Lets finally settle this

I don't get why people say CS is m e m e s.
Can you guys name any classes that are meme-ish? Most of my classes can easily be taught to an engineering student in computer, software or electrical. Not only does it have very theoretical and interesting courses, it's very much applied in industry, more than any other major that doesn't control its supply like medicine. Sounds like the dream major no?

You guys are so butthurt over this, you have to create memes to comfort yourself.

Embrace the CS meme and just live your life dude. You engineers are gonna end up coding enterprise Java with pajeets, just accept it.

CE is the academic major that studies computers using math, physics, and EE. CS is for people too weak to pass advanced math or physics courses. Compare:

>>CS
>1st year
Bullshit java/OO coding class
Bullshit data structures class
Piss easy calculus classes
Piss easy matrix algebra class
[If you're lucky] physics I&II for non-science majors

>2nd year
Watered down "computer architecture" class
Pompous software engineering class
Pathetic discrete "math" class
Watered down "probability" class
Crash course on formal languages and automata

>3rd year
Pathetic algorithms course
Watered down computability and complexity theory course
Laughable networks course
Laughable database course
Crash course on various programing languages

>4th year
Laughable computer security course
[If you're lucky] an Operating Systems class
[If you're lucky] a Compilers class
Horseshit AI with trivial machine learning
5-10 student team Capstone with one dude doing all the work
and all the bullshit easy electives you want

>>CE/ECE/EE
>1st year
C++/C Coding class
C++/C Data Structures and Algorithm
Easy vector calculus
Piss easy matrix algebra class
Ordinary Differential Equations
Physics I&II
Chem I&II

>2nd year
PDEs, Complex Variables, or Advanced Engineering Mathematics [which is half of each]
Probability and Random Processes
Numerical Analysis
Signal and System Analysis
Circuits
Physics III
Digital Logic
An actual Computer Architecture class

>3rd year
Electronics I&II
Communication Systems
Digital Signal Processing
[if CE or ECE] Discrete Math with Coding and Information Theory
[if EE or ECE] Control Theory
[if EE] Electromagnetics
[if CE] Operation Systems
[if CE] Digital System Design
[if CE] Embedded Systems

>4th year
Capstone where everyone actually does shit
[if you're unlucky] Ethics
Electives [for CE]:
Compilers
Computer Vision
Computer Graphics
VLSI Design
Networks
Cryptography
Reverse Engineering
Information Theory
Convex Optimization
Distributed Computing
among others

>Most of my classes can easily be taught to an engineering student
Exactly.
>Not only does it have very theoretical and interesting courses,
Wrong. All the theory courses have been watered down significantly over the years. The fact you and most cs majors find it "very theoretical" reflects poorly on your major makeup.
>it's very much applied in industry,
University should not be in the business of job training. Classes teaching Swing, mySQL, webdev, phonedev, etc shouldn't be in an university setting.
>Sounds like the dream major no
More like a bubble.

Damn, american universities are truly worthless.

so basically, CS program in a shit tier college is way worse than a CE program in a better college, thanks appreciate the insight. AND the CE'S have to take 17 more classes than the CS students despite the fact that CS can actually land people jobs. damn dude that's some nasty inequality going on on your campus maybe you should organize a protest more credits more pay right?

>All the theory courses have been watered down significantly over the years.
you really think an engineering student is gonna take ''algebraic structures'' or ''analysis'' today? i talked to an EE professor, he even told me the same thing happened with electrical engineering where they toned down the maths and physics.

this.

>Wrong. All the theory courses have been watered down significantly over the years. The fact you and most cs majors find it "very theoretical" reflects poorly on your major makeup.
user, you understand that there is basically no standardization between computer science curricula at all, right? The level of rigor in these courses varies wildly across the world. You don't, in fact, have the slightest clue how much meaningful content there is in user's program.

low tier CS program < low tier CE program < high tier CE program < high tier CS program

Yes.
In 20 years programming will be a skill as common as swimming or writing.

You vastly underestimate how dumb the average person is.

