Why is Veeky Forums so intellectually rigorous and clinical, yet flames anyone who criticizes faith and the existence of God? Am i missing something? Are the same people who make posts about the illusion of consciousness and free will the same people who call anyone who shits on religion a fedora tipper?
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It's because basic atheism became a normie thing for a bit, so it had to be criticised as a hegemonic position. Maybe if there's a religious revival, a more militant atheism will emerge. Leftypol, for example, has been emerging in response to the right coming to power on the back of left-wing inanity.
I think we just tend to shit on the obnoxious hitchens/dawkins form of atheism, mostly because of the way those "science writers" shit on the humanities. There is a growing trend in Positivism/Scientific Materialism to dismiss the necessity of philosophy, art, sociology, psychology. A pretension that the physical science of neuroscience will make these fields irrelevant.
The most aggravating part of these arguments against philosophy, is that they are all essentially epistomological arguments about the nature of knowledge. That is, they are philosophical statements made against philosophy.
I think for a lot of us here, the whole "Is God real" and what not is also just really fucking boring. I don't believe in God, but I understand that other people do. And I really don't care that much about it, since the dominant ideology in the west is essentially secular, consumerist.
most users have problems with women, religion is the perfect haven for a bitter hatred of women.
it's a meme you dip
You can make a solid case against the Abrahamic god, but not the idea of a creator itself. People like Hitchens and Dawkins arrogantly assume that they can know everything about the nature of the universe.
Although there comes a traditional Veeky Forums "shitting on anything that's popular" action as well.
As long as you put agnostic before atheist and explain to someone that you hate arguing with theists so you put agnostic before atheist so they will leave you alone people will leave you alone.
>There is a growing trend in Positivism/Scientific Materialism to dismiss the necessity of philosophy, art, sociology, psychology. A pretension that the physical science of neuroscience will make these fields irrelevant.
>implying this isn't 100% true
1. Because smug internet atheists are genuinely insufferable (not to imply that theists can be any less arrogant)
and 2. Because for many, if not most theists/agnostics, atheism was a stepping stone towards their current beliefs or ideals and they resent looking back on a reflection of themselves over-correcting and going full-blown hat-tipper for a phase.
how about we say fuck off to neuroscience because knowledge is unattainable and dedicating your life to finding it is unrewarding and unfulfilling as opposed to art and the humanities which is endlessly enriching to the mind (which is not the brain nigga) because we only got a few decades here n then we dead af so like, read books instead of doing science, dude
>You can make a solid case against the Abrahamic god, but not the idea of a creator itself.
I don't have to make a case against "the creator," you have to make a case for it. I derive no benefit from believing in such a concept
Atheism is increasing, so as a good contrarian I had to become a Christian. Nothing personal.
>humans are atheist by default
your logic is bad and you should feel bad
Even if it is "100% true", good luck proving that within the boundaries of scientific discourse and not resorting to historical, philosophical or metaphysical arguments.
Any discussion of the nature of knowledge, what kind of knowledge is best, the methods used to create knowledge, etc, falls firmly within the realm of Epistemological discourse.
Neuroscience has/can/will discover wonderful things about human nature. But it won't ever provide a discourse on history, ideology, or society.
Positivism is a philosophical school of thought. If a positivist wants to engage in philosophical debate, thats great! It's a point of view with merits!
A good contrarian would become a Buddhist or some south american tree worshiper
No, I need to bother the dominant ideology. They don't care about any of those things or Islam, they just hate Christianity.
I was actually considering what it would mean to revive the Mexica religions, you know, the Aztec Blood Cults and all that. Not sure I could really believe in the practice unless I went for full on human sacrifice and this seems like a short path to jail.
Also, I'd need to build a pyramid and I can barely afford rent as it is.
Because Christfags are annoying as fuck, even worse than Marxists, despite not apparently having a clue as to how to make a convincing argument.
i'm not even an atheist, but I haven't had a single interaction with an announced christian on Veeky Forums that didn't leave me despising him
>You can make a solid case against the Abrahamic god
No you can't, just meme arguments that were largely answered before they were even fucking made.
Agnosticism is worse than atheism.
