/med/ - Med School General

It's part of the standard neurological exam, something every doctor should have in their toolkit. Romberg's sign is positive if a patient falls over or almost falls when their eyes are closed AND the patient is stable with eyes open. Its presence generally necessitates further testing.

The problem comes when you get an order from some retard PCP asking for a read on an MRI because a patient might have some sort of cerebellar dysfunction. In reality, a patient with a positive Romberg's sign does NOT have a cerebellar dysfunction because someone with cerebellar disease would be swaying with eyes open or eyes closed.

A positive Romberg's sign indicates either: 1. loss of vestibular sense or 2. loss of proprioception. This means there is either a problem in the peripheral nerves, the dorsal columns, or the ears. Common causes are B12 deficiency, untreated diabetes, spinal cord diseases (tumor, late-stage syphilis, TB, disc problems). As you can see, a brain MRI is fucking pointless in this scenario and yet it is always ordered because why not?!

Fucking normies. And horse girls. Every fuckass in Biology 101 is a horse girl.

whatever though, please correlate clinically

Are you in med school or residency or?

I am presently in a very dark room

Does untreated diabetes cause failed Romberg's because the nerves in the feet are going to crap?

Same, but yo how did you get so smart?

That's correct, user. All other causes of peripheral neuropathy can do this as well. In a very simplified explanation proprioception is relayed by the peripheral nerves up to the dorsal columns then up to the brain.

You will be this smart one day too user. I believe in you. Pay attention during your rotations and shadow when you can.

i know a mech e horse girl. kinda surprised. most of them go into psych/bio

Thanks, user. I'm looking into healthcare. I'm in college for two more semesters (excluding pre-reqs I'll need to finish if I do decide on med school).

>"why do I even need to know O Chem?"
>"it's not like I'll ever need it when I a doctor"
>"O Chem shouldn't have to be taken

She is a rare breed.

I don't even remember what they teach in OChem.

> prescribes ineffective medicine b/c what is pharmacology lol
> lol methyl groups, the prof said "meth" XD

Should I be a brain surgeon, anons? This shit is fascinating. youtube.com/watch?v=VXcZOjl9C48 [NSFL]

My girlfriend has been a pre-med student since she started school, with a lifelong goal of wanting to be a trauma surgeon. The thing is, she can't get the grades, struggles with the material and realistically won't get accepted to a med school.
How can I tell her to work towards something else as a more realistic career choice and that she won't make it to med school?

Fascinating and sadly futile. GBM is brutal and invariably fatal. It doesn't sound like she had any improvement in her quality of life from the operation, either. That's life in neurology and neurosurgery, though. Personally, I think something like infectious diseases is much more rewarding- being able to actually cure the majority of patients with the judicious and prudent application of medicine is a wonderful feeling.

I can tell you I am going in to healthcare to help patients with these bad boys

I don't know what you mean by 'can't get the grades', but D.O. schools will take people who can get a 3.0 average. Caribbean schools will take just about anyone who can pay the exorbitant fees. In short: never say never. I likely know many dumber doctors than your girlfriend who made it through med school just fine.

It's a little overrated, but you can have her calculate her LizzyM score online?

Are you internal medicine? Is it true that diabetes is a shittier lifelong disease than HIV? (hearsay from friends of friends of doctors)

Like, she's probably gonna fail her o chem class and have to retake it, C or D in her bio class, failed stats and has to retake it, and just gets her ass kicked on the tests.

How are D.O.s looked on as compared to an M.D?
If you're in a group of doctors and mention you got a D.O, what will they think?

How is the pay different?

don't do a pre-med major idiots. take a major that can get you a job like CS or engineering, and just take the classes you need for the mcat as electives. that would be Bio 1, Bio2 and Chem 1 - Orgo 2.

don't get stuck with a biology degree that is absolutely worthless at a bachelors level.

no difference, same pay. friend I have is D.O., currently in her neurology residency at a major hospital in FL. she's going to make boatloads of cash

And common pre-med majors don't stand out on a resume. Another biology major? Jesus. A civil engineer? Alright, this should be interesting.

I'd say that depends on quite a few factors. I think type 1 is certainly worse.

There is zero practical difference. The only people who look down on D.Os are self-righteous med school students who haven't even made it to their third year rotations yet.

Do residency programs look down on DOs?

I'm pretty sure they have their own residency programs so that isn't really a factor. the only osteopathic manipulation I do is on my wife though, so I don't know.

Nevermind, you literally answered my question already.

Who has taken the new MCAT? What was your score?

not him but freshmen arent in biochemistry courses

Are you saying that other user is a freshman? I don't understand.

My "Kid you are a freshman" was directed at the annoying pre-meds, not the user I replied to.

i see now
try reading the interaction over again, out loud if youre having trouble

i am 12 and why are you like this

Does she work or do any other activities?? Most people who can't get the grade they want are obviously not putting in enough time into their work.

