What are some good critiques of identity politics?

Yeah. But Marxists hated it and critiqued it relentlessly.

BLM has morphed from being *about* police brutality and is now engaged in identity politics. If you don't see this then you're probably lucky enough not to live around these people.

when they stop writing shit that's less incoherent than a facebook post

What books are you basing your opinion on?

Idpol is rooted not in metaphysical foundations (in fact most academics may say that it's a compromise), it is imstead rooted in materialistic ones.
Most identitarian movements are usually some sort of resistance against actual oppression. Identifying as a transgender people may seem pathetic to us (who mostly don't care about these things) but it becomes necessary in the moment in wich your rights are being denied. How else would you cohordinate such a movement? Would you build it upo common decency? That's even more unrealistic.

I just don't see how being given the opportunity to wear an advert for nike on the side of your head is seen as a step forward. Capitalism, not even once.

Holy shit user, you're clueless.

can't wait for WW3 between us vs muslims vs russians vs koreans vs africans
shits gonna be so cash

That's more about identifying with a brand. Thanks, hyper consumerism.

And civil nationalism is based on nationalism, yet they won't stop bitching at each other.
You can't take a maxim, replace a few words, and call it the same.

Because human beings that are able to must identify with a brand. It's not like they're selling us products anymore, but instead they sell lifestyles. You're a part of the lifestyle, right? All the cool kids are. Don't you want to be included?

I must define myself by what I buy and where I shop.

I think about this sometimes and compare my friend and I. He will wear clothing with Aeropostal logos or any other "mall" store. Meanwhile, I wear plain t-shirts with pockets. He is either happy with or ignorant of the fact that he pays money to advertise for them. Reminds me of those "selfie" campaigns companies pull.

Disgusting.

Descriptions are not definitions and labels don't define the individual. By putting a title over yourself like it defines you you become a slave to a generalization, thus reducing any nuance of your personality that doesn't fit the generalization (part of what makes you an individual) in favor of trying to normalize yourself within the limits of the label. Become the stereotype of the label to always fit in somewhere.

It is trying to take a piece for the all because being an individual and not always fitting perfectly anywhere seems too hard. It is a quest for validation via secondary traits and i don't like it.

Even people like Fukuyama and Huntington say this. Watching the last election was like the last chapter of Political Decay, where the left splintered their entire base on purpose, and then tried to defend their doing so.

The American left is pretty much the American right lite version though.

>a man cannot be a class unto himself. The proliferation of individualist causes (id politics) will do nothing but split the power base of the proletariat.

I fucking hate American media. Especially this buzzfeed tier crap: "WE JUST NOTICED THIS PROGRESSIVE THING HAPPENED AND IT'S AMAZING!!!!!"

Exactly, identity politics are a bourgeois distraction meant to split the proles into smaller groups that fight against each other and waste their time bickering over petty things rather than possibly hurting the bottom line by assembling and achieving actual economic reforms in their common interest.

Why let poor whites and poor blacks, for instance, band together and claw back some of the wealth of the upper class when you can pit them against each other and have the political stakes be inconsequential to you regardless of who wins.

I wonder who's behind this post. . . .

It wouldn't be so bad if they had an actual remote clue about what is progressive.

>no, black and trans people are fine!
>no they're not protesting for actual reason! They're not oppressed! They're just misguided by the bourgeoisie!

FFS stop equating resistance movements with shitty posts you find on tumblr and facebook. All these groups are facing actual oppression, and idpol is a efficient way to deal with it.
Stop pretending that without idpol movements people will just stop being pieces of shit.

>All these groups are facing actual oppression
el oh el

This.
Their definition of progressive literally is that image: "muslims are just as much consumers as we are!"

The sad fact is that, while "Classical Marxists" want to claim that idpol isn't real Marxism, it might as well be, because Marx was wrong where he needed to be most right.

Now you have non-tumblr Marxists fighting the tumblr Marxists.

Just accept it: Marxism can't beat capitalism.

> be /pol/
> go to Veeky Forums to source ammo to BTFO sjw's and identity politics
> get told Marx.

But Marxists like capitalism and view it as a necessary mode of production in their teleological view of history........Marxist-Leninism however....

Capitalism will never implode like Marx claimed. Nations will never dissolve like Marx claimed. Money won't disappear like Marx claimed. Capitalism didn't emerge from feudalism in the way Marx claimed.

Time to find a new hobby.