>I derive no benefit from believing in such a concept
It will be hard to compete with the euphoria you are feeling at this moment.
>convincing
abloobloo truth is socially determined
i desire easily-digestible and dick-stroking rhetoric!
>i'm not even an atheist, but I haven't had a single interaction with an announced christian on Veeky Forums that didn't leave me despising him
I forgive you. May God have mercy on your soul.
it's incredible how you managed to get so very mad over an inoffensive word like "convincing"
christfags really are just insufferable
Basically, any knowledge gained from science is up for debate. Philosophy brings truths that are indoubitable. If you talk to any real science major they'll tell you the same thing, that science doesn't have all the answers; thats its practical but shouldn't be considered beyond its practicality. People who use science to argue against philosophy probably aren't scientists themselves, but mindless followers of whatever this age's "truth" is. It was god, now its science. But we, the shitposters of Veeky Forums understand that this trend, even if it takes a millenia, will pass. But literature, philosophy, art, they are here to stay for posterity. We know that these science prophets are just as silly now as the philosophers of religion were then, and there arguments just as illbased and misconcieved. If I publish a short story, I'm taking part in the great human commentary which spans all written time and experience. A scientist is merely poking something with a stick to see what happens; not to say their work isn't important, its just work.
Strawman. That's not what I said, all I said was, "Convince me of this," since he was making a claim. I'm not making any assertions about "all humans."
Literally, not an argument
tell me, do christfags act like arrogant blowhards online to make up for being so meek and timid irl?
You're the one who just admitted he is suffering, bub. Learn not to project.
>truth exists
Stop shitposting.
>arguments are good because the fedora in my heart says so
>calling Veeky Forums a whole body
>getting your feeling hurt online
I don't like when people criticize God without even trying, like other people said its obnoxious and there's too many great thinkers out there who I respect including joyce who were christians or believed heavily at one point in their life and that's enough for me to respect the faith.
Hey your that guy from hereWhats your endgame anyway? Are you trying to make christians look bad?
i want you to die (hopefully no hell)
have you ever been to a church? churchgoers are very bombastic
>>arguments are good because the fedora in my heart says so
>telling people to "stop shitposting" while you're shitposting
>doing anything i dont like must be shitposting
Wow, telling somebody to die over an anonymous internet weeaboo image board takes real gumption. Maybe next you could insult my mother?
your mom is probably a very nice woman who doesn't deserve having to worry about your eternal soul
for the record OP, this is why
She doesn't, she thinks it's nonsense as well. I thank you for your concern though.
>ask christians to give a coherent argument
>get called names
Yep, par for the course
>Are the same people who make posts about the illusion of consciousness and free will the same people who call anyone who shits on religion a fedora tipper?
No
Who said I wanted to be left alone? I want people to think I'm brilliant.
Veeky Forums is a meta-Orthodox board.
>why wont you give me a two sentence proof of your ridiculously complex belief system within my own personal epistemological framework?
>can't do it huh? checkmate Christfags!
Its a belief, just like any other. Except, unlike other beliefs, christian beliefs have no bearing on our world, and following christian dogma does not effect it. Why believe in god when science shows me so much more?
To add to my previos post, every other philosopher and thinker has cogent arguments when you approach them about their beliefs, they're more then willing to defend and debate ideas. But when christians are approached with any kind of argument they're like the worst kind of activist, the ones who plug their ears and say "lalala I can't hear you god is the one and only and most holy" because they don't want to even consider "wrong-thoughts". How can you be so firm in your beliefs if they haven't been shredded befote you, leaving only your mind to help pick up the pieces and rebuild it to something stronger. No one will ever respect christians with that attitude, and nonetheless, even god can't respect you guys anymore. No one in America has lived a christian life. We are a society of decadence and luxury. Sin runs through our veins. If one man were to be saved in all this ruin, live a true ascetic lifestyle, they would not be christian. They would be a disciple of Nietzche, or maybe, they'd become pure from their own conclusions. Its a farce and a joke and a hope and nothing more.
>our world
Ideology
Science shows you nothing, ideologue.
Wrong, you don't understand philosophy. m-m-m-m-m-muh lawwwwwwwwjik!
