Has anyone had a crisis over a scientific related thing? Mine was with determinism

Has anyone had a crisis over a scientific related thing? Mine was with determinism

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How do you have a crisis over things having explicable causes? And what specifically did you do, have a panic attack?

Why did you have a crisis when you realized that determinism is bullshit?

>determinism is bullshit
Better stop using all modern technology then, it's just coincidentally working because the universe doesn't have predictable cause and effect relationships.

go back to community college brainlet

There is more than one interpretation of quantum mechanics, you know? Plus, the human brain is totally deterministic for all itnents and purposes
You seem to be either autistic or a smartass. The idea of choices being predetermined and the future written can be deppressing.

All hydrogen 1s orbitals are exactly the same.
And 2s are exactly the same.
And so on.

How is that not deterministic? If I know that, should I encounter a proton with an electron around it, I know what its orbital is going to look like?

Are you retarded? Am I retarded? Is Allahu akbar?

It doesn't matter if the universe is deterministic or not. We feel as though we have choice and that's all that matters.

You are clearly un familiar with quantum mechanics. In fact; the idea of an orbital is inherently probabilistic.

you always have a 0.000001% that the electrons are not where you expect them to be

I wonder about the effect of neonatal trauma has on subsequent neurological development, eg circumcision and hospital births in general.

Why would circumsicion have an impact on brain development?

The pain of an amputation right after birth, separation from the mother, being bound and restrained.

The formation of high level conceptual awareness and self isn't required for the mind to react to certain kinds of stimuli.

Is there any correlation between circumcised men and abnormal development? Or any trauma for that matter?

Trauma in general leads to abnormal development, though like I said, I wonder.

It might be priming the mind for later dissociative behavior.

I'm not talking about the position of the electron.

I am talking about the description of the orbital.

I just don't understand. Maybe I am retarded. How can the Standard Model "model" anything if the universe is not deterministic to some extent. Modeling something involves inputting something and getting some result. Even if the results are a probability, you don't get different probabilities for the same input--because then you wouldn't "modeling" anything and the math wouldn't mean anything and formulas would be meaningless.

How could the Standard Model predict anything if there were no determinism? Never being able to know the exact position of a particle doesn't negate determinism.

Am I missing something here? Am I retarded? This seems to simple to understand. Am I in /pol/?

Non-determinism can be constrained to certain windows. It doesn't mean "literally anything can happen at any time".

I doubt the universe has any probabilistic aspect to its base nature and most of our issues have to do with finite precision and inability to measure without the apparatus altering the system it's measuring. "As above, so below" rings true for every other scale.

Doesn't matter regardless.

But world at greater scales is quite predictable, it's just at atomic scales that quatum properties fuck up the "predictability" of our universe.

>quantum
You should be auto-banned for using that word in any free will / determinism thread desu.

>The idea of choices being predetermined and the future written can be deppressing.
I don't see how. What exactly did you think you were going to will into existence in a non-deterministic world? I don't even see how you could ever think differently from the basic idea everything you do is within the bounds of physical reality and operates on the same cause and effect principles as any other mechanical processes would. Like how would that even work otherwise? What did you think your brain was for, just to give you headaches and strokes?

>implying determinism wouldn't hold true even if the soul existed
fucking brainlet

>
>There is more than one interpretation of quantum mechanics, you know? Plus, the human brain is totally deterministic for all itnents and purposes
>
>The idea of choices being predetermined and the future written can be deppressing.

In my opinion this is kind of comfy.

I didn't imply anything about souls at all, I didn't even use the word "soul." I don't know who you think you're arguing with but it's obviously not me.

>I didn't imply anything about souls at all
well, not explicitly, sure, but still

I genuinely don't understand what point you're driving at here.
All I asked was how else could we possibly work as physical entities except through cause and effect relationships. I didn't make any assumptions about what the answer to this question was, hence why I asked it instead of asserting some answer of my own to it. I really don't know what answer anyone could give to this question, that's why I asked in the first place.

>The idea of choices being predetermined and the future written can be deppressing.

What's the alternative, you just do shit randomly?

The whole "ohmigod i don't have any free will' thing is just a linguistic brain fart.

The requirement for "free will" is that you would choose two or more courses of action, presented with the same situation. This would amount to you not having a coherent self at any point in time. That's not good right?

>All I asked was how else could we possibly work as physical entities except through cause and effect relationships.
The implication here is that you believe that determinism wouldn't apply to non-physical entities unaffected by cause-and-effect relationships (like some sort of eternal unchanging soul), otherwise you wouldn't be talking exclusively about physical entities.