>high tier CS program

Post proof they exist or stfu. All the top schools I've looked at are shit.

...

Okay, maybe I overestimated this. But right now in this moment at least half of population is capable of doing programming if they were trained in CS. Also keep in mind Flynn's effect influence on this.

>cs.stanford.edu/degrees/undergrad/Requirements.shtml

You can get a major by taking all meme courses.

>swimming or writing

That's a big gap. I say it will be as common as anyone who know elementary algebra.

>cmu
>shit CS program
Don't be so butthurt that you didn't make the cut for a shitty CS program on your mid-tier uni.

csd.cs.cmu.edu/academics/undergraduate/requirements

Again you can avoid any difficult courses because they are all electives.

...

youtube.com/watch?v=qYodWEKCuGg

Capable of programming something, sure. Capable of not sucking shit at it, not fast Sparky.

Programming is weird because there is actually a decent amount of demand for people who can only do some half-ass coding. The difference between someone who can program and someone who can Program is fucking huge.

This is the source of the totally understandable ( and I'm a CS/Math guy ) contempt on the part of other STEM people for CS. They've met too many fucktards who learned how to throw a couple of for-loops together and do programming-by-the-numbers.

Those people, however, have nothing in common with the good people in CS programs (who almost always double-major in Math or something). It's night and day.

My computer science degree came free with my electrical and computer engineering degree.

not even high-tier, a shitty yuropoor uni's CS program (only listing mandatory, you need 2 electives each semester, electives are only available from math, physics and cs department):
>1st semester
Analysis 1 (Zorich, Tao)
Linear algebra 1 (Strang, Shilov)
Discrete math (Matousek)
Programming 1 (CLRS, King's C book)
Principles of computers (Patterson, Henessy HW/SW, Tannenbaum OS)
Introduction to computer networks (piss-easy)
>2nd semester
Analysis 2 (Zorich, Rudin)
Linear Algebra 2 (Shilov)
Combinatorics and Graphs 1
Programming 2 (CLRS, C#)
Algorithms and data structures 1 (CLRS, TAOCP)
Introduction to UNIX
>3rd semester
Algorithms and data structures 2 (TAOCP, research papers)
Propositional and predicate logic
Probability and statistics (Halmos and some stat memes)
C++/Java/C#
Algebra 1
>4th semester
Optimalization methods
Nonprocedural programming
Automats and grammars
Database systems
Algebra 2
>5th semester
Representation of finite-dimensional algebras (watered-down CS version)
Rings and modules
Formal methods
>6th semester
Homological algebra (watered-down CS version)
Topology and category theory
Bachelor's thesis

CS AI research assistant here, Jobs fun but good thing im double majoring in math later to switch to math research

It is. I'm a biologist who taught himself python and matlab scripting in a year.

To be frank, the only non-meme degrees are the ones in fields that require specific facilities to gain experience. So basically unless you're studying biology, medicine, physics, chemistry etc attending uni is a waste of time

>you will never get european tier undergrad education

>I can't do loops in python dude i know CS haha
Damn... So these are the fags posting about learning CS on the side?

i never said i have the same level of knowledge a cs bsc has on the field. i'm saying it was easy enough for me to learn enough cs so that i don't need an actual person with a cs degree to assist me, and that you can get the same degree of cs a bsc has by studying at home.

let me put it this way

>i can learn your whole degree at the library
>you will never learn how to do patch-clamp recordings and microsurgery

stay salty

>i'm saying it was easy enough for me to learn enough cs so that i don't need an actual person with a cs degree to assist me
Assist you in making for loops?

Yeah I can "learn" the math undergrad program in the library too.

ye i know

assist me by writing scripts for analyzing my data. the only reason cs phds/postdocs get so many co-authorships in papers from other fields is that old PIs are neither good with programming, nor demand their postdocs to know programming. Like I said, I can learn to write scripts in matlab but you'll never learn how to do electrophysiological recordings. My degree trained me to use machinery that i could get access to only by going to said uni. Your degree one can learn in it's entirety from the community library. this is a hard truth you have to deal with

Why do they need to specify that? Are CS programs really that inconsistent?

