Transgender

because dysphoria. also I guess because they have a chance of looking like freaks and societal pressure. but mostly dysphoria.

By the time we'd be able to properly diagnose and cure it, we'd also be able to just make them, genetically, into what they want to be. So it doesn't really matter.

Yeah, okey. I personally don't care what people do or identify as, as long as they don't hurt other people (pedophilia, rape, what have you). But when the question pops up about electing a trans or letting transmen use the public female restroom, etc, it raises some questions.

Thanks for the replies eveyone.

because, surprise surprise, even if you identify as the opposite sex (gender is a bullshit, nonscientific concept. see: john money), it doesn't mean people of the sex you're attracted to will want you as a partner. they'll never be the real thing and something like that eats a person up inside. additionally there are plenty of trans people who go through with surgery and immediately regret it, which makes sense, because if i wasn't in the right mind and got a surgery to remove my penis, i'd probably regret it too.

that being said, trans people are still human and hating them isn't doing any good. but the way that "gender dysphoria" is treated is generally iatrogenic to the individual. for any other disorder, mental health care isn't concerned with re-affirming a patients' delusions, but in the case of someone who is dysphoric, this is a main treatment option, i.e. hormone therapy. but do we tell a person with an eating disorder to eat/starve themselves because they feel better doing it? do we tell a depressed person who cuts themselves during an episode to keep doing it if it makes the problem go away?

on that note, yes, there are people who go through with surgery and/or hormone therapy who end up being better off than they were before. but if you look at the nature of long term mental health support for these individuals, you'll see it's often based around handling days where one "feels especially dysphoric". why is this necessary if a post operative trans individual is supposedly happy with their decision?

I agree that trans men should probably not be in women's bathrooms

>but do we tell a person with an eating disorder to eat/starve themselves because they feel better doing it? do we tell a depressed person who cuts themselves during an episode to keep doing it if it makes the problem go away?
we would if it solved the problem. the delusion is the problem with an anorexic, the "delusion"(which it isn't, from what we know) is not the problem with a transperson, the dysphoria is, which is shown to be alleviated from transition.

Thoughts on the argument ''just accept the card you were dealt''? Like manlets and ugly people. Can't do shit about it in reality.

my point is because many trans individuals still have numerous mental health issues post transition, including susceptibility to suicide, that psychiatry needs to re-evaluate how the disorder is treated. based on what you said, it seems like you ignored the last part of my post.

We don't just stop treating cancer because the results aren't perfect.

Cancer is a life threatening disease.

So is dysphoria

that has no bearing on the analogy. You don't just stop bothering to use treatments because they aren't perfect. You have to prove they are actually harmful.

this is me, i bang my gf, then go home and secretly jerk it to TG porn.

>. why is this necessary if a post operative trans individual is supposedly happy with their decision?
because dysphoria isn't something that is only located in the penis and it won't magically make all gender related issues disappear

this is the logic that makes transgender people come out in their 50s and look like horrific freaks. "just hold it in" isn't always sound advice

''deal with it''

?

Tranny suicide rates do not drop significantly after op. Don't believe me, it only takes a couple minutes to fact check on a google search

the transition is dealing with it.

did pic related come out as a tranny or something? are you just in love with him? what's the story op?

No one knows but from what I have read and the classes I've taken on neuro development, it seems to be a legitimate biological disease with some potentional neuro markers however, I the think the recent overflowing of it in the media is causing massive amounts of over diagnoses and making people to believe they have it just like what happened when multiple personality disorder diagnoses jumped many times over when the media was obsessed about Shirley Mason.

I mostly like this theory because it explains why there is still such a high regret and suicide rate for those who are transgender and undergo a sex change. Some cases are real and benefit from the sex change long term while others are just this generation's mps and they regret it later on when they grow out of it.

Is it though? I don't think that they'll be happier tbqh.

What I don't understand is why the fuck do any of you give a shit? You go through every form of mental gymnastics possible to lump it in with every other form of mental illness all while giving it a disproportionate amount of attention, something that traditional mental illness does not get. No one gives a shit about the drug addict in the street that is too fucked up to seek free healthcare services. No one gives a shit whether or not a schizophrenic opts for antipsychotics or electroconvulsive therapy and its long term implications. Just admit it. Traps make you hard as a fucking diamond and that is why you care.

Please project your castration anxiety somewhere else. All you people think about is the operation, which usually comes long after hormones and transitioning.
Further, you can't accurately measure the suicide rate of untransitioned trans people, since if they kill themselves without transitioning, they probably never told anybody they wanted to.
And further, unless it actually raised the suicide rate, that still wouldn't be a good reason to stop doing it.

...

