Are you ready to read the BOTY?

you can't really fully understand the essence of Veeky Forums, or any internet culture for that matter, with an outsiders point of view.

Some things are really subtle and it takes years to notice some of the underlying tones, reasons and common ground, like existentialism and lack of father figures in the modern day is the reason for the alt right. You don't notice that if you're just watching from afar, then it's just all a bunch of internet neo-nazis to you.

Books/articles like this always paint out 4channers and other angry internet groups like "that weird guy in class that got bullied". Most of us are people you meet in day-to-day-life without reflecting about at all

I remember reading on Veeky Forums that she has been browsing the site for a long time, although I can't find a source.

>Angela Nagle is a cultural critic...

>horrid
why? I felt it was really on point

Doesn't matter, she's a journalist trying to drag the lake of anonymous imageboard culture. She is a foreign element.

imageboard's don't even understand themselves, they're fickle and contrarian, they hold no strong views because they're just a reaction to whatever the dominant ideology of society is.

There's nothing to understand about imageboard culture, there is no proper documentation of what happens here outside of the threads themselves and whatever interadmin communications come to light. Maybe someday the FBI or CIA will declassify their files on the chans, but until then there won't be any way to write a proper historical or sociological analysis of these communities.

Angela lurks here i am sure, i think her work is far more considered than most idiots who write of their disgusted and confused reactions to imageboard culture but there is still something critically lacking in her insights. Fellow Irish here who has been here since 05. Email me at [email protected] angela if you want insights from a non rabid Pol user.

>lack of father figure
Nah, it's not that.
Look at alt-right. It's either teens or manchildren. Youth. Youth is desperate to find a cause, a thing bigger than themselves that they can be a part of.
It's the essence of teenage mindset. Belonging. Mix it with the Veeky Forums characteristic of being contrarian and you get alt-right.
Most of them don't even care about politics, their understanding of it revolves around "btfo feminists" and "deus vult praise kek".
It's no surprise that actual, rational right-wingers have long since disowned the label.

>online culture wars from Veeky Forums and tumblr to trump and the alt-right

That is a very confusing way to phrase it. What are they trying to say here?

>a non rabid Pol user
So you're from TRS and you perceive yourself as the authentic vanguard of right-wing Internet culture even though you don't get that 99% of /pol/ posts are ironic/troll posts?

a few weeks after she wrote her piece there was a shitstorm on "her side" of twitter over a guy called nick mullen who had told a bunch of ironically racist/sexist jokes that he got called out on it. people defended him because he was friends with the right people and it snowballed into a big needless piece of drama

when you come from a climate like that, it's easy to assume groups are going to tear eachother apart over minor ideological differences. in reality the right are capable of working with high levels of cognitive dissonance which is why they've achieved so much over the last few years

when she went on chapo the example she used as evidence of fracturing was milo being fired for his pedo comments but anyone could see that this was an organised media hitjob and most people still support milo, she's clutching at straws

They are not contrarian and neither is Veeky Forums
4chan is just very pro-freedom and mistrustful of any sorts of vague power structures, ironically I think the attraction of fascism is the clairty it represents compared to other contemporary politics.
Veeky Forums is anti-democracy but pro liberty if that makes sense

Pretty much all writing about the internet fundamentally misunderstands the internet.

Fascism is popular on Veeky Forums because it's edgy and because it's funny. I don't save Merchant memes because I want to throw my Jewish friends and acquaintances into concentration camps, I save them because they're funny and sometimes hit on a bit of truth.
Meanwhile, there are genuine Far Right Internet groups who try to get people to join them by posting on /pol/. These people don't 'get' the joke at all, they don't get that they're as much the butt of it as the Merchant is. They think that there is a genuine camaraderie of like-minded White Men on /pol/.
The only /pol/ browser I know other than myself is a half-Asian Social Democrat.

