Why do the planets orbit on a plane?

all matter exerts a gravitational force on all other matter
basically the bigger clumps of gas attract more and more gas

What if we take the idea of the gravitational field having something a the center of it?

I'm not sure what you're asking
You're suggesting that there was a "seed" of our system?
Doesn't need to be

N-body simulations of bodies of gas under the influence of their own gravity and otherwise free do collapse into a disk form if they have sufficient angular momentum.

If we just take the simple idea of gravity being a spherical field for now, why can't we have the idea of something special on the equator of that field?
Seems to be the case when we run water down a pipe exactly on the Earth's equator.
People say Coriolis effect but that doesn't sit right with me.

>if they have sufficient angular momentum.
Is there any real world possibility where a real gas cloud could not have enough angular momentum?

It also makes you think since that angular momentum is preserved, what was the reservoir that all angular momentum has been drawn?
I mean, what WAS that reservoir?

It's less complicated than that, mate

Imagine you have a whole field full of magnets. Every magnet wants to latch onto the other magnet.
But they're all equidistant. You can see how they're all frozen in place
But what if... Just one.. Is nudged a little closer to another
Then al those magnets suddenly fall into the core of that first nudged magnet

Gravity is just like that
But even weaker

I've seen simulations of it, but I've never seen gas behave like that.

What if there's something from keeping everything from touching? What if magnetism has a push effect?

You're right
There IS something from keeping things from touching.

There are four fundamental forces
Strong
Weak
Electromagnetic
Gravity

It's been a while since I've studied this. And I'm a little drunk
But I think it's the WEAK Force that keeps shit from really touching.
Everything else wants to clump up.
But the Weak Force stops it from getting real close
So we have atoms and matter instead of just a near infinite amount of black holes.
Weak Force keeps things just the right amount apart so that things are close enough to interact but not enough to self destruct.

Or I could be wrong and I've forgotten the real thing that makes atoms atoms and not just electrons plunging into protons to finally be whole.

it's the electromagnetic force that keeps things from touching
then at really close distances the strong force kicks in (which is why protons stick together in nuclei)
the weak force is responsible for radioactive decay

Wouldn't the EM Force keep protons away from each other?
I thought nuclear cohesion was a Strong Force thing

Ah yes. I understand now. Blood is like a blueberry. It has layers.

basically particles of the same charge want to repel due to the Coulomb force
>everything of the same charge repels
>because of wave-particle duality eventually some particles "tunnel" because their wavelength exceeds the range limit of the strong force
>the strong force keeps things together (through gluons)

What if we find a way to merge all those forces?
They must be related in some way or another.

But then we have to revise the atomic model.
I'm going to suggest that the atom is empty on the inside, that makes a lot more sense to me.

At the very center of this strong force, there should be nothing.

yes protons want to repel
but they quantum tunnel and interact with the strong force and stick together

we have merged 3 of them with models
it's gravity that hasn't been solved yet
basically there is no quantum theory of gravity yet

>They must be related in some way or another.
Yes.
Says the Grand Unification Theory
Which Einstein started on
And then died

And we've been rattling around since with no progress
It's physics Holy Grail.
Find a way to make all Forces into an expression of one mathematical constant.
And from then, you take one measurement and know everything about a thing

Have you ever seen gas outside of a planet's atmosphere?

I know it's the Strong Force that likes to keep samesies together
I know it's the EM Force that wants opposites to attract
But what does Weak Force do?
I know "radioactivity"
But I'm talking about what does it do in the atom

it changes the "flavour" of quarks which cause particles to decay into others

So if Strong is like "Everyone go East"
And EM is like "If you want to go East, fuck off go West"
And Gravity is "East, West, whatever, go hump each other"
Does Weak mean "Fuck East or West, go NORTH"

no it's not like that
basically everything we know interacts through these 4 forces

without gravity there are no stars
without the electromagnetic force there is no sort of radiation
without the strong force there are no nuclei (therefore no atoms)
and without the weak force there are no decays

it's just the way things are (as far as we know)
if you want to understand forces like the strong and weak force you need a little background in quantum mechanics
it's hard to explain classically

Not at all.