>autism

determinism is philosophical, not scientific you mong

Schrodinger's cat.
/thread

If determinism is true then what's the big deal? Effectively you can't tell the difference anyway.

Relativity fucks me up every time I try to wrap my brainlet around it.
>Higher percentage of light speed requires more energy to accelerate
>Mass increases as you get closer to light speed
>Change reference frame
>Mass changes
Fuck I'm retarded

Maybe you're blurring GR, which also covers accelerating/rotating mass, with SR, which only covers masses moving in straight lines at constant velocities?

you'll love this then
youtu.be/kGsbBw1I0Rg?t=3m30s

I'm talking exclusively about physical entities because that's the only kind of entity there is, except if you count abstract objects as non-physical things, but my take on abstract objects is they're just convenient imaginary reference ideas and don't exist at all in a literal sense.

>determinism
>science

Just admit it. You don't want to reject free will because you won't be able to proudly ego wank and shitpost anymore.

Go back to r/iamverysmart. Only there will that comment be accepted. Discussing determinism from a physical perspective and neglecting QM would be downright moronic.

Actually determinism is totally an issue in science. It is discussed specifically when it comes to quantum mechanics. Whether the universe is or not determministic is a matter of debate and has been for more than a century.

Definitely! but I love it myself. It blows my mind that simultaneity can vary so much.

"scientific" is philosophical, determinism is axiomatic in any scientific pursuit.

It threaten's people core beliefs where everyone is the master of their own destiny. For instance, the very foundation of gym culture is built on the premise of free will. Without that their motivational posters are no more than corny platitudes and accomplishments are just result of cruising on autopilot attracted to the gym like a fine fap and maybe free of an abusive wife expending negative emotions on physical exertion. It seems no more spectacular than people who sit around injecting roids who are mocked for being lazy cheaters. Free will is a romantic notionn protected by people's egos and desire to flaunt their superiority over others on a personal level. Can an author writing a book on dexedrine, a passion he cannot live without and is bombarded by thoughts about his book before bed, without manual effort nor writer's block really be considered doing hard work compared to the guy for whom writing is a slow manual grind forced to stare at an empty page until his brain throws him a bone? I guarantee NEET could be transformed into an efficient one man machine knowing how to prioritize and going from to task without thinking about it, if you replaced his goy pills with professionally crafted regiment of psychedelic tryptamine therapy consumed powdered in a lemon tea.

It's irrational to admit brain activity causing things like tardive dyskinesia, personality shift from a frontal parietal stroke or inability to speak with a damaged broca's area and deriving free will from that. The splitting of the corpus collosum in seizure patient effectively puts an end to this debate.

In the end free will is an illusion perpetuated the human ego

I wasn't too stoked about the dismissive attitude of the scientific community and their nonchalant belief in eternal oblivion at death. However, after years of pharmacological research into psychedelic compounds and trying DMT for myself I have not been able to explain that experience away using reason.
It was identical to many experience report scoured over. Unlike a dream, there was no conceptual reference point or memory that could explain that world or the particular entities I came across assisting me in walking across a threshold where the ego dissolved. I've experienced hallucinations before and that was no hallucination but vivid uncharted territory. The brain performs impressively when more interconnected by mushrooms and reduced thalamic activity in addition to a moderate dose of adderall. Functions like a hyperspace super computer but dmt can best be described as a higher level of consciousness. That experience was a relief and I realized that scientists these days are mostly rigid reductionist materialists that don't provide any satisfactory answers of their own and just settle for a bleak outlook on reality

>he doesn't understand that free will and causality aren't necessarily incompatible
>he doesn't understand that phenomena are deterministic, but that these phenomena are merely representations in our mind, and that things can exist outside of these phenomena without interfering with causality

>compatibility
Stop being a pussy and pick a side.

>I choose both
fight me

Hey user

Psychedelics are hated a lot on Veeky Forums but don't let anyone troll you. There's clearly something serious going on there, it's not just some trivial thing.

Like TMK said, why DMT isn't plastered on the front of every newspaper I have no idea.

There was an article recently I read with a man having an NDE and then a few decades later tried DMT only to revisit the same place with same entity. It's definitely an exciting silver lining in this crazy world.

So that's a "no", then. Thanks.

Immanuel Kant and the theory of evolution and it's implications on human senses and mental capacity really tickled my amygdala.

>Discussing determinism from a physical perspective and neglecting QM would be downright moronic.
You want to shoehorn quantum flapdoodle into the thread because you have no formal education on the topic and don't understand quantum scale phenomena have no relevance to the human brain or how even if you could establish that human biology was probabilistic it would still not magically grant you free will.

Seems like every fucking thing is a delemna fucking quantum mechanics fucking determinism fucking aliens just another dick to suck