The alt right is a degeneration of so many genuine attempts to understand and mo e away from dogmatic left/right dichotomy. Angela writes of the alt rights roots and influence from the European New Right but it has taken a complete departure from this school a long time ago, Eugene montsalvat wrote of this over a year ago and was ostracised by the self aggrandisers like Spencer for it. Whatever attempts were made in the alt rights nascent stage has since been derailed by crude bigotry and Nazi worship

so you are saying that Veeky Forums is an union of egoists? sweet

I would agree with that. I think to truly grasp what Veeky Forums is about, you have to lurk/post regularly for months if not years. No one can just look at it one day and so "huh. so this is Veeky Forums"

For instance, when people on here call each other faggots, someone who's naive about the sight might assume we all horribly hate each other, when "faggot" has become almost endearing

You're just speaking as an outsider yourself, being a left winger it's hard to understand their motivations.
I'll agree that these people are mostly pretty brain dead but the rabble always are. I believe ultimately this is a quest for "truth" and clarity in society. People perceive that they are being lied to, and see that society is nothing but a massive sham, yet are forced to play along and see that other people are playing along as well (which they see as insincere)

This new right is a rejection more of tha insincerity and seeking a more valid way to live. Ultimately the biggest issue is capitalist subversion as it subverted the left and old right utterly.

I meant i don't use Pol anymore, there is no value in it now

You're not wrong, but you're also not right. When you think someone's posting alt-right memes ironically, much of the time it's sincere. And sincere alt-right posters think that the ironic memes are sincere. Both of you think that the other one doesn't "get" it, that they're the ones who really knows what's what, and it goes on.

>Fascism is popular on Veeky Forums because it's edgy and because it's funny.
Hi Angela. If this is how your book explains it as well: you're wrong.

Truth follows humour, you wouldn't find it funny if it didn't hit at something you believed in to some degree.
Fascism is aggressive and unbound, this is why it's popular, old left marxists are seen as either old or castrated meaning they are not as attractive.

Regardless of the desire to be "edgy" there is a reason fascist ideas are so powerful, they represent objectivity and truth in a world that is incredibly unclear and vague. The truth of that truth is irrelevant as man merely seeks to create his own truth and establish objectivity for himself, which is what the right wants.

>Pol
What the fuck? How new are you? I bet you have been browsing /b/ for not even a year and you think you understand Veeky Forums as an imageboard.

...

I'd claim that lack of father figures and masculine role models is crucial when it comes to alt right psychology.

Alt-right and alt-righters (Sam hyde, Milo etc) have a disdain for women and particularly single mothers. They cling to frail pseudo-masculine traits like being "emotionally poised" and "daring to tell the truth". Even though the alt right is probably the most sensitive movement when it comes to critisism and arguement, a big part of it is saying fuck you to PC culture and safe spaces, because it's masculine to them.

Look at many of the profilic /pol/ /r9k/ altright front figures. They have a view of women as evil, swallow creatures and often a warped relationship with their own mother (Elliot Rodgers, Sam Hyde etc). They make theories about the lack of female success, aka the red pill, and theorize about how to get pussy from these estranged evil creatures.
They're not seldomly obsessed with lifting weights and violence, again, trying to find themselves in what it means to be a man. Many worship Trump as a 'strong masculine leader who doesn't take any shit', who "btfos" women and so on. Those who're not Trump fans are often fans of other masculinic icons like german nazis, god emperor from warhammer or Vikings

It's post-ironic to the point of going full circle. Sam Hyde's scientific homophobia in a hipster bar wasn't sincere, it was done fully aware it was outrageous ly fake information but it was still an attempt to strike out at the audience who is offended by it. I doubt most channels who post Holocaust denial memes sincerely believe it was a hoax but are still antisemitic

This is why I stopped shitposting ironically. At this point though i think it's too late.

Oh, and add to that the entire cuckolding thing, of course. Anyone who's not with them are against them because they let their women have sex with well endowed african men. If that boogeyman strawman doesn't signal lack of confidence in masculinity, i dont know what does

Not a left winger.
As with most groups, the majority will always be brain-dead meme spouters.
Those who seek to retreat from society don't go joining internet movements, especially as childish as these ones.
Like I said, most normal right-wingers already abandoned the term.
But yes, there is truth to what you're saying.

>alt-righters (Sam hyde
Haha what? You have no idea what you're talking about. Please stop speaking of what you have no knowledge of.

>Angela Nagle
Fuck, one letter off from being an anagram.

/pol/ isn't alt-right, though. It predates the Alt Right. It's fallacious to equate the two.
>Truth follows humour
This is vague.
I'm not her lol
>Sam Hyde
Is that woman in those videos really his mother?

Sammie boi's vlog on forgoing finding an interesting attractive mate and settling for a "dumdum" you can turn into your domestic servant opened my eyes

I think it's also a malaise about culture.

