What comes after post-modernism? Neo-modernism?

lots of sex for women
lots of nihilism for men

Just do what you like, op.

You are not alone in thinking such a thing...

Regressivism

New appreciation.

Remodernism has already come and went. It's good but it was never a feasible solution.

you're an idiot but you are right insofar as unbridled capitalism will consume just about everything

i-is there any way to combat post-modernism and the commodification of culture, tradition, and social justice without becoming a filthy leftist nation?

Stop thinking about this in terms of progression through styles. Modernism and Post-Modernism can be understood as styles or fashions but that misses the point.

The break between Classicism and Modernism comes with the belief in positivist progress and technological advancement over the classicist view of the world as eternal and fundamentally unchanging. The break between modernism and post-modernism comes with the dillisuion with positivism after Hiroshima, the Holocaust and the banality of a consumer society.

The descriptions put forward by philosophers like Debord, McLuhan and Baudrillard still function as an accurate view of contemporary society. Just because some of these books are 50 years old doesn't mean they are outdated.

People mentioning NRx, or advocating a return to tradition (either in a classicist christian sense or a modernist techno-positivism) aren't wrong to advocate these as alternatives, but they aren't fundamentally new ways to understand the world.

tldr: don't worry about surpassing post-modernism, it's still an accurate description of our ideological reality.

good post

Nothing.

It's like asking what comes after capitalism. These aren't movements, these are conditions of your existence. Robots and automation are going to automate everything that can be automated. Life will go on as it always has, as an evanescent fantasy of middle-class life accessible to fewer and fewer in reality and broadcasted to more and more via advertisement. And perhaps eventually to be lived remotely, in VR.

Nothing comes after this. This is how it is. Put yourself in a place where you are best able to cope with it, don't expect theorists to change anything. They can't. Just put yourself in a place where there is the least amount of internal dissonance, where you have to tell as few lies as possible, where you have to represent as little as possible.

Tech is going to displace and uproot the foundations of society. In the meantime old-fashioned naive consumer life will go on as it always does, blissfully unaware, and fortunate, and dull.

Do what you can to get on the ark that is leaving this junk-ridden world.

My plan is to either go full innawoods or fully embrace consumerist vapidity and live happily through that

You fucking retard, the writers you deem as "post-modernism" were activelly writing AGAINST that, that was a huge fucking deal for the left for the longest time.

I fucking hate this, fucking capitalism commodified all aspects of life and then a bunch of retarded 15 year olds going through their first electoral cycle decide it wasn't capitalism, but communism fault.

It doesn't matter if they were writing against that, dummy. That wasn't relevant to what I was saying

The postmodern pattern of attempted abolishment of definition, categorization, and hierarchy has been undeniably commodified to be sold back to the rich and numerous 15-25 year old "activists" because it makes them feel good in the face of consumerism and they'll shell out top trust-fund dollar to keep that feeling rolling

I am not philosophically left wing in the slightest but I can not deny that this has all been caused by the capitalist mentality of sacrificing all sustainable things like culture and tradition for some short-term profit, and I have been trying to find a solution that isn't socialism or communism. Not because "waahh muh spooky gommies" but because I just deeply disagree with the moral and behavioral implications of left-wing political systems

What are these moral and behavioral implications, and most of all, how are they worse than capitalism.

The idea that all should be responsible for the carrying of the few, that social and political hierarchy should be force-abolished just because it's "unfair," that your existence from day one should be devoted to feeding the system you were born into

A communist society is one without goals, without hope. Humans think they want equality but they do not. That's part of why the notion of God is so widespread throughout all cultures. Humans need a level above themselves to hope to join some day. Communism starves the populace of that and will lead to an even more nihilistic culture than capitalism has

The Sixth Seal has been opened.

>things like culture and tradition

It fucking baffles my mind that Veeky Forums has become a haven for traditionalists and conservatives. This is a message board filled with porn, hentai and video game memes.

I really don't understand the backlash against leftism. The moral relativism of leftist ideologies tends to support your right to post on a weirdo message board and jerk off to fetish porn. Leftism supports your right be a weirdo, to not live up to masculine stereotypes that most of us could never attain anyways.

In what world does traditional values, white nationalism, christian revialism or just conservatism in general line up with Veeky Forums? I just don't get it.

Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world. They just want some space for their own brand of outsiderness. I think we can give them that.

