Is it society's fault? Or is it more likely that they are defective from the get go?

The whole culture of victimhood is doing them absolutely no favors. 90% of them see the tiniest slight against one as a direct, purposeful assault on all of them.

I know this is an anecdote, but I'm sure I'm not the only one to experience this:
>Be on Kerbal Space Program forums
>reply to someone's post
>say "he" somewhere in the post
>sign out and go do other stuff
>~6 hours later check email
>have a giant PM about how I'm a horrible bigot for using the wrong pronoun and that they prefer "she".
>had no way of knowing the poster in question preferred "she"
They've all built their entire identities around their gender, so when anything even remotely questions it, they go berzerk. It's no wonder so many kill themselves.

I think he/she/it was just memeing.
But anyways, I'm just third worlder, these kind of things just seem too impossible to believe for me.

I can't prove it, but I want to believe that it was always like this, and that the ratio of maladjusted people to the total population was always what it was. The key difference between then and now is the internet. There aren't more abberants, they're just networked better. 300 years ago if you were a crossdresser, you were the only crossdresser for miles. You didn't have access to a support group of fellow crossdressers. And you certainly didn't have a community outreach program because of the prohibitive costs of such an endeavor. Today you can post pictures of your balls in women's underwear on Instagram for no more than the cost of a cheap cell phone and thousands of people will see it. And due to the ever-increasing population density in urban areas, you're probably not the only crossdresser in your town, even if the rate is something like one in ten thousand.

idek why they automatically go into "i have the wrong genitalia" territory either but I feel it should't matter if you aren't personally affected. Can you clarify what "why a female tranny would go all in and become a stereotypical man" means. Gender really makes no sense at the moment, some people feel it's your level of masculine or femininity and others feel it's purely a genital thing. I also think no kid not exposed to stereotypes would do that and i say that because nothing is expected from the different genders in that circumstance. Shit is just confusing.

If nothing else, we're machines to make more of ourselves. If one doesn't procreate, as with gays or whatever, then you have a problem, same as if you're straight and had your dick chopped off. We ought to offer help and therapy to people who find themselves being gay, but its not fashionable in current society to see it that way. Not that it should be shoved down their throats, if they don't want it, thats fine too.
That being said, childless people lack the strongest ties to preserve the world and make it a better place. They don't have little copies of themselves that are about to inhabit the future they leave behind.

As for trans people... just why? Just seems like an exercise in Nihilism to me. They reject gender roles for the sake of itself. Whatever, but those that don't claim they were "born with it," that's fine too, But how can they simultaneously believe that they were born with this condition, and also believe that nothing is wrong with them? Can they have it both ways?

>be crazy as fuck
>so fucking crazy that you think it is a good idea to be transgender
>there's people in society pushing people to become transgender
>there's doctors who will gladly mutilate your body for you so you can pretend to be another gender
>you still smell the same, sound the same despite trying to change your voice, you even look much the same despite changing clothing and using a shovel load of makeup
>realize you totally fucked up any and all potential you had for reproducing, literally only reason you even exist
>life only gets worse as a result, exponentially so
>kys as a result

Seems like there's a lot of fault to spread around, but the main person to blame is the person who becomes a transgender. Enablers are just as bad. Either they are fucked up because they believe it is a good thing, they are fucked up because they merely want to take money for helping you out and fulfill your fantasy without properly empathizing and helping you seek real help, or they are fucked up because they use this as a way to destroy your original demographic.

In a sane society, people who injure themselves are usually hospitalized in a mental institution so they may get counseling at the very least. Mutilating your genitals should more than meet this prerequisite, even if you sought out a 3rd party to do it for you. The same goes for the person who does the operation on you. Yes, this logic also includes circumcision, S&M, and body modding.

There have been transgender and crossdressing individuals since the ancient Egyptian and Roman eras, centuries later. Now the commonality is high because there is a higher population, higher population density, and a global network letting people know that there are others like them. This mixed with the, usually, traumatic childhood manifests itself in the form of an identity crisis. The phenomenon is well documented in correlational observations and usually results in either a solution (an outcome of typical normality) or the individual selecting a persona to satisfy the crisis appropriately.

I notice that you are really only talking about the toxic weirdos who indeed only 'become' trans because they have other illnesses and I know people like that, but remember that is not everyone. Right now a lot of people are fed up with those kinds of transgenders but people are too nice and cowardly to call it out. The whole transgender thing is not solid in theory, I do believe there are a higher amount of people like this, but only so they can troll, like that person in the forum.

I don't even know why I respond to Project NORMALISE threads.

What conclusion do you want to draw from this conversation so we can meet at a common grounds?

well they're certainly a vocal minority. but who am i to question the media's networked aberrant du jour?

>Applies to circumcision, S&M, and body modding.