>Why believe in god when science
Fedoratism par excellence.
t. atheist
>Wrong, you don't understand philosophy. m-m-m-m-m-muh lawwwwwwwwjik!
Oh god, not this retard.
I remember you from Veeky Forums.
>anybody i dont like must be le retarded!
Zizek is a pseud, no one cares.
>>anybody i dont like must be le retarded!
Well if you think "logic" is an insult then yes.
Veeky Forums is not a monolith. I've consistently criticized theists here, as well as capitalists.
Yes it is, there's no non-referential defense for it.
You don't need to defend it, it's simply true.
1+1=2 and that's one of the few things that can be certain.
heisenberg wrote some papers on the defense of faith. that's protestant, but you're probably not ready for catholicism, orthodoxy, or the more eastern religions. protestantism and atheism are like babby's first US american belief system, like the corn syrup of beliefs.
>it's true because is said so
>1+1=2 and that's one of the few things that can be certain.
You're delusional.
Protestantism is unironically the best form of Christianity.
Does 1+1 not equal 2?
>let me post a youtube video to mask the fact I have no argumentative basis for my rampant fedoratism
I wouldn't be surprised if you start calling people cucks as an argument soon.
>live a decadent unchristian life
>call yourself a protestant
>go to heaven
wew
Why would it? You're presupposing logic. You cannot defend logic, if logic is paramount then it must be defensible by itself.
Just accept that you believe in the 'reason' meme because of secular Christianity, and before that secular Paganism, thinking it is something divine.
Atheism is no crime as long as it's done tastefully and cultivated with due diligence.
It's the people who don't understand the gravity and heady depths of heresy, who labor "Atheism" with a gross teleology they inherited from the very theists they oppose who conscript science for dogma, and never know anything other than their dreary material hopes of immortality, that are the problem. Don't ally yourself with them, they who keep their fedora's troubling all night and day, to thinker and lady alike.
"Believing in God" is the latest hottest contrarian meme against Reddit in 2015-2017.
Hahaha fucking first post best post
How many cups are in this picture?
Just like how a worm won't understand how the sun works in its lifetime. Humans would never find out how the earth was created.
There is no use in being a fedora tipper when you can't understand how the earth works.
Read bible before hating it.
>Do whatever you want.
>Tell a priest about it and play with some beads
>Go to heaven
wew
did you ever stop and think that maybe the problem isnt with Christians, but with yourself?
Your arrogance is stifling. Nobody is going to want to engage with you. You haven't shown an iota of willingness to be convinced of anything, and since you demonstrate no familiarity with any theological texts, everyone can see that discussing religious faith with you on 'intellectual' grounds would be a fruitless endeavor.
I hope that one day you will hear God who is always calling out to you. On that day, embrace him, and hold fast. Look towards him and avert your gaze. His kingdom may seem small and faint from a great distance, but as you strive towards it the magnificence and splendor come into view. When you are weary from your journey, he will give you rest.
I was baptized in 2008, try again fucko.
Dawkins is about as qualified to speak on religious prescription as Chomsky is on political prescription.
come now, user, catholics don't believe they're going to heaven, just not the same level of hell as prods
*never avert
>they resent looking back on a reflection of themselves over-correcting and going full-blown hat-tipper for a phase.
Many a young loaf-tender does the dance of apology to this day, hoping to wash away the shame of those arrant loafless years.
There is but one loaf, the love almighty,
creator of meat and death, and all things edible and inedible. So saith our ancient creed.
They are desperate to be rebellious against their mommies and normie hipster youth SJW culture which is predominately atheist and leftist, they think by clinging on to conservative western culture in a half-assed wanna-be way they are somehow being the opposite of what they are against. Which is reddit, hipsters, SJWs, etc. If they were teleported back in time when being christian and conservative was the norm they still wouldn't fit in because in the end the problem plaguing them isn't rooted in ideology it's rooted in that they were born an outcast and a freak, therefore blindingly swinging in a reactionary way against the grain is just another vain attempt to somehow fit in some click.
I have the feeling a majority of Veeky Forums is going through a phase in which they started out as atheist fedoras in middleschool or something, then they discover /pol/ and become conservative, then maybe sometime down the line they will realize the immaturity of it all. Hopefully at least.