>combat

divorce yourself from deontology completely, you are manufacturing convoluted obligations for yourself, you're getting yourself all spooked up over nothing

Neo-post-modernism
Duh

I'm not a traditionalist or conservative, bub

I see a world in which a culture's aesthetics and traditions are commodified and sold to the masses. Outrage inevitably erupts from members of that culture, and then that outrage is also commodified and sold to those looking to consume without the inherent guilt they have as leftists, even if they don't realize it.

This process, left unbothered, will continue until all cultures have been digested and trivialized for profit, and all criticism of that process will also, in turn, be digested and sold.

You don't see anything wrong with that?

the alt-right shit just boils down to contrarianism

the SJW hatred is because feminists scare the shit of most young men

>postmodernists drive neoliberal capital

>The idea that all should be responsible for the carrying of the few
That's capitalism

>that social and political hierarchy should be force-abolished just because it's "unfair,"
maybe if we didn't had 300+ years of the powerfull being a bunch of deluded inbreds, people wouldn't think like that

>that your existence from day one should be devoted to feeding the system you were born into
But that's more what we have than what communism wants

>A communist society is one without goals, without hope. Humans think they want equality but they do not. That's part of why the notion of God is so widespread throughout all cultures. Humans need a level above themselves to hope to join some day. Communism starves the populace of that and will lead to an even more nihilistic culture than capitalism has

Honestly my dude, don't try to talk to me about a society without goals or hope because this is pretty much what me and my generation have been living in our CAPITALIST country.

In a communist society, I'd be free enough to pursue my interests, be them WH40K or woodcutting, to mention two things I can't possibly apply myself to as long as I can ony get the kind of sub-employment jobs capitalism deems me worthy for.

>It fucking baffles my mind that Veeky Forums has become a haven for traditionalists and conservatives.
>I really don't understand the backlash against leftism. The moral relativism of leftist ideologies tends to support your right to post on a weirdo message board and jerk off to fetish porn. Leftism supports your right be a weirdo, to not live up to masculine stereotypes that most of us could never attain anyways.
>In what world does traditional values, white nationalism, christian revialism or just conservatism in general line up with Veeky Forums? I just don't get it.

That feel when no girlfriend. That feel when no girlfriend. That feel when no girlfriend. Why don't I have a girlfriend? Women only want Chads. Why do women only want Chads? They married betas in the old days. Why did that go away? Because of the Jews, clearly.

It all starts from >tfw no gf, which imo arises in rich countries from the inability of most men to secure satisfactory socio-economic status due to the decline of decent-paying work for people of mediocre intelligence.

>which imo arises in rich countries from the inability of most men to secure satisfactory socio-economic status
I think you're discounting the confirmation bias inherent to Veeky Forums, most of us are fucking weirdos

I see what's wrong with that, because I'm a leftist who's somewhat aquainted with the last hundred years of critical theory, and that's ALL THE FUCKING CRITICAL THEORISTS HAVE BEEN RAMBLING ON FOR THE PAST HUNDRED FUCKING YEARS, the same critical theorists you fucking dolts accuse of promoting "cultural marxism" (lel) while you actively promote the mode of production which has caused all this situation in the first place.

I just can't deal with this shit anymore, I gotta admit, muh 100 million was actually too little, Stalin should've gone full on nuclear holocaust on this fucking piece of shit world.

shit not confirmation bias, selection bias

>Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world.
You don't live where I do, dude. I live in San Francisco (for only 180 more days, thank god) and all notions of open conversation and social camaraderie have been stifled. There is little friendship across races here. Day-to-day interactions between whites and blacks especially is suffocatingly anxious, tense, and forced. All white people here (I'll even admit, including myself) are TERRIFIED at all waking moments of "slipping up" and saying something "they" don't like. This is equally unfair to the black people who don't play into this insanity because all interactions they have with white people are comprised of nervous smiles and stutters

I thought this shit was normal until I took a trip to Chicago and I was amazed at just how friendly everyone was being to each other. Even in a city with crime rates far higher than SF, whites and blacks were just comfortably striking up conversation on trains and in restaurants. There was a relaxation in the social scene that I hadn't ever seen in SF

It was one of the saddest moments of realization of my life

Oh yeah, I agree with the notion that a consumer society is a problem. Not just from the point of view of stupefying people, but also from an ecological point of view.

But if you ask me, the only people engaging on this topic in good faith are the "post-modernists", in particular Debord, McLuhan, Baudrillard, Foucault, Lyotard, Harroway, Butler, Zizek, etc.