If the "treatment" requires concincing the rest of society to lie, and pretend you are a different gender, well that's not really okay with me. It is a delusion, because they believe they are a gender that they weren't born as. Either you can help them cope with their delusion, or you can try to alleviate their delusion

>because they believe they are a gender that they weren't born as.
you could argue it's a form of intersex, being physiological

it's a combination of sexual confusion and the fact that the idea of someone having their dick chopped off viscerally unnerves them because they are fucking autists and can't separate other people from themselves as different beings with entirely different life experiences and minds. Note how none of them ever pay a millisecond of attention to female to male transsexuals. See also the "why dont u just deal with it lol" reasoning of these people, who seem to think that because they don't mind not being a girl, everyone should.

Ohh that is JJ Watt. He is a defensive for the Houston Texans in the NFL (American football). Very good player.

>Tricking mentally ill people into going through with iireversible bodily changes that will lower their quality of life
What kind of sadist made that chart?

You don't even know what a delusion is. A delusion is like the classic mental case who thinks they're napoleon. If trannies were delusional, they wouldn't be upset about their bodies, they wouldn't hate looking in mirrors and they wouldn't seek to change their bodies or their voices or their mannerisms.

I think that this is not enough data to be fully conclusive. There needs to be a long term study done, i.e. following patients who went through with surgery say, 10 years prior.
Do you really think people don't care about those other mental health issues? The reason the transgender issue is significant is because it could impact the treatment of mental disorders as a whole.
>Traps make you hard as a fucking diamond and that is why you care.
Speak for yourself. You clearly take personal offense and have nothing to offer but a half-baked ad-hominem attack, and some other holier-than-thou nonsense. As someone who has been institutionalized multiple times and spent years in mental health care, I want to spit in your face.

Yeah, your comment about FTMs is actually quite an interesting observation. I have noticed it myself. For whatever reasons, FTMs just simply do not pique this weird primal reaction that MTFs do. There is some kind of deeper psychological effect going on and that is why people care, be it disgust or sexual interest.

the delusion is the very thing that causes them to be upset with their reality, though.

Because I want to educate myself on the matter? Why is that bad? They teached us a lot about drugs in school but barely even mentioned transsexuals. Now I see it everywhere in the media. Why am I not allowed to ask questions.

lmao. keep telling yourself that. look at you man, you're a mess. you've never put this much effort into anything in life. all of a sudden a discussion on trannies comes along and you're turned up to a 10

That's not what a delusion is or how it works. Being deluded that you are female does not result in you wanting to change your body to look more female and being upset that it looks male, it results in you looking in the mirror and seeing a female human being and then being confused and frustrated that you aren't treated as such by others.

??

Hormones in Water Supply are turning Pepe Frogs GAY
Source: Infowars.cum

i think its definetly a red flag that more and more people are coming out as trans especially mtfs.
now you could say that this is because they feel "less opressed" now but i just think many of them just see this as a new trend and go with it like emos in the early 2000s or punks in the 90s.

>buys water filter for all those tap water hormones
>buys american beef and reheats food in plastic containers

Just admit it man.

Admit what?

>it results in you looking in the mirror and seeing a female human being and then being confused and frustrated that you aren't treated as such by others
isn't that basically it though? don't they say they're a woman trapped in a mans body? 'seeing' is used very liberally in your post. not the guy you're replying to btw

Tbh I don't see why we don't just have urinals and cubicles, it's not lime pedos who go into the girls restroom is any better than lesbian pedos allowed in by default

see

No, I used the word seeing very, very literally in that post, jackass.

Dude, holy shit. How does it fucking matter if it's a mental illness. How does it matter if it's a condition. That's just fucking semantics.
Here's the facts: Some people feel like they identify themselves with the other gender and not their own. Identify here can be left ill defined, because it's just how people feel.
It's that simple. That's it. Are some people weird? Yes. So some people are probably trans. The rest is semantics bullshit. All this fake scentification of analyzing transexuality fucking triggers me.

That's why I'm saying you used it in a wrong way, dumbass.

>Traps make you hard as a fucking diamond
Hey Vsauce, Michael here
Are traps gay?

youtu.be/AV_d2gllrGM

How did I use it in a wrong way? That's what a delusion is. Seeing yourself as napoleon.
Under your logic the deluded hobos would be seeking surgery to make themselves shorter.

You realize that you don't have to literally see Napoleon in the mirror to be delusional, right?

left is a neurological condition that needs treatment or it will guaranteed make you kill yourself if you don't transition
right is a mental illness/fashion statement

Mental ilness/social construct. One of those. Some are just sick, others are made trans by their parents or social structure

Nice cherrypicking
Fails to mention that the supposedly gender dysphoric person being treated with an anti-psychotic was also, you know, psychotic, which might skew the results a bit.

transgenders are fags

pimozide is a really strong psychotic, it'll have an excellent response to anything because it'll make you a zombie

You're the one who doesn't know what delusion is you fucking retard. You're mixing up narcissism with delusion and I don't know how anybody could be that stupid yet here you are

and here I thought narcissism was a massive amount of self-obsession, but it was actually holding completely provably untrue lines of thought despite all evidence to the contrary all along
tell me more, magical man

>what is body dysphoria
>what is any eating disorder ever

>unless it actually raised the suicide rate, that still wouldn't be a good reason to stop doing it.