Maybe people don't realize that calling someone a "fedora" and using buzzwords like "reddit" etc is exactly the same type of stupid reactionary shit actual neckbeards do against religious people.
lol
the state of Veeky Forums these days
Counterpoint: I hope one day you will join me in hell, making gay war on heaven, with the gorgeous boy Lucifer, second in beauty only to god, second in poetry to none.
What a dreamboat. All hail Venus, The Morning Star, Lucifer, the prettiest boy of them all, with all his hot poetic talk.
Says rhe loudmouthed little babby no one can tolerate for his constant prescriptive proselytizing
Surely none of you is unironically a believer right?
You are doing it for hipster cred right?
Wouldn't even be surprised if 9 year olds ran this board.
>dedicating your life to finding it is unrewarding and unfulfilling
god damn it you autists
Pretty sure there is a hearty contingent of True Believers on Veeky Forums. Honestly, they are pretty high-quality posters when they don't let their godlove overflow them.
They know way more about literature than most entry-level fedoras and cultivate interesting spiritual intellects in their pursuit of god..
Because atheism shows lack of intellectual rigour
I want to snuggle Lucia Joyce.
I've noticed a large amount of Veeky Forums Christians are incredibly smug, dumb and write extremely pseud posts. I have a hunch 4 years ago these people were fedora atheists that experienced a brief moment of self-awareness that they were mega-pseuds but rather than undergoing the introspection to not be a pseud they decided atheism was the problem and that by converting to Christianity this would fix their personal problems.
It would explain why a lot of Christposting reads like bizarro /r/atheism.
you use pseud a lot
Not per se but in its popular form, yes.
You could say the same about faith though. Most theists have not arrived at that position through an intellectual rigour.
>is just really fucking boring
I think this correct. But then I thought, Why not give one's heart, soul and mind to an entity that probably doesn't exist? If for no other reason than that it pre-empts this, that, or some other all-too-human idea (like Evolution) of co-opting the ground on which all such (((meme))) arguments ultimately rest? That an idea I can grasp is at the foundation of things is far less likely than that something indiscernible by my own mind (or any mind) but very much like it IS at the core. It would be a good Veeky Forums position-- the cult of the author. How well does Slothrop know Pynchon? Such is my case with respect to the.....but I am now thinking simultaneously of Leibniz and Robespierre (his cult) and have lost my faith at almost the moment I attained it.
>Am i missing something?
Yeah, a few IQ points.
90-105: unreflected faith
105-115: internet atheism
115-120: agnosticism
120-???: Christendom
*rehashes cosmological argument for the nth time*
I was 18.
Because he is one.
No atheism has any worth. Intellectualism is childish nonsense, there are better things.
>No atheism has any worth. Intellectualism is childish nonsense, there are better things.
aaand with that comment you sacrificed any validity. Byebye
.>145: syncretic folk mysticism
>waaah HOW DARE YOU DISMISS MY IDEOLOGY REEEEE
>115-120: agnosticism
Wrong, agnosticism is absolutely stupid.
I have no ideology. I'm agnostic. I consider both sides. Dismissing one outright as you do is a sign of ideology.
If you believe in any religion just kys ty :)
False. Agnosticism is for those who are nearly there. Kant was an agnostic. You are an internet atheist. Your opinion is relevant in exactly zero cases.
Next.
>agnostic
That's an ideology you fucking dope.
I'm not an atheist. Kant was a fucking dope. Agnosticism is a child's stance.
By the way, Kant wasn't an agnostic.
Agnosticism is literally a lack of a definite position.
Looks like we have a new breed of pseudo-intellectual spawned directly from Veeky Forums
First we had the pseudo-intellectual atheist. Now we have the pseudo-intellectual theist who just throws insults at anyone who disagrees with her and insisting she is smarter without engaging in any debate to prove so.
This is like, the antithesis to the fedora meme.
No it's not, you just think that way because you're an ideologue.
>her
gbtr/eddit
Child
But most christians are decidedly below 100 points.
>child
I'm 29
Then you're even more fucked than anyone could have imagined