I'm not disturbed by leftist criticism of consumerism being popularized, the obvious face of it being the SJW crowd. If you ask me, they're doing more good than harm, even if their identity politics can be annoying.

To me, the problem isn't degradation of high culture and criticism into pop culture comodity. The problem is end point of capitalism (ecological disaster, most likely), the end point of nationalism (total war), and possible nightmare scenarios of technology (from AI genocides against Humanity, to post-human genetic alteration).

I think if anything, the mainstreaming of environmentalism, feminism, anti-capitalism/consumerism are the only way out.

If capitalism tries to package this and sell it back to us in hypocritical forms, then we just need to raise awareness and fight it on a case by case basis.

But if the women have lots of sex, will it not be with the nihilistic men?

You are conflating several different posting bodies under a unified ideology.

There are some who have outgrown/grown indifferent to politics and will take any opportunity to attack any political stance as anaesthetic and outside art.

There are populist, nationalist libertarians who relish private perversions but want their presence removed from national discourse.

And, of course, there are a lot of teenagers running around aping their parent's political positions, bound by idealism and sentiment to tradition.

Check out Peter Sloterdijk, if you haven't already.

If there's any such thing as an 'alt-left', he's one of its foci.

Oh lord my guy, you need to do some thinking

>Get over your resentment of the SJW. They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world.

THIS is your image of communism, THIS is the appeal to you. What happens when everyone in that society wants to play WH40K? How can you ensure that doesn't happen?

There would be no plumbers in a communist society. No sewer cleaners. No men willing to risk their lives building tall skyscrapers. If some, then very few.

The hierarchy of capitalism is what keeps everything moving. As unfair as it may seem, you need a class of people desperate for a job to keep everything moving steadily. Desperation is what fills those cracks. That's why immigrants are so much more willing to take the jobs no one wants, they're just happy to get the work.

Who in a communist society would decide that their place in the world is to scrub hospital bedpans for the rest of their lives? You're kidding yourself if you think it'd be enough.

I've got a copy of Neither Sun Nor Death, but it was a little esoteric, probably not a great place to start. I've also read maybe the first half of Critique of Cynical Reason, before I graduated and lost my library account. I've read about some of the disagreement and controversy over his Human Zoo essay.

I'm surprised he's considered "alt", my impression was that he's fairly mainstream left in Germany. He had a TV show.

Fuck I didn't mean to quote that line, I meant to quote
>In a communist society, I'd be free enough to pursue my interests, be them WH40K or woodcutting

Pretty sure they just want the "necessary evil" of public space to be as antiseptic as possible. They want their private markets, their private lives, their private prejudices and perversions.

Ideally they seem to want a tidy little of government that enforces tidy little contract laws That's what unites "gamer gate" and communism in their mind, impingement by foreign bodies into spaces they'd like to keep private. A lot of them think of this impingement as heterogeneous in terms of race, at the most basic level, and cultivation at the most sophisticated.

I don't even wanna lift the blame on SJWs on this one, but first of all, racial tensions have never been even close to resolved in american society, this shit was bound to happen.

I never said I'd play WH40K 24/7, and I doubt most people would.

You know who would fix the plumbing? People who aren't willing to drown in shit. The fact that you think people will only do anything if they're ordered to tells me more about you than about communism. There are plenty communal experiments in which people aren't dying with the black plague, which goes to show that even in communist societies there still exists some semblance of personal responsability, but capitalism completely erases that in the name of "you must do becase you'll starve to death if you don't"

Also, I legit hope your line about no one wanting to buy skyscrappers is real, because at least in my country, we already have enough housing for twice the homeless population, skyscrappers are only built because some vain fuck thinks he can become a post-modern pharoah if he fucks up with the landscape hard enough.

No, dummie, it will be with the small pool of aesthetic letztemenschen, because sex is about jockeying for social status for women.

Have you ever noticed that in all of these towns and other very small areas like Kerala in India where communism has been "shown to work" are always very small communities? Of course it works there, the communities are very tightly knit and traditional, and the social pressure to contribute is amplified due to that familiarity among the populace

The larger a communist society gets, the less you will see these "working class heroes" doing the dirty work no one else wants to do. The pressure to do so will not be strong enough. Humans act in self interest, and try as you may, you will never harbor a social attitude that eliminates that fact.

but they reason they want to keep it private it is because they're subconsciously ashamed by those things. and the social justice types who bring it into the zeitgeist and put a spotlight on them put them into a psychological schism where the only options are to hate yourself or hate the people making you think about hating yourself, and the solution for most of Veeky Forums is to just do both.

