> Almost nobody realizes that Jesus is the Son of Man, and they have no clue how he is able to perform all those miracles > Even when Peter is right on him being the messiah, he misunderstands what it entails > Jesus's apostles fall asleep while he's praying that he doesn't have to suffer > He gets betrayed by one of his own apostles > His followers abandon him when the Pharisees take hold of him > At the cross, Jesus himself asks God why He has forsaken him > It's a Roman who declares that he was the messiah, not one of Jesus's followers > The book ends with three women emphatically NOT spreading the gospel out of fear
Is the Gospel of Mark a satire? Why is it so negative about Jesus's early followers?
To drive home an important point: Even in Galilee 2000 years ago, it was damn hard to find good staff.
James Barnes
jewish Anti-Semitism
Benjamin Green
Also >no these healing miracles are not metaphorical, he is spitting in people's eyes, putting fingers in their ears and other weird witchcraft shit.
Jose Hall
rene girard directly addresses this
Christ is the scapegoat, Christianity reveals the nature of desire, violence and culture, hidden since the foundations of the world
William Hall
Also, the author was clueless about the geography of the area.
When Jesus sends the demons into the herd of pigs that run off a cliff into the sea of Galilee, it takes place in "the country of the Gerasenes". The problem is that Gerasa was about 20 miles from the Sea of Galilee. The author probably meant Gennesaret which was a lot closer.
Benjamin Flores
...
Samuel Cox
Christians are pretty big on miracles, bro.
Sebastian Taylor
Bump.
Gavin Rodriguez
>believe what you want and ignore everything else >iseriouslyhopeyouarentthatguythatevenweatthecovenantlaughat
Ethan Ortiz
Reminder that those who believe John was written first are a not-insubstantial minority. John at the very least gets a lot of details right.
Brandon Roberts
>implying he isnt referring to a third party regarding the Son of Man >Implying the Son of Man wont herald the Kingdom of God
btw, great book to the left.
Alexander Harris
>muh contrarianism
The people who cherry picked Daniel and Isaiah to justify the rapture arent insubstantial either, but they are equally wrong.
The really compelling stuff are the suggestions regarding the Letter of James and Proto-Thomas being contemporary to Paul.
Did you take into account the possibility that the area wasn't as dry and the sea was a lot bigger and perhaps joined with the lake 2000 years ago?
Nolan Turner
which SMT game is this?
Robert Miller
That's also an interesting idea. He's only ever called the Son of God or the messiah, but never the Son of Man. Every time Jesus talks about the Son of Man, it's in the third person. What could that entail?
There were other people who were called "Son of God", mostly kings. The title was less popular among Jews, I think, but not instantly blasphemous. It mostly meant someone was powerful and could deliver his people out of oppression. The Son of Man was what we usually mean by the Son of God.
Could it be that Mark thought Jesus was the messiah, belief in whom would bring salvation, but /not/ the Son of Man who would descend from heaven to defeat the enemies during some holy war? Did he perhaps draw a distinction between those two?
Dylan Evans
>Is the Gospel of Mark a satire? You have brain damage after being immersed into this shitty culture of "omg was he being ironic? Was it a satirical commentary on modern condition?" that third-rate colleges and Internet discussion forums promulgate.
Xavier Cooper
Are they a not insubstantial minority of qualified bible scholars though?
Cooper Brooks
I haven't heard that, but if it did it still wouldn't have stretched 20 miles to the south east.
A simple error is the more plausible explanation.
Bentley Torres
It's called a joke
Ethan Baker
I noticed the same dumbnesses, OP.
honestly the whole bungledness of this gospel is what etches it into my mind as almost definitely the first, most accurate one. some of the details are so real, like when they're on the mountain and the prophets appear and one of the apostles is so flustered he starts to set up a tent for them lol
Jose Sanders
Perhaps I should expand. I don't doubt that Mark was a Christian writing to a Christian community. But it seems like he's ridiculing the earliest of Jesus's disciples.
The definition of satire, according to Wikipedia: > Satire is a genre of literature, and sometimes graphic and performing arts, in which vices, follies, abuses, and shortcomings are held up to ridicule, ideally with the intent of shaming individuals, corporations, government, or society itself into improvement.
My speculation is not that Mark was satirizing the entire Christian community (I'd be quite amazed if they taught that in colleges), but rather that he was satirizing the first disciples, making their lives examples of how not to be a good Christian. It seems very striking, but that's the only thing I can make of it.
Landon Brown
The whole story in the Old Testament is the exact same thing that you are describing with the disciples. It is a fundamental thing in Christianity that nobody anywhere is now or has ever been a good Christian except Jesus himself.
Noah Foster
Historical criticism makes you a heretic. I think it is pretty clear that Jesus did not see himself as divine, and that mark thought that as The Baptist prepared the way for Jesus, Jesus saw himself as preparing the way for the son of man who would bring about the kingdom of heaven on earth, which would foresee the apocalypse and the coming of the kingdom of heaven in heaven
Evan Foster
>I don't doubt that Mark was a Christian writing to a Christian community You mean a Jesus Jew after the destruction of the temple in Judea or Syria?
There is no evidence of Paul/John's Christ Cult in mark
Julian Baker
I'm not sure if it's quite the same in the Tanakh. That collection displays severe erring of Jewish people, and comedy, but those two elements are never connected. The Gospel of Mark, on the other hand, has the erring itself _as_ comedy, thus ridiculing the characters and making it a satire.