You tell me

>there are CS programs without even differential calc
wtf is wrong with americans

>tfw mine doesn't even include linear algebra
Just calc i, ii, and discrete probability.

I'd definitely go this route if I wasn't already 25 with two bachelor's but 41 credits in a BA in CS is my quickest route to employment. STEM high school fags take note

Hey wie gehts ?

english version
pls r8 or h8

>salaries give a your field its worth

your brain on neoliberalism. check how much strippers in Las Vegas make, they must be top tier scientists

This doens't look at all like eurobros say their CS programs are

are you kidding me? i'd be a stripper in las vegas in a heartbeat if i was a woman hot enough to be there. not having to worry about money for the rest of your life sounds pretty damn sweet.

>CSfags have trannie and whore feeling
color me surprised.

The lack of mathematical rigour in American CS programs (which are often just software engineering programs) are why CS degrees bear the brunt of Veeky Forums memes. We should really adopt the European approach to informatics. Dikjstra wrote on this difference between Europeans and Americans way back in the '80s:
cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/transcriptions/EWD06xx/EWD611.html

>he thinks the fulfillment and productivity one feels by being in the tiny % of humanity that actually works towards advancing humankind by developing our scientific knowledge is remotely comparable to any other profession

>he thinks having excess income to buy stupid shit he doesn't need will fulfill him as a person

you're a moron user. money is of course a requirement for a happy life, but you only need to earn enough so you can afford the basic comforts, something a researcher salary in a 1st world country will most likely cover. if you think being a millionaire will compensate for being useless to society and can replace that deep satisfaction and fulfillment, you should take a look at the celebrities the neoliberal establishment brandishes at you as "life goals" and count how many of them died in a pool of their own vomit with 15 different drugs in their system.

>Lettuce finally settle this.
>Do you know how2meme?
Well do ya, Punk?

Can you expand on why the EE code sucks? I cs theres two pedagogical camps: bottom up and top down, though ive never heard an argument like the one you propose (experienced based)

This sounds like it was taken from a school without very good programs in either field. My school has CS and CE take the same data structures and theory/algorithms courses, which are all pretty rigorous. Then CS and CE can literally do the exact same things if they like; CS could do all their electives in systems or CE could do all their electives in higher-level applications if they so choose. Both have to do the whole physics and calc sequence too, only difference being CE takes intro diffEQ and a couple EE courses.

Nice strawman tho

I'm a compE and I can confirm that EE code usually sucks. Then again almost everyone's code usually sucks

Surely you're meming, no standard cirriculum includes Tao, Zorich and Shilov in the first semester.

And TAOCP before Intro to Unix? Lol nice try LARPer.

Lol true, i guess you cant really assess the effects of the pedagogy in that case.

>Programming 1 (CLRS, King's C book)
>Programming 2 (CLRS, C#)
>C++/Java/C#

What kind of retarded school would do this? Good school start and end with C++.

lmao school

>Startet mit OO
>5. Semester Betriebssysteme
>Keine Analysis oder Lineare Algebra sondern nur generische Mathematik für x

Ziemlich garbage desu

Analysis ist mathe 2
lineare algebra ist mathe 1

Analysis 1
>Literature
T. Tao, Analysis I, Hindustan Book Agency, 2006.

T. Tao, Analysis II, Hindustan Book Agency, 2006.

V. A. Zorich, Mathematical Analysis I, Universitext, Springer, 2004.

V. A. Zorich, Mathematical Analysis II, Universitext, Springer, 2004.
>Syllabus
1. Basic notions
a) Sets, relations, mappings
b) Axiomatics of real numbers, infimum and supremum

2. Limits of sequences
a) Limits and arithmetic operations, limits and inequalities, extension of reals
b) Limits of monotone sequences, Cantor nested interval theorem, Bolzano-Cauchy condition
c) Borel covering theorem. Cluster points of a sequence, lim sup

3. Series of real numbers
a) Convergent series, absolutely convergent series
b) Cauchy's root and ratio tests, Leibniz's test.