Fuck I am glad I finished medschool, worst years of my life. Sucks to be you cunts

> the virgin biology student
> the chad doctor

>fell for the premed meme
>tfw want to do primary care
>retards keep telling me that primary care is for people who can't get good scores

is there a nice way to tell them to fuck off? i got a 518 so im certain im not a brainlet

whoops didnt mean to quote you

law school is better

DO detected. Looks like somebody couldn't get into a decent MD program

Primary care is getting shafted more and more these days, you may want to reconsider. I know multiple excellent doctors with over 20 tears of experience who are making less than 100k because hospitals keep fucking them over and running your own practice these days is nearly impossible.

t. Caribbean med school

It's the same exact training, they're still competitive for MD residencies, and they make the same amount of money.

>Law School
>In the current job market
Enjoy making $50k out of grad school while undergrads make $60k. And that's only if you went to a T1 or T2

My pre-med major was biology and I graduated with a 3.0, realized I did fuck all as an undergrad and stopped fucking around.

In a grad program now hauling a 4.0 and taking MCAT for second time in spring.

Still have nothing substantial for extracurriculars though, trying to get into an ER scribe position but apparently HR is nonexistent at the hospitals in my area.

That's very sweet of you

I'm doing my clinical rotations in my 3rd year of med school. Everything except for Emergency Medicine has been incredibly boring. I think I know what I want to do.

Keep at it, user. Worst case, check Craigslist for scribe jobs.

The debt is killer though. $500k for Caribbean schools, no?

Would you say it is Type II fun?

That's like 1000% ROI

>actually interested in ochem
>it's kind of fun trying to figure out how to get from point a to point b
>professor is pretty nice too
>other premeds bitch and moan
>they keep blaming the professor cause they think she goes too fast or jumps around too much

It's like a fun puzzle.

doctors trade their time for money while a lawyer can make money passively if they are street smart

>grew up thinking doctors were smart
>turns out they just remember shit well
I can't believe the highest math med students take is calc 1 at the very most. Veeky Forums calls engineers stupid yet they have to take all calc courses plus diff eq and linear algebra.

You mean like this guy?

exactly

LOL i was thinking of him when I read that post.

What street smart avenues can a lawyer go down? Besides scenarios we already saw Better Caul Saul.

>What is your pre-med major
I'm a med student and this pre-med thingy surprises me, why is the American system so weird?

Background
>Highschool chemistry and biology
>BSc Mechanical engineering + accounting
>about to finish my MEng in mechanical
>A couple of internships at oil+gas firms
I was just told by my parents that I should go to med school and they will pay for it.
I will have to study biology and chemistry my self before I do the entrance exams.

Should I pursue this or just stick it out as an engineer?

Be an engineer. Don't go down the med school road this late for no reason.

Disease of the week- read up on Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome if you want to familiarize yourself with a very common clinical entity (approx 10% of all men in studies) that gets the short end of the stick because urologists are surgeons and hate every second they spend in clinic hours. Diagnosis of exclusion after ruling out the usual suspects: cancer, STDs, anatomical defects. Treatment is alpha blockers and physical therapy. No antibiotics unless you get infection (not common skin flora lol) on urine/semen culture, which you probably won't because 95% of cases have no infection. Fun historical fact: this disease used to be called 'prostatodynia' or 'chronic prostatitis' and still is in some circles in spite of the fact that it has nothing to do with the prostate and instead is believed to represent a dysfunction of the muscles in the pelvic floor.

This makes perfect sense because in my humble experience most doctors seem lost when they have to think out of the box. I suspect they just have a bunch of flow charts like call center operators and as soon as the conventional patterns break they scratch their heads in confusion.

Met one doctor who did a spinal tap on me and when I asked when she started her medical career she said 4 like years ago. That's like barely enough to accomplish some baseline competency in far less complicated fields. What does some 23 year old bimbo know anyhow? And then you gotta lead them with specific questions if you see them blanking out, because they get butt blasted if you dare to make any attempt theorize about might be wrong. At the end it feels more like making a glorified google search than talking to an actual person. These cunts don't even take notes.

Besides that all these most doctors are dull fucks with about as much personality as a loaf of bread. I saw one dude rock a man bun though, I suppose that was the "crazy one" like totally unique and all, what a guy. Jeeesh.

Legit question- what is with all the doctor animosity on Veeky Forums? I've never seen this anywhere else.

Veeky Forums has people who are probably curious about their health and research it online. Finding the likely cause to an ailment with a 5 minute Google makes doctors seem less useful.

how strange I'm now an m1 and would scour Veeky Forums for med school threads now I can't stomach to read it. The med school path can be unforgiving. So much studying so much sacrifice. However really, how many other things in life can you guarantee a secure well paying job if you just get good grades.
In a way it was easier for me, because if I didn't get in I would have to face the big wide world out their with a undergrad biochem degree and all my time sunk to make myself competitive for med school.
Life is strange it gets better premed friends.