You can't explain the weak force in terms of the others because it's phenomenologically distinct. Ultimately, it's because the symmetry associated with the force is broken

Read this, it's really cool
scaruffi.com/phi/syn30.html

this
the weak force violates the law of parity conservation
this means that the interaction cares about orientation. in particular "left and right-handed particles"
basically all other forces look the same if you were to mirror them, but the weak interaction doesn't

Can someone explain Weak Force to me in a way that makes sense in a way that you can imagine real things reacting to?

I'll try.

Basically matter (as far as we know) is made of elementary particles and their antiparticles.
>Leptons (electrons, neutrinos, muons, and taus)
>and Quarks (which have 6 flavors: up, down, top, bottom, strange, and charm)
Quarks are the particles which stick together (via the strong interaction) to form the baryons (protons, antiprotons, neutrons, etc.)

The different combinations of quark "flavors" is what creates the different baryons
>uud (up + up + down) = proton
>udd = neutron

The weak interaction acts on this "flavor" property of matter (much like gravity acts on the mass property)

What does Weak do to Quarks?
If Strong makes them stick together to make Baryons, what does Weak do?

Also, what are the other combinations of Quarks?
Regular matter is only made of seemingly two types of Quarks (and Leptons)

Now. All forces have a "carrier" or boson.

the weak force has three
>W+
>W-
>Z
known as the W&Z bosons
these bosons are extremely massive (almost 100 times the mass of a proton) but are extremely short-lived
the heavy mass restricts the force to very short ranges

so basically when something decays the weak interaction changes the flavor which "emits" a W or Z boson which then itself quickly decays like in pic related where a neutron decays into a proton

How does a particle emit a carrier which is heavier than itself?
If a neutron emits a Weak Force boson that makes it become a proton, where did the mass of the boson come from if the neutron was similar in weight to the proton it would become?

The weak force enables quarks and leptons to change flavor by emitting or absorbing a mediating particle (what we in the business call a gauge boson). For example, a down quark may change flavor to an up quark if it emits a negatively charged W boson (or absorbs a positively charged W boson). That thing it emitted has a rather large mass, making it unstable. It then often decays into a pair of leptons (really a lepton and anti-lepton like the electron and neutrino).

This is the process known as beta decay.

>what are other combinations of quarks
Look up the quark model of baryons. There are quite a few combinations one can make out of quarks.

How does a particle emit a carrier which is heavier than itself?
it has to have an excess of kinetic energy

>There are quite a few combinations one can make out of quarks.
Are there any that exist in nature aside form our regular bunch? If the do/don't then why/whynot?
Why are protons/neutrons the most stable baryons? Is the universe just randomly biased in that direction?

>it has to have an excess of kinetic energy
Does that mean that hotter things are heavier?

>Are there any that exist in nature aside form our regular bunch?
yes, look up mesons which are made of two quarks instead of 3
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mesons

as for baryons
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_baryons

I normally resent Wikipedia links
But clearly I don't know enough
Thanks for the directions

Maybe I'll be back later this week with more questions once I get to the bottom of this shit

It's a matter of counting. Quarks carry a charge under the strong force (color) and the confinement hypothesis is that all bound states of quarks must be color neutral. So that severely limits the number of ways you can put quarks together. A quark and an anti quark can be color neutral, and so can three quarks. Or 5 quarks where one is an anti-quark. or 4 where 2 are anti... you get the point.

The magic number 3 has to do with the symmetry group of the strong interaction.

besides that, the quesrion now becomes how many flavors of quarks are there? The answer is currently 6 have been discovered, and for the theory to be consistent with experiment, the number of total flavors possible has an upper limit (that depends on the number of scalar fields as well). Currently, we know there CANNOT be more than 16 flavors.

The rest is combinatorics. With 6 flavors you get something like 50 baryons in total. It's a regular zoo of particles.

I just wanted to show you lists so that you could see that there are more possibilities.

However to understand this subject there's A LOT you need to know before you can grasp what's going on.