4. Limits and continuity of functions
a) Theorems on limits, Heine's approach to limits of functions. Bolzano-Cauchy condition for the convergence of functions
b) Limits and continuity, limit of a composition of functions, continuity of the inverse function
c) Properties of continuous functions on a closed interval. Intermediate value property, extrems, uniform continuity

5. Elementary transcendental functions
a) Polynomials, rational functions, n-th root
b) Exponential function, logarithm, power function
c) Trigonometric and hyperbolic functions, cyclometric functions

6. Derivative of function
a) Definition, derivative as a function, applications
b) Derivatives and arithmetic operations, derivative of composed and inverse function (chain rule)
c) Higher derivatives, Leibniz's formula

7. Properties of functions
a) Theorems of Rolle, Lagrange and Cauchy (mean value theorems)
b) Relation between derivative and monotonicity (convexity).
c) Extreme values, points of inflection, asymptots

Algorithms and data structures 1
>Literature
Cormen, Leiserson, Rivest, Stein : Introduction to algorithms (2nd Edition), Mc Graw Hill 2001

Knuth, D.: The Art of Computer programming, Vol.1,2,3. Addison Wesley, 1968

>Syllabus
Asymptotic notation.
Tree structures, binary search trees, AVL trees, Red-black trees.
Hashing, solving of collisions, analysis of average case.
Sorting. Analysis of average case for quicksort, randomization. Lower bound for sorting (decision trees), linear-time sorting based on indexing by keys.
Graph algorithms, depth-first search, breadth-first search, strongly connected components, transitive closure, topological sorting.
Extreme paths in graphs. Method of critical path - PERT. Dijkstra alg., Bellman-Ford alg. (searching of negative cycles), Floyd-Warshall alg. for all paths.
Minimal spanning tree. Kruskal alg., Prim-Jarnik alg.
Method Divide and conquer. General schema, solving of recurrent equations. Master theorem. Applications: binary searching, mergesort, Strassen alg.
Eucleid alg., LUP decomposition.
Algorithms Aho-Corasick, Knuth-Morris-Pratt, Rabin-Karp
Augmenting path algorithms (Ford-Fulkerson),
Dinic's and Goldberg's algorithm
Finding maximum flow of minimum cost and bipartite matchings
Discrete Fourier transform, its motivation and applications
FFT algorithm (Fast Fourier Transform) and its implementation as "butterfly" circuits
Related transforms (DCT -- JPEG compression)
Sorting networks (merge-sort or bitonic sort)
Addition of binary numbers -- carry look-ahead
Karatsuba-Ofman algorithm for multiplication
Convex hull
Voronoi diagram and Delaunay triangulation (Fortune's algorithm)
Polynomial transformations and reductions between decision problems
Non-deterministic algorithms, classes P and NP
NP-completeness
Examples of approximation algorithms: e.g., knapsack, bin packing, scheduling on parallel machines, including upper bounds of approximation errors

Monte Carlo algorithms (Rabin-Miller primality test)
Public key cryptography (RSA cryptosystem)
DES and similar cryptographic algorithms and protocols
Dynamic programming

So not memeing, my burger friendo.
We do C, then OOP with C#, then we choose C++/Java/C#. I don't see what's wrong with this, C# is used in europe quite heavily, as is Java and C++.
By the time you're doing your Bachelor's thesis, you know one language well and ignoring electives where you can pick some other language, you can also write a bit of C, C#, OCaml and Coq.
Apart from the listed courses (Programming, C++/Java/C#), you can do assignments in any language of your choice, without the use of standard library (except for networking classes and graphics i think).