Side note, sharks and the like and a type personalities that exist are an interesting breed of people. The whole high school cliquishness is also interesting. You can also trace back the stuck up attending to them being a shark in med school and a jock in undergrad.

Non traditional students are the best kind of people from what I see, best attitude coming and and treat it more like a job instead of a frat/sorority high school science fair.

Ramblings sorry

yep, currently in a virology based lab that is looking for phages that can infect the amoeba burkholderia, amoebas are eukoryotic so were looking for what genes can be edited/removed. so far made them glow gree.

Seriously just be an engineer.
I've seen a couple nontraditional students with families and entire careers behind them and their DEAD set on medicine and considered every option.
Your next 8 years will not be yours financiallly, socially and mentally. If your 28 you won't be working till your almost 40 and will also be setback in the 100ks. Want to do surgery or any sub surgery specialty? Congrats on graduating in your 40s and finally making a single dime off your labor
Listen man, I got in young and got into a fast track program I wouldn't do it any other way.

Neat. Where are you located? I don't know of much phage work going on in the USA...

Don't get me wrong. I don't hate doctors on principle and I think a lot of them do amazing work, but then I suppose by defintion the bulk of the medical field is mediocre, while some doctors are outright dangerous.

Having said that, in my mind the bad doctors simply do not deserve the same amout of respect just by association with the good ones. Especially considering the displayed levels of systemic arrogance, which hasn't been earned but is taken for granted. Some cunt who has been watching too many episodes of Scrubs or something shouldn't walk around like hot shit. Specifically when they're basically just riding the backs of far more experienced nurses, who do most of the actual workload.

In my own experience nurses are some of the most ignorant people ever when it comes to actual medicine. They are good at practical things like how to set up drips efficiently, how to best move patients, et cetera, but there is nothing scarier to me than the words "nurse practicioner".

As I progress in med school I see this more and more. Funnily enough the more subspecislized they are the farther they are up their own rabbit hole I wouldn't trust them to read an ekg. But more often than not their are mavericks out their.
To some people it's a job where they make ends meet and treat it that way, to others it's an art that they keep up to date with. Those good role models really attract me to academic medicine, I could churnout patient in some private practice but I know that isn't any fun.

reminder that if your doctor orders one of these tests hes an idiot

choosingwisely.org/societies/american-society-for-clinical-pathology/

Nurses who are in their field for years can be pretty smart. I think however a lot of the time because nurses are primarily women their is a lot ego boosting for what they do. Yes what they do is important and yes some are good st their job, but a nursing running at maximum intellectual capacity is not exactly rigorous, or something to be proud of. These tough as nails my way or the highway old surgeon nurses at the end of the day just gown the doctor and pass tools ans are sterile about it. How often are young student doctors told to get on the nurses good side to get good at your rotation, like their some kind of secretary or janitor on your way to an interview that you don't say hello to them right and they put in a bad word in for you. if it wasn't s female dominated field it wouldn't get all this unjust praise, much like being a mom is the " hardest job in the world"

Can doctors suck? Mostly yes. Are nurses key components of a team? Yeah of course but so is a skilled ultrasound tech and radiation tech.

Lots of older nurses have said the training is not the same anymore these days for nurses. Too fast and not enough clinical experience.

I don't think nurses should be arrogant either. It's good to know your own limitations and to be able to admit faults, in order to grow from those. Probably both nurses and doctors have unique views that benefit can benefit the other side. At least in theory I guess.

Does this get encouraged by the medical pipeline? Heard some of the more lofty demeanour is encouraged to prevent a personal connection to the patient, or rather to stay objective and to build trust, even though it might backfire. On the other hand I also have heard many of the students already have elitst attitudes, even before they pick up medschool.

Great people exist in this world that take their studies seriously and are both interested in their craft and helping patients. I saw them as undergrad, I see them in med school, see them as residents, and you see great attendings who are great teachers and truly care.
The etilist sharks that exist I realize we're always their. The adderall jock who studies and crams and talks all about med school all the time and is involved with sga, church, talks open about student doctor network ( an important premed forum but can be toxic), and is generally aggregating? Well they are distilled into dozens of people in med school. I can't count how many times I'm talked over in a group setting or public setting. I can't count how many times they shoe horn in diversity when speaking to administration and get oos and aaahs because they are playing the game using words like privileged and gender fluid for the sake of brownie points. These are people who are trying to game the system any which way to get what they want. They steal books and other shit. As residents they will steal your patients, one up you in front of attendants and sabotage your workspace. This is a good 30 percent of med srudenrs, and my med school is very friendly. These guys are always in" interview" mode in which they always try to say the right things and get underhanded ways to get what they want.

