppression - Varies from person to person, you might simply forget to eat due to not feeling hungry or you might actually have trouble getting food down (or you may not show symptoms at all).
>Palpitations - Your heart will beat irregularly. If you get this symptom then your dosage is too high and you should take a lower dosage.
>Prostate Enlargement - A rarer symptom, seems to occur with large doses of stimulants in general (for some people). Basically your bladder won't empty out completely when you piss so you'll have to take a piss more often. Also you'll get urine trickling out for longer after pissing and it may look like some sort of urinary incontinence.

Also, different variants of the medication release different amounts of the drug and are effective for different amounts of time. All of them have a come-down effect where you'll get real sleepy (and possibly hungry). When that hits will depend on the drug and is the main reason there are so many different variants.

Also, it's not a fucking magic pill. It will increase your alertness and motivation but how you use that is up to you. Some people for instance will squander the effects by spending all day masturbating. Others will spend all day getting shit done.

Spoken like a true beta male. Chads know that you should seize every opportunity to help you get ahead of the pack

>I am spooked for getting addicted, desu.
Go browse erowid and look at the stories of people who do that shit recreationally. They take massive doses far larger than anything you would be prescribed (moreover they grind that shit up and snort it).

As long as you aren't taking the drugs for the euphoria (that "good" feeling it gives you) and asking for/abusing higher dosages then you're fine.

Everyone has the freedom to choose how to find meaning in their life. If user values their projects then who are we to judge them?

More importantly, who cares if you take drugs to achieve the things you want to do (unless it's competitive sports or something). Especially if you're taking them to treat symptoms/problems that other people don't have then there is nothing wrong with it. Even otherwise though it's not a big deal, who cares if Erdos accomplished everything he did because he was on amphetamines 24/7?

This user clearly describes some of the things to watch out for when you're on them. Sleep deprivation, pleasure seeking, and tolerance are definite things to watch out for. Do note however that you are not obligated to take them every day, many people only take them on days they work or when they think they need them (modern doctor's understand).

If you decide to use them then be very clear with yourself about YOUR REASONS for using them and ask yourself from time to time if they are still fulfilling your original goals. More generally. always be responsible with your health.

Tolerance is weird as fuck. Back in the day I was on 15 mg of ritalin and it was great. Then I stopped taking them for about 10 years and recently started again on dex. However, I'd been consuming so much caffeine that they had to bump me up to 30mg pretty quickly (with an option to go to 45mg whenever) before I started seeing any effect.

No man, withdrawals can be dangerous. It's one thing to binge drink on weekends and another thing to drink every day to the point where stopping can send your body into alcohol withdrawal and even kill you.

If you have ADHD/ADD then there are lots of techniques but their effectiveness varies from person to person. Sometimes the techniques themselves can become a problem or point of friction to getting shit done and feeling motivated. There's also products like smart pens that can help you compensate for spacing out.

If you don't have ADHD/ADD then you should be able to trim down your list of projects and shit. Stop wasting time on disthose things are harder on your body.tracting time sinks and reassess your mental health (burn-out, depression, and anxiety can be problems for productivity too). Taking a break can be good too.

>experience anhedonia very often
Talk to a counselor at your university or community.

You may want to see a counselor. Sometimes depression and/or anxiety can be misdiagnosed as or comorbid with ADHD/ADD.

This.

Do you want muscles or do you want a pat on the back for having muscles? ADHD/ADD people who use meds to get through their lives just want to be in control of their life and be as functional/productive as they know they can be.

Don't care about what society thinks user. At the end of the day only you can look back on your life and judge the way you've chosen to live. If you want to work nights at a gas station so you can spend all your mental stamina working on personal projects only you care about then do that. If you want to become a researcher for some firm so you can have a lot of money for whatever, then do that.

Yes, those are harder on your body. Don't go with dealers, that shit can be cut, laced, fake, and it's a felony if you get caught.

What is your current situation? Maybe you could see a counselor who can guide you to better resources?

Kill yourself druggie.