And as for linear algebra 1
>Literature
Linear Algebra - Georgi E. Shilov; Dover Publications
>Syllabus
fields, characteristic of a field,
systems of linear equations, Gauss elimination, parametric form of the solution set
elements of matrix operations, matrix as a linear mapping, group of regular matrices
abstract vector spaces, linear independence, linear span, basis, dimension, rank of a matrix, fundamental subspaces of a matrix
linear mapping, matrix of a linear mapping, change of basis, space of linear mappings,
determinant, geometric meaning, Vandermond matrix
standard aand abstract scalar product, orthogonal basis, Gram-Schmidt orthogonalization,
ortogonal and unitary mappings and matrices, rotations (especially in 3D), group properties,
eigenvectors, eigenvalues, diagonalizable operators, Jordan canonic form,
unitary and orthogonal diagonalization, spectral theorems, singular value decomposition,
bilinear and quadratic forms, their matrix, orthogonalization, inertia theorem,
affine spaces, affine and metric classification of quadratic forms

Another brainlet that didn't read TAOCP, sees Knuth and thinks "muh unix".
TAOCP is self-contained, you don't need any knowledge outside of highschool math to read it. Why would one need to know UNIX before reading it?

The sad things is that you can expect worse code from other majors

Can't get worse than the bottom.

cs is an ez mode degree, it cannot be stressed enough

doubled in math and cs, got ny msc in math

when it comes to cs never been to a single lecture, literally. all it took to pass the exams was skimming through the lecture notes a day or two ahead (projects on the other hand take 1-2 weeks of work to finish, but still it's just about grind and putting in the hours, no thinking involved). and it's not just passing exams, a few times i aced this shit, having the best score out of like 200 students or so (algos, optimization, neural networks)

math at the same time, endless sleepless nights, all the effort you can imagine, and in the end i finished somewhere in the bottom 20% of the graduates

cs is nice, if you want a paper guaranteeing you a job, and tons of free time to push your side-projects. but if you're looking for pains and gains, self growth etc it's a time wasted

who gives a fuck? i know /sci is basically a board for a bunch of faggots to try and find the most autistic reasons possible to feel better than other people, but you're seriously pushing into new realms of pointless auto-fellatio with this shit

>C++
>good

fucking savagery. C++ is literal shit

sounds like you're stupid and you're school has a shitty cs program

Math degree is a meme because anyone can use a calculator

Modern C++ is good, great even. Problem is the clusterfuck of standards. Our uni teaches C++11, companies use mostly C++11, but there are some that mix C++98 up to C++17 into an abhorrent mess of a codebase. If you're extra (un)lucky, you'll work for a company that adds a bit of ANSI C partially migrated to C99 for a good measure (i'm looking at you, IBM).

Aber wird wohl eher Analysis für Ingenieure ohne Beweisführung sein da Wirtschaftsinformatiker auch dabei sind. Wenn nicht dann is es ganz okay auch wenn es mir sehr unrealistisch erscheint rigorosen Compilerbau im 3. Semester zu machen nur mit ein bisschen Automatentheorie davor. Und keine Datenbanken ?

Everything that isn't Lisp or a Lisp-derivative is shit.

OCaml, Haskell, Idris, Erlang. None of those is Lisp-derivative, none of those is shit from theoretical perspective.
From practical perspective, modern C++ beats just about everything, including your favorite toy language.

Since you quoted all functional languages, I'll let it slide. They'll survive the culling.

The fact that C++ is more practical than these languages is our great failure. It's a failure of pedagogy and of practice on the part of programmers. One day there will be a reckoning.

Idris, Ocaml, and Haskell were heavily inspired by ML, which the creators wanted to basically be Lisp with types; they're close enough.

There are languages that are good in theory despite not being functional, like smalltalk. I'm more alarmed by software "engineers" still not using engineering procedures when developing software, rather than them not using a specific paradigm. The current sorry state of software is caused more by developers not giving a shit about formal verification.
You're taking quite a leap there with authors of ML wanting it to be "lisp with types", do read their original papers. ML was intended as practical implementation of [math]PP\lambda[/math]-calculus, it didn't share any goals of lisp, it was meant for writing and verifying formal specifications. The "lisp with types" doesn't come from intention of its authors, it comes from both lisp and ML being rooted in [math]\lambda[/math]-calculus.
You could as well call all functional languages derivatives of lisp since their ancestors all most come from [math]\lambda[/math]-calculus.

No, I have not read it. Just assumed it was implemented in Unix, kill me.