Marxism-Leninism shared the same exact opinion in its infancy. The original goal of the Soviet revolution was to trigger revolutionary movements in countries such as Germany and the UK.

Still trying to figure out how Marxist-Leninism wasn't simply state capitalism.

Trotsky figured out that Marxism was a dead-end.

i actually would like one of these to keep my glorious hair intact as i frolic laps around the track

>good
there really are none

the only point now is tribalism and fighting and excluding other identities

Neither Marx's economic focus nor Agamben's coming community and inoperativity are strong enough to trump it

>Still trying to figure out how Marxist-Leninism wasn't simply state capitalism.
It was for the most part, since they had to industrialize, and later on they had to keep that pace in order to defend themselves from the US and eventually spread communism in Europe.

It wasn't real communism in the sense that every government effort was directed at forming it by being as competitive and cutthroat as possible.

It was realpolitik woth an ideal.

Aside from capitalism can someone redpill me one exactly why idpol is bad?

What are the cons?

From my perspective it just appeals to human's natural need for validation and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that. Although I understand that it may be implemented in a less than productive fashion. But why exactly is it so fruitless?

State of modern Democratic policies/zeitgeist in USA is an argument alone this retarded smoke-screen that is referred to as "identity politics". This entire "thing" is nothing but a distraction so people won't pay att. to actual problems in politics.

It's disgusting.

>black people and trans people aren't oppressed

ok

>But why exactly is it so fruitless?

Go ahead and analyze the 2016 election in America where Democrats tried to play the identity card and it cost them the entire thing.

It's basically a massive echochamber "Loud" minority.

>He thinks the wage gap isn't an actual problem
>He thinks POC being killed by cops isn't an actual problem
>He thinks transsexuals being discriminated against isn't an actual problem
>He claims white privilege isn't an actual problem

Wow, just kys bigot.

Low trust society.
Not exactly a thing that can sustain itself that long. Sooner or later we'll end up with something more bloody than the occassional skirmish.

>wage gap

LOW QUALITY BAIT

The problem isn't the "Loud" majority.

It was the "Loud" and bigoted majority.

Hillary was right to fly the minority flag.

>Wage gap.
Is a thing. Has nothing to do with ID. Isn't even an issue in itself.

>POC killed by cop.
Black Lives Matter is a terrorist organization that is all about ignorance of cop on black violence (and even more so about BLACK on COP)

just end thyself.

>Actual sjw.
lamoafao

>Muh SJW bogeyman

Oh god, they disagree with me! What will I do?!

Unironic answer: white male truly don't get why black people, LGBTQ+ communities and women march in oublic and protest often. They don't see any sort of barrier, or any sort of institutionalized/normalized problematic behaviour in their life, so they just shrug it off.

When they see something problematic in their life they're incapable of understanding that said minorities are experiencing those problems too, added to the problems that are linked to their percieved identity.
It's easy to say that people should just see past someone's gender and colour, it is harder to admit that action has to be taken in order to fix those problems, since a neutral response can be equated to supporting the status quo.

That said, most of the examples of idpol you will see here on Veeky Forums should be ridiculed. It is easy to find a dumb feminist on tumblr or deviantart, but what you never see here is people commenting on books, lectures and serious sources in general.

You're either getting baited or this person has more estrogen than discernment -- why bother?

So you're saying idpol isn't objectively wrong just misconstrued by white men?

that's why those groups should be discarded and left in the dust

hail gnon

>*Hanged, drawn and quartered

ftfy.

>They don't see any sort of barrier, or any sort of institutionalized/normalized problematic behaviour in their life

If these barriers exist, then you can prove that they exist scientifically.

If white people don't see this, then who is perpetrating it? Minorities against minorities?

You'll see.............

Lots of people are racist and sexist. Just because you aren't doesn't mean it doesn't happen. One reason people get so mad at "white men" is because many people refuse to believe anything they don't personally experience is real.

> that face when classical Marxists are now an identity fighting the identity politicians they claim to be outside of

painful lel

let them implode, why does anything marxian always implode by the way?

>classical Marxists are now a....

It's not the 70.s anymore bruh

People from all races and sexes are racist and sexist in basically equal percentages.
There is no reason to divide people by race line in this, it is not an issue specific to white people or white males in particular.

Individual racism is the norm. What we are talking about is systemic racism, the system being set up to disadvantage minorities or women. I don't see any systematic or even systemic racism or sexism in our society and the onus is on you, and other people who think like you, to demonstrate that this is the case.