>want to get help
>ADD so strong it keeps me from getting my shit together enough to get help

What sort of exercise and diet do you do? I have a bunch of huge whiteboards on my walls (got them for free from some school that was remodeling but you can get some nice ones for cheap at habitat for humanity). Those are super helpful. I also tried using the wunderlist app for a while but didn't really catch on with me.

I feel the same way though. Without stims my life is total chaos.

It's not really meant for inducing hyperfocus. Rather it's meant for treating all the other symptoms that seriously fuck with ADD/ADHD people's lives. This includes:
>Piles and piles of unfinished hobbies/projects/etc.. sometimes hundreds/thousands of browser tabs & bookmarks.
>Spacing out in the middle of conversations/lectures/meetings/etc.. (still responding in conversation but stuff goes in one ear and out the other) in some cases even during movies/tv shows/driving/etc..., happens often and without the person noticing till it's too late.
>Chronic lateness (to everything, no matter how important it is).
>Disorganized everything
>hyperfocus
>forgetfulness
>sleep schedule issues
>Also stuff like thrill-seeking behavior (makes people feel engaged). eg. speeding while driving, but also criminal stuff is common.
>etc...

I used to do that shit while not on stims. It worked until I got massive burnout. Best of luck to you, user.

pic related

Alcohol/partying can help people vent off emotions and help motivation. It shouldn't be mixed with stims though since it lowers your seizure threshold and can make it easier to hit alcohol poisoning without noticing.

Dex is pure dextroamphetamine, that much is correct. Whether or not it's better depends on the individual. Stims fall into a two categories and they can then be classified further.

>Ampetamine based
Adderall - A mix of several amphetamine salts including dextroamphetamine
Dexadrine - Pure dextroamphetamine
Vyvanse - Prodrug for dextroamphetamine
...
>Methylphenidate based
Ritalin - Methylphenidate
Concerta - Methylphenidate
Biphentin - Methylphenidate
KP484 - Prodrug for Methlphenidate
...

Different chemicals or mixes of chemicals can have different effects on different people. Moreover, many of the above come in varieties with all sorts of different pharmacokinetics (specifically bioavailability based on the delivery method). Some will kick in hard and fast but not last very long. Others will kick in slow and not very hard but last for a long time (you can view graphs of these if you look around for pharmacokinetics/bioavailability of [drug]).

The big problem with these drugs has been figuring out ways to make them last longer and not hit so hard. A lot of the drug varieties only vary in the way they try to solve the problem. Concerta for instance uses a crazy technique where the pill itself won't digest but will instead empty out over time via a pump mechanism.
youtube.com/watch?v=K6xIspSfo2U
Dexadrine (spansule) uses beads that dissolve at different rates (eg. some are just sugar+dex and dissolve immediately, others take a few hours) a mix of different beads is packaged inside the same pill.

A prodrug is a non-active chemical that gets metabolized into an active chemical inside the body. This is yet another technique to try to extend time span of the dosage. Prodrugs don't break down into 100% active metabolyte, they typically produce some other chemical as well so a 20mg vyvanse pill is not produce 20mg dexadrine. The thing to look at is bioavailability.

uacap.org/uploads/3/2/5/0/3250432/stimulant_equivalency.pdf

>The thing to look at is bioavailability and chemical(s).
fixed, sorry

This. Stims aren't a magic fix all solution. They are a tool and their usefulness depends on how you use them.

Stims can also be dangerous when misused. So yes, go ahead and use them if you think they can improve your life, but be responsible and mindful of the dangers. Do not use them at the expense of your health (physical and/or mental) and stop using them if they're making your life worse.

Meth, you do it because it is subjectively and objectively the best, and because long lasting damage is yet to be proven in humans.

Just remember to take your vitamin d.

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ejn.13363/full

better living through chemistry

I'm going to my psych today and I'm going to bring this up. Everything I've read so far about adult ADHD is looking super familiar, so I'm going to run it by an expert.