Am reading concrete maths tho so lighten up on me senpai, im just not there yet

what a bunch of wankery. yall insecure as fuck

What school did you go to? US?

What school and why only 6 semesters? That's only 3 years

that's undergrad equivalent on most european unis (3 years), our undergrad is 4 years, but you can chose to do your thesis earlier and suggested is 3rd year. 4th year is mostly electives
MIPT

also i go to the theoretical physics program, these are just copy-pasted and translated from the system for CS undergrads so i can't comment on the difficulty, except for some math classes (shared by all) and the few classes i took as electives (intro to networks, unix networking, security of information systems)

Not that guy, but it's this school: mff.cuni.cz/to.en/

How do you enjoy matfyz so far? Which year? 2nd year of bachelor's here.

That's cool they use such good books, I see here:
is.cuni.cz/studium/eng/predmety/index.php?do=predmet&kod=NMAI054

They list Apostol, Tao and Rudin for Analysis. Now there's no way they're requiring a student to go through all of those in one semester, right?

The recommended books usually overlap the the syllabus. Almost every teacher has their own script, basically the notes from each lecture containing the whole syllabus. The scripts are usually derived from the recommended books, though.
The analysis course is notoriously rigid. You're expected to know the definition of many theorems and their proofs. The exam usually consists of some equations and a theorem or two to prove.

this: but also, this: if you have a good CS program and you're interested beyond MUH REACTJS, they'll teach you all the necessary math and theory, plus a great overview of fairly recent technology in a few areas. mine are embedded systems, high performance and distributed systems (capability and capacity computing), machine learning (which they drill into everyone right now) and a bit of software engineering (which they have also drilled into everyone at my uni). all statements only true if pursuing a MSc.

however, programming you have to learn on your own. sure, there are a couple beginners' courses, a mandatory project and a couple of non-mandatory ones, but the courses where they teach you a programming language on the level of current best practices - one that's actually used in the world outside university, so Haskell and the like don't count - are few and far between and usually limited to a small number of people who have to apply, showing they already have a level beyond what they're peers have. those courses tend to be good, but limited by what the curriculum allows, so even those are useless if you don't start doing projects in that language on the side, on your own.

moreover, nobody ever tells you that in order to have a chance against 10euro pajeets you have to specialize in a few languages at some point during your studies, ideally not more than two, three if you're really awesome, and start building a github profile. nobody in uni ever tells you that. thus, many CS students walk out the doors of university straight through the doors of accenture or some shitty startup where nobody knows how to code either. or they become sysadmins because that's the job they were able to score during their studies.

so yeah, if you just study CS and you're otherwise uninterested or a brainlet, you're still useless. unlike the hard sciences, where they simply kick you out of the program.

>start building a github profile

How should I do that? Is it a good idea to put solutions for my school assignments there, if they're not trivial? For example, I had to implement a Huffman tree and compress/decompress a file using it. Would it be a good idea to post it on my github? In general, what stuff should I have on there?

3rd univ in muh country

14 applications per place

Hello Fellow CS student from Darmstadt.
Welches Semester tho?

You basically just listed all of the same classes butt called the CS ones piss easy. Really gets that noggin joggin

>Do a meme 3 year computer degree focusing on actual work rather than math
>Now 2 years into it i just signed a contract for a cancer research firm which quadrupled in value last year
>Only computer guy
>Will be making twice in my starting position compared to what most engineering students gets after 5 years

As it turns out being able to fake it til you make it is useful. Memed through a machine learning job with 0 prior experience this summer due to good people skills and actually knowing how to do proper researsh beyond stack overflow (something both interviewers mentioned often wasa problem with engineers).

Looks like smooth sailing from here, people skills is 99% of what makes you money.

It's so funny see people calling CS a meme degree since every problem in any non shit-tier degree area involves computing something, hence, every problem can be solved (and probably will be) by a CS guys. I'm just waiting for brainlets engineers get replaced by a massive Convoluted Neural Network running over millions of CFD simulations in order to design the best machinery that any brainlet engineer could fathom.