I'd suggest starting with quantum mechanics so you can at least come to terms with things like quantum numbers and particle interactions

No, never.

I'm saying drop the particles for now.
No one knows what's happening there, let's just focus on a simple thing like gravity.

Gravity isn't simple.
It's probably the most important question in physics.
What happens in a black hole?

We'll don't worry about black holes either.
You ever seen one? Anyone ever seen one? Ever been in one?
Who cares for now.

All we want to know is what gravity is.
So we're just taking it slow. Let's just take the hint about orbits for now. What can we do with that information?

>I normally resent Wikipedia links
There are only two cases when wikipedia REALLY can't be trusted:
>A matter is heavily debated/controversial in popular media, in which case Wikipedia will inevitably take a site to present as a "truer" one, and it doesn't necessarily have to be the one with more scientific backing
or
>A matter is completely obscure, and most people have never heard of it. In that case, the pool of editors is so small that they can easily force their own opinions, theories, or straight up mistakes, and it will go uncorrected forever.
Otherwise you are reasonably safe to get incomplete, but fairly reliable information

More important question, why did the asteroid belt get all of the dope-as-fuck rare earth minerals? Yeah I know tectonic plates swallow that shit up around here, but why isn't the moon totally littered with all of the dank asteroid material? No tectonic activity on that bitch!

>I mean, what WAS that reservoir?
The star that went supernova to create the gas cloud.

>star is spinning
>star goes boom
>gas cloud is now spinning

we already know how orbits work
ever since Kepler we've had a good idea of how big things orbit around each other
then with Einstein and GR we had a better idea

the thing that's left to figure out is what does gravity do at very small scales which includes singularities

this
we've observed young solar systems and that theory is supported

Ohhh you're so smart

>What if we find a way to merge all those forces?
You can, if you get them really, really, really hot (and thus cancel out the boson-field effect).

Suffice to say, everything is related, but things separate into stuffs via cascades as they cool, these things begin affecting each other in different ways, thus ya eventually end up with four forces and various particles, mass, elements, and other shit that makes the universe you see today.

Also, don't fall into the trap assuming things work how you "feel" they should work. Most of the things we know about physics are shit people didn't initially like, often shit even the people who discovered them didn't like, but after trial and error and experiment after experiment, and observation after observation, turned out to be true anyways. More than one physicist has ended up saying, "My equations turned out to be smarter than I was.", while trying to defeat their own theories.

Look deep enough into most any theory you don't like, and you'll find out it's nonetheless true. If anything, the more you hate it, the more likely it's true, because you probably weren't the first one to hate it, and everyone else has already tried to defeat it.

Shit be weird, Horatio.

Slanted objects eventually cancel each other out to form an accretion disk. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accretion_disk
There are many theories but it's still an open question in Physics.
Also, remember, "model" of an atom, atom's don't actually look like that.

gravity well

what kind of size and distance a object would need to have to block the sun in the entire earth's surface, assuming it's a planet orbiting closer to the sun at the same plane as earth?

it's funny if you're not a fucking brainlet

not gonna read through the thread but it probably has something to do with the symmetries of a black hole right?

Plants form using the left over material from the accretion disc, so they always start orbiting around the same plane.

Is this generally the case with most other planetary systems?

This tbqh
there a reason all of the good shit is in the asteroid belt?

I actually have no clue, but if it is a large planet that broke apart, you'd have all that inner planet cooked goodness just floating about. Not sure if that's what actually happened though - last I read on the subject said it was the result of a protoplanet that Jupiter's gravity prevented the full formation of, in which case it probably never had the chance to form a proper planet and create the pressures required.

But there's theories running about that the solar system itself formed as a result of multi-nova compression - that we were squished between two nebulas, one of which that was exploding, way back when. So it could be the juicy "elemental rainbow" bits of an exploded star just got trapped in that orbit thanks to Jupiter's fat ass, during its early formation, and said fat ass has been keeping it from forming a planet ever since.

Bit odd that there isn't another such belt on the other side of Jupiter though, and perhaps a thinner one beyond Saturn, though the spacing gets pretty wide that far out.