I call all followers of Jesus Christians. Paul and John don't have a monopoly on that term.
I'm not so sure if Mark was a Jew, though. Mark 7:3 quotes:
> For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they thoroughly wash their hands, thus observing the tradition of the elders.
Since he had to give this explanation, it seems quite clear that at least his audience wasn't Jewish. I'm not sure what that says of the likelihood of himself being Jewish.
Jack Morris
I'd be flustered too. I also like that detail.
Dylan Fisher
epic simply epic
Hudson Jones
Jesus' own words:
"Truly I tell you, even before Abraham was, I am."
In Exodus, Moses asks God his name as he appears to him at the burning bush. He says in response, "I am that I am." and tells him to say "I am" has sent him.
Jesus was making a claim to divinity when he said what he said, which is why his jewish hearers tried to stone him afterwards. (John 8:58-end)
Jesus also says, "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
He saw himself as divine, claimed to be, and his apostles corroborated his claim and saw his resurrection as proof of it.
Alexander James
"Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp."
This happens frequently throughout the NT. Jesu must have been a slippery or agile kind of guy.
Kayden Adams
>At the cross, Jesus himself asks God why He has forsaken him
He was quoting Scripture.
Colton Morales
quoting Shakespeare?
Joseph Cruz
Thanks, that dude had no idea what he was talking about.
Brayden Morris
No, Psalm 22, AKA the Psalm of the Cross. It predicts a whole bunch of different details about Christs' crucifixion.
Jackson Jenkins
Could you elaborate pls? It might help the both of us.
Ian Campbell
Is Jesus alive today and if so how do you think he is doing in likeliness failing to prove himself the Messiah as a white male hikki?
Dominic Kelly
Go read it and then read the accounts of the cross. Really fascinating stuff.
"1 My God, my God, why have you forsaken me? Why are you so far from saving me, so far from my cries of anguish? 2 My God, I cry out by day, but you do not answer, by night, but I find no rest."
"7 All who see me mock me; they hurl insults, shaking their heads. 8 “He trusts in the Lord,” they say, “let the Lord rescue him. Let him deliver him, since he delights in him.”"
They slapped Jesus up and told him to prophesy about who had done it. When he was on the cross they laughed and mocked him saying "If this is really the Son of God why doesn't God help him?"
"15 My mouth[d] is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. 16 Dogs surround me, a pack of villains encircles me; they pierce[e] my hands and my feet. 17 All my bones are on display; people stare and gloat over me. 18 They divide my clothes among them and cast lots for my garment."
He said he was thirsty and so they gave him sour wine to drink. The piercing of the hands and feet part is pretty obvious, as is the dividing of his garments.
Benjamin Clark
What?
Christopher King
If Jesus is alive today who is he and how would he be doing? Would he not in likeness be a hikki?
Caleb White
1 answer
Evan Sullivan
Thanks. Impacting stuff there. I know the cross accounts well and the likeness here is eerie. Man, I feel for Jesu here but its apparent as divine plan. Even the sour wine given him is a sign, as his first divine act was to turn water into wine, and bring the best wine after the bad wine had been drunk. The final act of his ministering was to drink the sour wine.
I wonder how the Pharisees did not notice the similarities as they were carrying out the act. Are they, as Judas, duly punished for fulfilling prophecy? The only true answer is in the Lords message of forgiveness.
Joseph Thompson
The pharisees were not only the religious but also the political elite of their day. They were pretty much the only ones that Jesus had a problem with. Everyone else got miracles and exhortation and teachings while the pharisees just got punked again and again. I think that even though they knew the texts better than anybody else they were too blinded by their greed for power to recognize who they were dealing with. Jesus represented a huge threat to their broken way of doing things and nothing else.
Jonathan Gomez
When he dines with the Pharisees and he doesn't wash his hands before eating, they are astonished. In the same way is the Lord astonished at how they dine on His food without being clean, because inside they are filled with greed and wickedness.
Ian Green
>"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30) >(John 10:30) >John
Get that second century revisionist shit out of there.
Josiah Foster
Religionfags pls go.
Thomas Young
Psalm 82
>God has taken his place in the divine council; >in the midst of the gods he holds judgement wtf im a polytheist now
Levi Davis
Actually they weren't, the Sadducees were more influential in terms of temple politics.
Jaxon Cook
There was an early Christian belief that he was a shapeshifter actually
Brandon White
Where does Girard talk about this? I'm halfway through Deceit, desire and the novel and would like to get more into his works
Zachary Cook
Did you just assume Jesus' gender and race?
Easton Ortiz
Every time I hear someone respond to a religious argument with "No, Jesus himself said x (John y:z) I laugh. John and Paul were making shit up as they went, it is basically fan fiction
Joseph Sanchez
So enlightened..
Jace Cook
>The piercing of the hands and feet part is pretty obvious Have you not looked up the translation? IIRC that's a pretty tenuous translation of the psalm's ambiguous wording, specifically to align it with the Jesus story.
Camden Walker
>fan fiction If anything the change from mark to John shows a shift in understanding, Mark isn't great for Christology and that isn't really even a focus.
Thomas Jones
Irrelevant, the time gap from 33-5 to 90-95 in a pre-literate society makes John important only in the respect of Christian perception in his time, and how it changed from James/Mark/Thomas UNLESS we can find an earlier source he used
Elaine Pagels herself has John as a rebuttal and reaction against the Gnostic tradition. Paul is harder since he was early, but he was also in conflict with the Jesus People's of Jerusalem and James himself, and never knew Jesus.