I find no traditional students the best. They have no illusions of the debt they will incur, they take no pride in how many hours they will be in the OR or how little sleep they get, and don't get involved in student government whatever or Hispanic gay appreciation month whatever just because It's a resume filler.

Rant over
Take it as a grain of salt, many doctors were always dicks in or out of school. Certain specialities create a culture where usually these alpha jock type a personality compete in this gayness. At the same Time great doctors DO exist.

There was some technician or whatever doing the EKG for me and at the end I asked her about what she thought, because I assumed she saw a lot of stuff and should be able to make an educated guess. She said she probably could do that but wouldn't, because one time a patient shared her statements with of his doctors and that guy chewed her out pretty hard. Relatively young guy too.

Anyhow, later the guy said I might have some panic disorder and should do a 24 hour EKG in the future. At that point I could've really benefited from an addional point of view but I suppose his ego was more important. The online reviews also said the guy was far too loose with the psycho somatic diagnoses, while other hospitals actually figured the problem out. Like microtoxins or whatever that dissipate quickly in the blood and are hard to pin point unless you take a stool sample
maybe. But I'm no doctor obviously. It just curious that guy didn't even care for my diet for example. Eventually I had to unfuck myself on my own guesswork, cleaned up my diet, and don't have any problems anymore.

This whole thing is kinda fucked up because another review talked about how one of the doctors there got mad and send him to the psychological section, for threating to complain about the doctor officially. Turns out some other guy who was friends with doctor wrote favorable diagnosis which later was thrown out by the personal doctor of the reviewer. Another guy said he was tied to the bed for weeks, which I believe, because I heard screams coming from the station at night while smoking a cigarette. I don't want to be dragged into those grinding wheels just because some dude felt lazy. Which probably happens all the time.

Their is a culture and status that attracts people to being a doctor and that brings out the worst in people.
The opposite also exists of doctors who truly care and are smart. Their is a lot of creativity, visual skill, and technical skill that can be created only from literally eating a textbook and copy pasting information into your brain. Once at that memory point only real geniuses shine beyond that

To be fair their are some good technicians out their. They can recognize things and know generally what they mean but not much beyond that. Much like being able to distinguish let's say 60 different shades of red is impressive, but then what are their molecular differences, how does treatment differ, etc.

Please shop around for other doctors I'm sorry doctors can be dicks, they are not immune to doing shit like what happened to you.

to be completely fair i think you probably understand that patients are notorious for reacting violently whenever there is the mere suggestion of a psychosomatic illness in spite of the fact that they are actually more prevalent than you might think

Maybe. Just in my case I was at the same hospital a year earlier after having parkinson like seisures and by left face being paralyzed. I could think properly, couldn't remember words, all that shit. Then I did spend a week there and seemingly recovered, so much that the doctors and nurses seemed pissed off at me and got eventually told some psychobabble how I should go home the next day. Then one day later I had my bag packed and everything and was only waiting for my dad and got another seizure, but worse. They do a spinal tap and look at that, turns out I have more white blood cells than usual in my brain and they diagnose a meningitis.

I still remember that smug bastard sitting on my bed telling me something about how it was psychological, even if he danced around a little verbally. Anyhow, if I had been released earlier and happened to drive somewhere while getting a seizure like that I could've killed my or other people. Just because of that cunt.

I'm not getting mad easily and it's not like I would've punched the guy out, but this didn't sit with me right. Now the last time, which wasn't too long ago, I felt like before the last meningitis got severe. I didn't have the same seizures at that point, but felt like oh shit, better do something. So I went to that same hospital again and got the groundhog day program completely with some dude telling me it's just psychogical. I had to demand another spinal tap and luckily enough this wasn't another miningits, even though I had like microseizures I can't really explain. They send me home and write a letter which doesn't represent what I said, which was the point where I said fuck it and cleaned myself up personally.

I never had the urge to go violent and didn't even get loud, but I lost a lot of respect for doctors. Some at least. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not.

Sorry for the bad writing by the way. I should proof read more.

Anybody in here a pathologist or a resident of pathology?

I'm currently a forensic tech at a medical examiner's office. Med school still isn't entirely off the table. I'd only want to be a surgeon or a forensic pathologist though. I like the intellectual challenge but I also like working with my hands, not enough to be a tech forever though.

If not medicine, I'll most likely get back into health information systems as a system analyst. Currently only have a BS in Biology but I could go back to my old hospital and get a 68k job pretty easily in a pretty cheap city.

Currently year 2 in vet medicine

That's not bad money for a bachelors. The. X years you would be working no pay plus debt, a doctor would only come out ahead of you by the time their in 40s

Pathology is dead and dying supposedly.