I was talking about the misconceptions about idpol made by white men, I was not putting the entire blame of all oppression on them (that would be naive). Of course I've mentioned white men because we are on Veeky Forums, had we all been Turkish I would have used other targets.

There are entire academical fields that anti-idpol people discredit regularly, without never interacting with them.
>If white people don't see this, then who is perpetrating it? Minorities against minorities?
Do you have any experience on how a ghetto works? Or what are the common barriers that trans people have to go through? The fact that you don't know the first thing about these matters does not mean that they are nin-existant, if anything it just corroborates my initial argument.

>Unironic answer: white male truly don't get why black people, LGBTQ+ communities and women march in oublic and protest often. They don't see any sort of barrier, or any sort of institutionalized/normalized problematic behaviour in their life, so they just shrug it off.

This is nonsense. What they see are these respective groups being interviewed by the assorted press mid-march and never having anything substantive to say as to why. Most couldn't for the life of them put forward any logical and rational reason why they are out there "marching". They parrot what they've heard the next say in the same old generalized and overly emotional ways. They spew MSM catchphrases and get outraged when they aren't taken seriously.

I'm not white either. Not that it should even fucking matter. Because in a legitimately progressive society (not this faux revolutionary symbol over substance identity politics trash) the strength of your argument should be the only thing worth assessing. Not all the appeals to emotion you buffer it with to make it seem passable.

>I don't see any systematic or even systemic racism or sexism in our society and the onus is on you, and other people who think like you, to demonstrate that this is the case.
watch this
youtube.com/watch?v=8r6GBo_7UNc

You're right, it's a euphemism for "racist white men."

Zizek calls his black friends "nigger" and claims that's what they want to be called.

we are all transsexuals

ITT: a bunch of americans who have a history of no class struggle whatsoever lecturing the rest of the world on the virtues of pronouns and outdated and exhausted socdem policies, shit that they claim will do the trick, which the rest of the world has done and see fail horribly

You guys are just as much a bunch of neocons as your right wing mirror image and you don't even fucking realize it.

...

Stop spewing your gross "common sense" near me you silly bigot.

>Ghettos
Ghettos are disadvantageous to poor people and fueled by Ghetto culture. Why is this a race issue? You are doing this problem a disservice by making it about race rather than about poverty, culture and crime.

>Or what are the common barriers that trans people have to go through?
Besides the fact that trans people are a minuscule minority, nobody is really arguing against helping out trans people. Just some proposed ways to help them out are unreasonable in relation to their number. Like that idea to force businesses and public venues to create a third bathroom choice. Somehow bathrooms appear to be the worst people trans people face at the moment, I would be more open to participating if there were genuine issues to be solved.

>tfw I've just realized that me bitching about BLM is the same thing as Chads saying "just be yourself and everything will be fine ;)" to people like me

>guy gets checked by police
>has a spring knife on him
>flees
>police hunt him down and injure him in the process
>he dies because the incompetent police underestimated his injuries

Okay and how is this a race problem?

watch the whole video, he literally explains it

socially and economically unadvantaged n sheet

critique is a bitchy form of engagement, the minute you indulge in it, even from a right wing perspective, you're implicitly a communist

>guy gets racial profiled by police
>has a spring knife on him (no death penalty for that)
>flees
>police hunt him down and, as usual when it comes to black people, beat the living shit out of him
>beaten to a pulp he asks for medical help, but the police ignores him
>he dies for a minor crime
>police proceed to lie about it
>people get mad
>police beat the shit out of even more black people

Black people always complain about everything, am i right?

BASED marx

Just deport all the niggers already - there will be no end to this dilemma otherwise.

wtf I love marx now

Fucking Americans.

This this this so much this i've been telling my liberal and conservative friends this all along and they're still trapped in their little world of arguing about it

plainly this

>tfw ethnonationalist supporter of the working man

>guy gets racial profiled by police
He got profiled for living in a crap neighborhood full of crime

>has a spring knife on him (no death penalty for that)
They didn't shoot him, did they? He fled and was arested under use of violence. You can't just flee from the police after they tell you to stop and comply to their standard search procedure.

>beaten to a pulp he asks for medical help, but the police ignores him
>he dies for a minor crime
>police proceed to lie about it
That demonstrates that there are problems in police procedures and training. Why is this racist against black people?