I'm viewing the political spectrum and terrain through an American lens. 'Leftism' here is basically just a scrabble to put out a thousand tiny fires, many of its own making, and its full integrated in the capitalist political economy, and barely even pays lip service to something like a different course. I think there is a more 'authentic' public engagement with deep issues in Germany, even if a consensus is hard to come by, so someone like Sloterdijk can find a sympathetic and interested audience there.

So? I never said we had to be one kind under the hammer and sickle, I believe no one should have to deal with more than 2000 people during their whole lfes

Fucking kek, good luck enforcing that throughout society without brutal oppression

You're far overthinking things - I used to browse /v/ during the gamer gate fiasco and what seemed to unite them was a sensation of an excessive politicization and nepotism in their medium. Most gamers were fine with the occasional jab at whom the author didn't like beforehand, but gamer gate turned them extremely sensitive to anything political. Remember that it happened before the concept of an altright materialized.

void

Except in wasn't "in their medium". It was about game *journalism*, specifically places like Kotaku, which who the fuck reads in the first place? The obvious solution to their whole crusade was to just stop reading those publications. The reason it was such a big crusade for the community was because they thought it was part of the broader social justive movement, which I remember seeing push back against for years. They might have laundered their intentions intellectually through some notion of ethics that were being broken but what they actually did was start posting obscene things at people on Twitter.

Posterior-modernism

>being afraid of embracing the Meltdown process

pussy

black metal

is this supposed to be a Land reference?

The end of civilization

what do you think?

I think based on your posting style, probably. But then you're either just shitposting or an idiot. Which are you?

>Right=authoritarian
Are you stupid or what

Read the gulag archipelago by solshenitzen
The left is mutating into its authoritarian mode in the us and worldwide behind identity politics and language control
Historically the authoritarian left has committed the worst atrocities worldwide

No.

No.

That sounds fun.

>They literally aren't oppressing you or ruining the world. They just want some space for their own brand of outsiderness.
youtube.com/watch?v=r5_Pv0A-xjE
Not to mention their hate crimes against people who they don't agree with, trying to get people fired for jokes on twitter, rabid infestation at campuses all over the world etc.

both
I'm a shitposting idiot.

Hyper-structuralism in poetry
Nothing in prose
Renaissance of Video Games

>Renaissance of Video Games

Maybe among older people not on Veeky Forums all the time, you have people whose wives dump them when they lose status, as opposed to being neets with no gf. It's close enough.

DELET

post-postmodernism

The complete and utter dislocation of individual consciousness from linear place and time.

I'm actually planning revival of romanticism and realism, but don't tell anyone.

I don't know anyone who would care, anyway.

Wasn't post-modernism anti-art? They succeeded in killing art so art is no more.

Shit. This kinda put my whole life in some different perspective. I've always kinda believe I will live to see a change, a return to something greater and better. A time where a new Mozart and a new Michelangelo reside. Your post makes much more sense than that.

hyper-modernism

It's a good post for sure. It kind of puts into words what I've been feeling but couldn't articulate.

>no one cares anymore
This is why all attempts at new movements or revivals of old ones are doomed to fail. Public interest has forever evaporated, lost in a digital aether.

I live in SF too, I don't feel this at all, maybe just the people you surround yourself with. I'm Arab and my friend group consists of whites, Mexicans and blacks and we all equally talk about those distinctions and no one is ever offended because we are friends, why would we have nefarious opinions of the people I choose to surround myself in? There is definitely some annoying shit, discussion of history in class can get pretty bad, and people assuming I'm some downtrodden Muslim that needs their sympathy(my family are Catholic Palestinians) but overall I think the divide is greatly exaggerated in the bay area, my only complaint in the cost of living

all artistic movements were ultimately just what was popular among moneyed classes

It's probably because I'm younger, just now about to go to college. These kids are void of personality. They have applied the squeaky clean, self-congratulating, we-have-all-the-answers template to themselves and seem unable to budge. When I was 17 I told a coworker that I was a National Liberal Democrat and I was a nazi at work for a few weeks.