Alright Mr.Authoritarian, let's just knock off football too because it involves repeated concussions that make you stupider and only a mentally ill person would want to play football.

I don't agree with that guy trying to make every aesthetic surgery illegal, but I certainly do think that any sport that is proven to cause brain damage should be illegal to subject children to. An adult can fuck themselves up as much as they want but having 16 year olds destroy their brain so their parents can enjoy the show is fucked up

I unironically think this about football

Yes they are 'born' that way. In a nutshell it is something going wrong, but people say that nothing is wrong with them because it is something that can not be fixed. Although a life forms purpose is to make more of them selves we as humans have evolved much farther than that. Most at some point will realize there is more to living than procreation. Plus with the whole over population problem small percentages of the human race refraining from having kids is the least of our problems. Identities and sexuality's (the legit ones) are as much of a defect as birthmark is in the long run. (at least in the western world) Even if procreation was a musk you know there are a million ways we could get that going without people needing to be straight or cisgendered.

Yeah that's my stance too and why I think piercings and the like should be restricted to post 18 year olds. We are getting to the age of genetic engineering though and a guy already went in front of a conference and supposedly altered his genome on camera.
Yeah but people should have the choice to play football post 18 years old. Or younger if they do it on their own, it should not be condoned by schools though.

I definitely blame all the people enabling them and telling them it's their identity. Honestly I think the huge increase we've seen in their presence lately is because of society and the media praising them for it. Kids growing up today see it as something that can give them some kind of identity and community to belong to, and then after they've rebuilt their lives around this identity and (often) changed their body irreversibly and find that they still have to face the world alone without a crowd of supporters cheering for them just like everyone else, it's understandable that a significant number of them start to see no way out.

there's no way, if it was a troll they'd do it somewhere with spectators, not in a private message
if you don't believe it just watch how mainstream news outlets in the US and western Europe talk about this subject

Also, I agree with the football argument going on.

>only a mentally ill person would want to play football.

That is correct.

oh come on, we're all nerds here so of course we don't care about football, but let's try to be able to see from other peoples' perspective

not science

At the end of the day I think that they should be allowed what they want to too their body. They should not be praised for it nor should they be shamed because of it either though. Unfortunately they are stuck with a terrible mental condition known as dysphoria and finding the best way to deal for each individual is important. For some transitioning is the best choice as they will end up looking indistinguishable from any other woman or man without extensive naked examination. For others intense therapy is needed because they got genetically screwed and have the frame of a 6'7 line backer so transitioning will just make it worse in the long run as they will never approach their internalized image.

I think along the same vein as pedophiles, as long as they don't hurt someone they shouldn't be looked down on. They got saddled with something shitty and making them feel worse is just going to prevent them from seeking some form of treatment.

>Is it possible to have a discussion on out of the ordinary sexual identity/preference basing it in actual science?

>be Opie
>start /pol/ containment thread on Veeky Forums
>ask for "Actual Science™"
>all muh lulz

Nowadays before any kind of hormone or surgery takes place in the US and Canada they have to be diagnosed with dysphoria so that acts as a buffer for irrational action. There are obviously a lot of problems in the transgender community so please take my word for it, not all transgender people are nut jobs looking for attention and community bullshit. A lot of people who claim to be trans really don't belong there and make everyone else look bad.

There is no actual science at the moment all this shit is being actively studied and no solid conclusion has been made yet about transgender people. You're guesses on how they came to be are as good as mine.

I mean it occurs in a lot of different animals, some life cycles even require it. I don't think it is that much of a stretch to think that some rearrangement or mutation of a common genotype triggers a desire to change gender. We just lack the in born capability to do so.

>Are there any secular opponents to any crazy political agenda?
What is this I don't even

>we share most of our dna with bananas

where are all the people who think they are Chiquitas?

Whose perspective? The players with brain damage or who have died?

si.com/nfl/2017/07/25/boston-university-study-cte-nfl-player-brains
time.com/4871597/degenerative-brain-disease-cte-football/
today.com/video/43-percent-of-retired-pro-football-players-show-signs-of-brain-injury-in-study-664204867707
motherjones.com/media/2015/10/high-school-football-death-camron-matthews/

I believe part of it is real, i.e. there are some people that actually feel trapped inside the wrong sex body.
The "cult" (for lack of a better word) surrounding the issue seems highly ideological to me though and seem to be centered around PC culture and trying to victimize trans people while trying to muddle this issue in with things like the "patriarchy" and "white supremacy".
The way they debate is highly politicized and removed from the issue itself, which is a Damon shame, because I think there actually is some as yet unknown knowledge about the human condition in there.

This. Certain legislations already require you to fill out forms detailing what group you identify with when applying for certain positions. This is fundamentally authoritarian in my opinion and is diametrically opposed to what I perceive a free society to be like.