Honestly at this point as I'm learning how much time and effort I need to put in to get what I want out of life, I just want to be in a position to actually put in the work.

One of my concerns about going to talk to some doctor/pych about is that there is a nonzero probability they think I'm making it up to seek drugs and then put that down on my medical records and then having DSB on your medical records means later it will become more difficult. And then that's no the end of the potential hassle, I have a close friend that everytime she gets her prescription renewed and goes to the pharmacy to get it filled they hassle her and call her doctor and to verify it's real and one time the doctor wasnt in the office so the pharmacy refused to fill the prescription. I guess people assume you're guilty all the time.

>just be a destitute gas station worker your entire life fuck society bro

Are you kidding me? This is like the least helpful response ever written by mortal man. Obviously I WANT to be successful but the problem lies in convincing myself to do fucking anything because my brain doesn't see any prospect for the feeling of reward and hence won't let me if it seems even slightly difficult. I DON'T WANT TO BE A FAILURE

Thoughts on Modafinil?

Take days off, use chelated magnesium supplement in the evening to reduce tolerance through NMDA, and monitor your blood pressure and heart rate to help you figure out your optimal dose, so your productivity isn't complemented by stage 1 hypertension. Don't drink either on it.

I'm not really ADHD but my psych gives me whatever the hell I want.

Switched from Ritalin to dexamphetamine and I literally can't feel anything, am I missing something?

>magnesium reduce tolerance through NMDA
kek, no. the only "reduce tolerance" you get with amphetamine type stimulants are substances that increase production of dopamine, like vitamin d

magnesium might slightly mediate neurotoxicity, but if that's your goal there are plenty of other supplements suggested by research to reduce dopamine neurotoxicity (ex. coq10, melatonin)

I got prescribed Adderall XR 15mg and don't feel anything lol

30 is where it's at. I hope you didn't fuck yourself by accepting that small dose right away.

>Lasting damage is yet to be proven
>Need to mediate neurotoxicity.
I don't know what to believe anymore. Also, I'm pretty sure what you're saying about magnesium goes against common knowledge. Why do you guys think vitamin D helps so much? I've been in this game for over a decade and I've never heard such a thing.

>successful
>failure
user, what you should seek is fulfillment. You only live this life once and when it's over that's all you get. If becoming wealthy is what fulfillment means for you then go for it and don't let anything stand in your way. However not everyone finds fulfillment in the same things you do. Personally, I find politicians, celebrities, and other "paragons of success" to be detestable human beings who do little more than leach off society.

This.

I started generic adderall at 10mg in my 1st year of undergrad. Went from around a 65 avg in my math/stats dbl major to about 91. Currently taking 25mg a day once a day. Never miss a dose except on days where I am fully committed to taking a break.

i'm talking about actual research.

It's sort of funny to me because the magnesium thing was one of the first things i "learned" about amphetamine, reading about it on bluelight or drug-fourm. Sometimes they even include the research they are talking about, but more often than not, they misinterpret the research to support some wild claim of harm reduction. (and it literally goes unnoticed)

Here's some of what i've found in support of harm reduction, though Vitamin D isn't really harm reduction, it increases expression of tyrosine hydroxylase(which amphetamines decrease), which is the major enzyme involved in producing dopamine.

Vitamin D
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17105922

CoQ10
scialert.net/fulltext/?doi=tmr.2016.1.10

Melatonin
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23889188


It would seem a common theme with stimulant toxicity is oxidative stress produced by an increase of dopamine outside the cell, and antioxidants help
attenuate this. Plus these antioxidants are readily available and have little to no side effects. Selenium is another supplement of interest for stimulant toxicity.

Also when i said lasting damage is yet to be proven i only mean that in the human brain, there is ambiguous evidence to the recovery of dopamine terminals/function throughout the brain of abstinent stim users. It was sort of a hyperbolic irony, sarcastic about the scare-tactics that was meth/amp research in the past, versus today, where research is more focused twards finding Parkinsons treatments and is much more relevant to humans.

Makes pee smell bad.

Makes you stay awake.