I think the main issue is that it is a culture that gives everyone an infallible voice, but these are children who do not know how to debate, how to compromise, how to take beliefs to their logical conclusion, or really converse with anyone who doesn't fit their template. When you give those people a voice without a level of Darwinism where those who are most well spoken and reasonable rise to the top, you cause horrendous detriment to the causes at hand and turn real issues into laughing stocks.

btw I'm a dumb young 18 year old too, I'm not claiming to be super superior. That's why I intend to keep my mouth relatively shut until I can really sort these things out.

post-post-modernism

>Neon-modernism

more boring "quirky" realist novels

same user. I'm 19 and I really cannot understand the confidence in their own world view my generation has at such a young age. every month I feel like I know less and less, this world is so complex I can't even bring myself to speak about a issue I care about because of the thousands of factors I didn't take into account, then people our age post a rant on social media assuming they've figured it out with their 3 sentences basic summary of their liking. I truly cannot understand that mentality, and that's why I'll probably die indecisive and umacomplished. I've been making a video game to kind of express this, the main point of the game is deciphering between correct and incorrect information you gather from exploring the world and solving problems. Sometimes you'll say something wrong and fuck up the story, or believe you have all the info and still lose to factors outside your control....... I don't know where I was going with this comment

>The break between Classicism and Modernism

Maybe you're all just autistic.

Exactly! The more I age and the more I learn, the more I discover just how little I know. That's not exactly a ground-breaking realization but it's very true. Emotional confidence is a fantastic trait to have but intellectual confidence is really dangerous, especially at a young age. Social media was the inevitable cause. Distillation, distillation, distillation. Distill all information and opinion until it is easy, rapid, and simple enough that Mx. Cindy Lou-Bluehair can read all of it on xer 15 minute lunch break from xer Whole Foods cashier position and hit "share" before any differing opinion can throw some more information into the mix.

I really feel like an asshole sometimes, I've lost so much respect and trust towards my friends. I also feel like a coward given that I'm scared shitless to voice my opinion at risk of further shrinking my social circle.

Anyways, that video game idea sounds really interesting and I hope you stick with it. I'd love to play it some day

rich thread

I've learned to keep my mouth shut and just observe, easier than being that guy that has to play Devils advocate constantly in an attempt to bring some sanity in a conversation. In the aimless modern age, people create their personal identify around (mostly political) opinions and questioning it is taken as a personal attack. It's just so fucking tiring trying to gauge whether or not the person I'm talking to can discuss something without viewing the discussion as a fight that needs to be won that I'll rather just not talk and rant in my notebook when I get home.

Source?

It's Danto's philosophy on Aesthetics. I just copied the wiki, it was quicker than summarizing myself.

You should check him out, though. Really good stuff.

I think this is kind of true but "followed by our post-historical era in which, with qualification, anything goes..." is the key sentence due to the idea of 'qualification'. That qualification is theory, and it is history; both intrinsically linked and the same thing that separated art from craft in the Renaissance. Since we're talking about Hegel, it is worth using the term 'emancipation' as a project of Western art. In the Renaissance, the emancipation of art was a path to social engagement. Social engagement, I believe, is a path to self-actualization. Self-actualization, as we know, is a concern of Hegel, which in turn informs the writing of Marx. Marxism influences the Situationists. The SI sought the decompartmentalisation of art and life. So what these garbage non-illusionistic works really do, in a gallery, is equip the viewer with the knowledge that everything around him is imbued with a history and has meaning in itself. The effect of the art work is not to keep the viewer in awe of the technicality of brush strokes, but -- as Renaissance works involve the close study of natural elements through drawing, arranged in a sort of bricolage -- make the viewer in awe of the source material from which the artist draws his art materials and inspiration; that is, the world around him, both past and present. The art object is beside the point, the theory is the thing. Without the art object being fetishised as a commodity, the art is without frames. The 'art effect' of worldy engagement, resonate in the viewer, continues with him outside the gallery walls. The ephemeral nature of these works means the viewer eventually forgets what caused him his inspiration in the gallery and it is just a memory, an experience, that constitutes his character.

So to answer OP, what comes after post-modernism -- the negation of modernism -- is sublation; another step closer to the emancipatory project present and slowly being realised in the West since the Renaissance.

Alternatively, we abandon this project (temporarily) and go back to form. It depends what you mean 'after', i.e. chronologically or in terms of the development of its theory

I don't know what this means exactly but it seems pretty accurate.

The 70s

This makes me laugh more than when people completely misinterpret death of the author as allowing people to completely misinterpret texts

I hope this is the beginning of a postmodern revival, or reclamation