That is something I always wonder. Vegans build their identity around what they eat (or not eat). 'Genderfluid' people build theirs around gender, etc.

I identify mostly with what I do and even that is not all. My identity could never hinge on one thing and one thing alone. Why do they do this to themselves? Is it to escape responsibility for their wrongdoing so they don't feel at fault when they fail at something?

>If nothing else, we're machines to make more of ourselves. If one doesn't procreate, as with gays or whatever, then you have a problem, same as if you're straight and had your dick chopped off. We ought to offer help and therapy to people who find themselves being gay, but its not fashionable in current society to see it that way. Not that it should be shoved down their throats, if they don't want it, thats fine too.
>That being said, childless people lack the strongest ties to preserve the world and make it a better place. They don't have little copies of themselves that are about to inhabit the future they leave behind.
>As for trans people... just why? Just seems like an exercise in Nihilism to me. They reject gender roles for the sake of itself. Whatever, but those that don't claim they were "born with it," that's fine too, But how can they simultaneously believe that they were born with this condition, and also believe that nothing is wrong with them? Can they have it both ways?

The interesting thing about your post is that if you think about it, gender advocates' arguments logically entail that they believe that homosexuality could be therapeutically changed. They fervently believe that you can choose your gender and with it your sexual orientation and simultaneously argue that biological sex does not exist. But gays are born this way and cannot change it (so it IS biological?), but trans people can? It simply makes no sense to me.

Here in Germany, for piercing and tattoos, you need your parent(s)/legal guardians to sign a permission form if you're underage.
I think you can only join a football club at 16 without a parent's permission, but in not sure in that.

I think the biggest problem is that most of them aren't passable. If every tranny looked like Bailey Jay they'd have a lot less problems but most of them look like dudes wearing wigs. That obviously causes a lot of friction for transsexuals trying to operate in society.
If you're a guy with fuccboi genetics e.g. narrow shoulders, relatively wide hips, feminine facial features you'll have an easier time being a tranny than somebody like Bruce Jenner.
The majority of transsexuals are just shit out of luck until we get technology that can drastically alter our bodies.

>Is it society's fault? Or is it more likely that they are defective from the get go?
Definitely this.

It's societies fault that objective research on it is effectively embargoed.

lol try sitting on hormone cocktail and see how your brain likes it. NEWSFLASH it fucking doesn't so males are not supposed to be female and vice versa. we are not built that way so you kill yourself when you fucking try.

itsa called nature motherfucker

its called gender dysphoria. and it should not be treated with hormone therapy of the sex that you are delusional to identify with

>Posting on ksp forums
What did you expect?

Kek

I agree. I'm convinced that the entirety of what we call "identity" is based on artificial categories we impose on the structure of reality.
E.g., the notion of a "man" and "woman" has some basis in reality in terms of two complementary biological organisms that must interact in a certain way in order to give birth to another. However, all the added features of what it means to be a man or a woman, i.e., the abstract notions we carry in our heads of "man" and "woman", are illusions, a product of our collective imagination.
And yet there seems to be a persistent need in most of us to identify with such illusory concepts. - people getting in fights because one's "a conservative" and the other's "a liberal"
- people believing in absurd identity-based "clash of civilizations" rather than simple economically motivated geopolitcs (it's easier to get people to fight a war if you provide them with some lofty ideal ['murica, western civ] to identify with and fight for rather than something petty like natural resources)
- people dressing in clothing and wearing makeup associated with the opposite gender, even willing to endure violent reprisal, for the sake of feeling comfortable with their identity -> it's not enough to just tell oneself that one is trans, one must be seen as being so

man. fuck identity. pic related

isn't all identity delusional in a sense?

No

Then their high incidence of Hara-kiri could be related to either the hormonal and surgical interventions they go trough, modern Western society's encouragement of their unhealthy state of mind which only worsens it (and it would not be difficult to think that their confusion and self-hatred would only go up while they fail to understand why), it could be that they fail to feel accepted by society and that that are in a weak enough mental state that the discrimination you get when visiting Veeky Forums is enough for them to want to kill themselves, there could be a correlation between trauma, abuse or abandonment and transsexualism or maybe it is all a conspiracy to keep the price of boipussy high
If people are "Born that way" then they are defective from birth

But with manny things, it is most probably a combination of various factors:
>Little Jimmy is a bit more sensitive than the others, he is confused and fails to understand why we is not like the others. He grew up in an abusive home and his first boyfriend said that he loved him but constantly abused him. He went to the internet and found out about people like him, he later found out an explanation to his feelings. He stared crossdressing, then he took hormones in an attempt to arase his masculine features and then he had his genitals removed. Jemma had support from friends all the way trough, which gave her the courage to transition
>Now Jemma has an open wound between her legs that demands antibiotics, scars all over her body from plastic surgery, her face is still square and her voice is face and forced. Still has to shave and walks like a cartoon of what the media says a woman is
>But yet, he still feels depressed... Jimmy still has a huge void and does not know how to fill it
>So he swallowed a bunch of funny pills, The End

>Is it society's fault?
>Or is it more likely
>Is it possible
>basing it
>it's wrong
>consider it
What do you mean by "it", Peasant?