>people get mad
Yeah for the wrong reason

>police beat the shit out of even more black people
Black people are over represented in poor shitty neighborhoods, so yeah. And black people are told to see police as enemies so more black people resist arrest and get hurt in the process, so yeah. None of this is designed to be racist though, so where is your point?

>Why is this a race issue?
Check ln the history of virtually any major inner city ghetto inhabited by mostly african american people, and you will quickly discover that the social interactions that haappen in them are vicious cycles, and that those viciousncycles have been impossed by the status quo when it was still fine to force black people to live in the worst part of every big city.
Poverty is an issue in general, I'm not disputing that, but modern ghettos aare a very specific problem whose roots can be found in institutionalized racism in different times, wich never really got fixed by society at large.

>Somehow bathrooms appear to be the worst people trans people face at the moment, I would be more open to participating if there were genuine issues to be solved.
No, it's just the more advertised problem (it got relevant during this election). To say that bathrooms are litterally the only source of problems for trans people is, sorry if I may sound patronizing, ignorant. Ot just means that you're completely detatched from this group and their experience, while criticizing them harshly for identifying with their place in society.
Wich, again, corroborates my first point: white male in the. US and Europe truly don't get what these people are mad about, so they just start saying that all this complaining is nonsense.

That's naive of yours. These problems are real, and a decent society should care about it. Communism in a racist, transphobe society is synonym of failure.
That said, people often underestimate how radical some of these groups are.

>mallcore
hello, shitskin

>It is thus depressing to read some of the better-known and more avowedly “liberal” intellectuals in the contemporary USA exploiting their professional credibility to advance a partisan case. Jean Bethke Elshtain and Michael Walzer, two senior figures in the country’s philosophical establishment (she at the University of Chicago Divinity School, he at the Princeton Institute), both penned portentous essays purporting to demonstrate the justness of necessary wars—she in Just War against Terror: The Burden of American Power in a Violent World (2003) a preemptive defense of the Iraq war; he more recently in a shameless defense of Israel’s bombardments of Lebanese civilians (“War Fair,” The New Republic, July 31, 2006). In today’s America, neoconservatives generate brutish policies for which liberals provide the ethical fig leaf. There really is no other difference between them.

Tony Judt wrote that in 2006

youtube.com/watch?v=hOtWTSkGH7U&t=1s

>All identity politics are secondary to class.
>ethnonationalist
>supporter of the man
>ALL identity poltics
user...

Western societies with their laws and customs simply aren't optimized for niggers.
We're still in a transitional phase where we pretend that we're all the same, but sooner or later we'll have to admit that we're not.
There's no pretty solution to this, segregation is probably the only way out.

...

>Poverty is an issue in general, I'm not disputing that, but modern ghettos aare a very specific problem whose roots can be found in institutionalized racism in different times, wich never really got fixed by society at large.

What institutionalized racism would that be?
I stand with my statement that the problems you are talking about are poor people problems and not black people problems. Ghettos are sustained by ghetto culture, they will stay the way they are as long as the people in it keep acting a certain way. And they will stay in this vicious cycle as long as they are kept in poverty and the ghetto culture that sustains it is ignored in favor of 'race issues'.

That person stated with force that the issues trans people are overblown, and your response is to tell him he's wrong and ignorant. Further that this is because he's detached from their struggle due to his identity. Notice how you didn't just educate him with the issues trans people face and how he is wrong?.

Care to actually lay out the issues?. How can you not see the moronic, circular nature of your rhetoric?.

Nigs oppress themselves. Trannies are just mentally ill that dump a lot of money in getting mutilated and then eventually kill themselves because, as if it wasn't obvious, cutting your dick off or building a "penis" does not make you the opposite sex.

>I'm a mentally ill people why you all look at me like that!010!?!+!+1+!

Goddamn you fucking trannies are so goddamn oblivious, and there's not one thing wrong with discriminating against mentally ill people if you want to. I am not gonna hire some man who thinks he is a woman, and I will make damn sure that nobody else does in my circles.

>I am not gonna hire some man who thinks he is a woman, and I will make damn sure that nobody else does in my circles.
if they are good workers, you really shouldn't care
now if they use their mental illness as an excuse for being shit at their job then i'd agree with you.

puhlease, we've fought protracted battles over unionization, worker's rights, minimum wage, etc. Blood has been spllied.

>trannies that are good workers
ah ha ha ha

Nice ideology