Not if the surgery/treatment is harmful, causes sterility, increased risk of cancer etc.

not just that, the "National Transgender Discrimination Survey" finds a suicide attempt rate of 41% among surveyed "transgender and gender non-conforming adults"
williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/AFSP-Williams-Suicide-Report-Final.pdf
don't know about the soundness of the methodology, but it is frequently cited

Those are delusions. Ones based on observing their bodies and drawing conclusions that are completely at odds with reality - ie, spooky scary skeleton looks at herself and thinks she is fat, and thus must eat less.

I.e boy looks in the mirror, thinks he is a girl and wonders why he doesn't look like one. Now he takes estrogen and gets his dick cut off in a few years

If you can't see how those two concepts are literally exact opposites, you are too stupid to argue with.

A delusion is an irrational ideation that does not exist in reality. An example of an irrational ideation that does not exist in reality is a boy who thinks he is a girl and was born in the wrong body

>delusion
One sees their reality as it is not and can not be convinced that the way they see it is wrong even when presented with conclusive evidence
>gender dysphoria
One is displeased with and made uncomfortable by the reality of their body and seeks to change it

They have nothing to do with each other.

Delusion = I was born a woman
Reality = You are a man

If they believed they were born women, they wouldn't be TRYING TO FUCKING BECOME WOMEN
I'm done with you now

thenewatlantis.com/docLib/20160819_TNA50SexualityandGender.pdf

lol, isn't this the "journal" that publishes musclebound IQ man?

because politicians like to milk it a lot nowadays

Some people are born physiologically transgender. Everyone else is just an image conscious child trying hard to be special for not doing anything. Everyone loves to be the victim because it means they can do no wrong. Gender is synonymous with biological sex and doesn't change just because one day you choose to start calling yourself something different. However, your biological sex is sometimes somewhere in between the generally accepted labels.
/thread.

>science
>Why does something you don't understand warrant attention?
What are you doing here?

>Some people are born physiologically transgender.
>Gender is synonymous with biological sex and doesn't change
???

It matters because a physical issue is treated way differently than a mental one.

>Can't quote like a newfag
Fuck me

Delusion: I can become a woman
Reality: no, you can't chane your gender

>The entire line of thought for these people is that gender is somehow different from sex and depends on what you feel like. That is incorrect. Your gender happens to you and you do not choose it. It IS synonymous with biological sex and does NOT change.
However, some people were born with two sets of genitalia, or mammaries and testies but no ovaries, and weird shit like that. So what do we call them if not transgender? I don't see what part of this you have a problem with.

The difference between the two is entirely a social construct
Whether a brain issue is ""physical"" or ""mental"" is a nonsense classification, it still has to do with the physical arrangement of the neurons and how they are communicating with each other

So what you're saying is, every sexually dimorphic part of the human body can be intersex except the brain?

Oh okay you're cluelessly confounding intersex and transgender. Nevermind then.

Delusion: i am a woman and i need female hormones and gential removal surgery
Reality: you are not a woman

That's not a delusion. You guys are really stunning me with your level of intelligence.

Caitlyn jenner believes he was born a woman

>I'm sooooo literally done with u xD

Are you dumb? Are you arguing a line of thought that implies that therapy does not work?

No. I'm sure there are also brains that found some middle ground between whatever generally is "male" and "female" but whatever it is, it is. And doesn't change just because some image-conscious child decides to call themselves something different.

I am not. Just emphasizing that one who is born in some sexual middle-ground isn't "wrong", they are somply what they are. People who go around saying they are the "wrong" gender have just made the conscious decision that they didn't like whatever they were and it needed to be called something different. OP failed to make that distinction. As far as mental illnesses that come from these neurological middle-states, there are so many variables to take into account that it would be stupid to try to lump in the entirety of people who are or claim to be whatever gender situation.

>45%

Here ya go, Caitlyn Jenner, the transgender spokesperson

We don't know but it looks to be determined at birth.
However, It legitimately does not matter. Here's what really matters:

-There is no know cure

-The only treatment shown to be any kind of helpful is transition (transition has been shown to lower suicide rates).

So when you see a tranny, there's two possible truths:
They're trying to cope with a pre-existing condition
OR
They're receiving treatment for their mental illness.

I always get pissed off when people shout "It's a mental illness" like that suddenly means there MUST be a cure. Any real trans person fucking hates being trans and wishes it would go away. If therapy or prayer could really cure me, I'd do it in a fucking heartbeat.

Oh and telling trannies to 'just accept who they are' does literally nothing. Even if it's was curable, that's like saying 'hey, stop being schizophrenic'. Mental illnesses don't work like that.

according to no transperson ever