^ living with a borderline can turn your life into a nightmare you cannot escape.

Whoa...

>gender dysphoria occurs in animals
I'd bet you have a great source for that

haha, I've been thinking about that a lot lately myself. The thing that's actually subject to change is biologically predetermined, and vice versa. Moreover it's ignorant and offensive to ever say otherwise.

I agree that we impose extra artificial concepts on our identities, but there are real natural differences in the minds of men and women - as a general rule of course, there are many exceptions, although a good portion of them may be correlated to hormonal anomalies.

damn, this picture needs to be spammed all over the internet, especially here

Anyone have a source on this?

I remember it happening, and a similar thing happened with bisexuality, but I can't find any good stats on it.

Are they really that bad? I posted there back 2012-1013 or so and I don't recall them being that bad.

it's the watered-down version of a better pic from 8ch

The funniest thing is that trannies don't want to associate with autogynephilics, so they believe they have to pretend to be asexuals

hi /pol/
if you weren't new here you would know that everyone here knows of that or other very similar images already

This is the conclusion that i reached as well. The question now becomes, why do some people have an extremely intense desire to identify as the 'opposite' gender? I cannot think of any other possible explanation than mental illness.

Hormonal imbalances in the womb (due to toxic pollutants from industrial plastics, for example) can effectively cause the latent "make this one have a brain refined for use with estrogen cycles" gene activate during that phase of development. In this case they physically feel something is wrong with them long before puberty.

In the case of anyone with a Tumblr account, though, it's just beta males fantasizing about what it's like to be a women because,
1) There's a mass meme about men and women being so different they can never understand each other. (Basis unknown.) As seen on 2) If you never look at porn, or contextualize the way you look at porn such that you dissociate from your natural impulses (as Christian neo-50's anti-masturbationism dictates) then your only remaining tool is immersive visualization. As seen on 3) Medical science has advanced to the degree of offering "believable" plastic surgery options for any weirdo that wants to place aesthetic form over function. As seen on or or or just on Veeky Forums and the manga aesthetic in general.

In other words, transitioning is a fetish. But the developmental hormone problems are real. In this case, the cultural reaction utterly dwarfs the pollutant-based version. One needs one type of help and the other needs society to not be a fuck.

Basically if you became trans after puberty, you're just obsessed with science and what medicine can do to fake post-singularity culture.

Consider: Someone in the wrong body for their gender has either a physical or mental disease. Either the individual's body or mind is diseased. There is no scenario in which they are completely healthy.

A libertarian approach demands we treat the individual as inviolate. If they wish to form their identity around being the gender opposite to their physical reality, an argument from freedom demands we accept this choice unless it infringes on our own freedom.

But consider: Being the wrong gender mentally is much easier to cure than being the wrong gender physically. It requires a deeper personal change that is in significant ways much more painful, but counselling for gender dysphoria has a much higher chance of success without complications than gender reassignment surgery. Any rational and well - intentioned person would counsel treating gender dysphoria as a mental rather than a physical illness, not because it is objectively one or the other but because a mental illness is in this case easier to treat.

And therein lies the fundamental hypocrisy of the progressive gender activists - their insistence that gender dysphoria requires physical rather than mental intervention is based in a deep and abiding discomfort with acknowledging mental illness. Given some of the other rhetoric this group has put out, it is hypocrisy of the first order.

I don't think you can feminize a brain without feminizing a body, or at least not in whole. Maybe you can neuroplasticity your way into transgenderism maybe men and women have some kind of period where they have a much easier time learning their gender like kids have an easy time reading.

its the politics of low self esteem its like when leftist tell female to consider men spreading their legs on a bus as an attempt at patriarchal domination. The point it to infest their minds with paranoia by contextualizing any behavior into one that is antagonistic against them they do this by using a lens.

As a tranny that will be committing soon I want to say that it is not society's fault. Even if transgendered people are more accepted or encourage it doesn't prevent the mental illness from existing. It could be said to exasperate the issue, but it is not the sole cause.

>still smell the same
Citation needed. Pretty sure HRT fixes that.

Treat life like a joke.
Soon your ass will croak.

Funny Pills.
Not Even Once.

Don't commit unless you've already cut off your dick.

to theorize that faggots are more likely to kill themselves because deep down they know they are biological failures, you'd have to design a study to show that faggot suicide rates are constant regardless of the tolerance to faggotry. you'd also have to account for the suicide rate among the GP. has such a study been conducted? i don't know.