There's nothing to get excited about in liberalism/globalism. Your highest value is basically making sure people don't get made fun of for having piss sex or whatever. What's compelling about that, and who would want to fight for it?

>Sam hyde
Sam Hyde is a classic liberal you dumb fuck. And the ''alt-right'' (or whatever you like to call your boogeyman) hate Milo for his blatant homosexuality. It's only a small percentage of Trump voters who actually follow the guy and are mostly just anti-feminism (especially since Milo fucks black guys he doesn't know each saturday and even excused hebephilia).

I think the obsession with associating race with the cuckolding meme is as much propagated by the liberal/ left media as it is by alt righters. The disgust is directed towards the racist element, not the element of humiliation and emasculation of the person, cuckold has of course been a derogatory remark for centuries, i don't think anyone should say it shouldn't be a pathetic situation to be in

I don't read books written by women, unless I'm reading them to my children.

>2017
>Denying that the Alt Right exists when people self-identify as being part of it
Why do people do this?

Yes
On the internet we have nothing but egos

>If people self-identify as something that's what they are

oh, i see

What other woman would ever put up with him?

I hate empowerment of the weak in general and "feminine" virtues

People also self-identify as Anonymous. Doesn't mean Anonymous actually exists. Also: good job ignoring everything else I posted.

>I haven't read Hyde's twitter feed, watched any of his interviews or saw his god-awful attempt of le red pill humor on adult swim
yeah total conservative liberal guys haha

Even irony holds truth
People don't make jokes and play about with this they utterly despise
I'm not a goosestepping skinhead but I'm still fairly right leaning

I'm tired of Sam's flirting with the worst the alt right has to offer but if you think world peace was an attempt at "red pill" you must be utterly consumed by your particular ideology

Sam Hyde is a libertarian. But yes, he has some characteristics of a liberal (for example hating cops).
He's definitely alt-right, even if I'd prefer him not to be. His facebook is a clusterfuck of pepe/trump memes, and it's sad beyond words.

>The Democratic Party doesn't exist, there are just people who self-identify as democrats
>Same for the Republican party
>Same for everything else that people identify as, the USA doesn't exist, there are just a bunch of states that claim to be a part of it
Are you trying to make a point about the nature and function of language, or are you just being retarded?

I agree with this honestly
Not that I hate women or am afraid of intelligence, just that it creates an unstable dynamic, and honestly being with a more "simple" yet sweet girl is so much more fulfilling

I love my gf a lot and I feel bad about saying this, but she can be a little basic, but she tries hard and genuinely cares about everything she does, it's very cute and I feel like she respects me as I do her. I've dated so called "smart" girls before and they've always been selfish and awful relationships

I'm not utterly consumed by any ideology to be fair, I'm from a northern European country without many divides and issues so politics don't interest me much. It's hard to avoid /pol/ people and alt righters when you spend so much time on Veeky Forums as I do, though.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but is Sam Hyde isn't alt right, then who is? I thought his anti-pc, anti-feminism, anti-jew and pro-trump agenda together with shitty /pol/ memes made him the epitome of the movement.

>le red pill humor
Wait you mean his anti-police and anti-establishment skits he did?
>Hyde's twitter feed
You need to understand his post-irony. This man retweeted a tweet by Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump within an hour as a joke. 90% of his Twitter is him being ironic and trying to be funny (whether or not he succeeds is another question).
>his interviews
You mean the Buzzfeed one? Please don't mean the Buzzfeed one.

Just because someone is against political correctness doesn't mean he is a racist anti-semite.

>Sam Hyde is a libertarian. But yes, he has some characteristics of a liberal (for example hating cops).
Yes.
>He's definitely alt-right, even if I'd prefer him not to be. His facebook is a clusterfuck of pepe/trump memes, and it's sad beyond words.
Again he is poking fun at the people. He makes them out as idiots. He even had some stupid ''pizzagate'' tweet pinned at the top for a while even after saying that he (obviously) doesn't believe it holds any truth. It's him being ironic again.

>You're are le retarded xDDD
Please stop posting anytime.

World peace was good and very moderate honestly

I bet she was an aspie

>Just because someone is against political correctness doesn't mean he is a racist anti-semite.
>ignoring the 5+ stand-up routines where he bashes jews and implies the holocaust is a hoax
I bet he's just too post-ironic for me to understand that he's not antisemitic at all, right :^)

Those poor Jews
Remember the 20 million goyim

I can't essentialise him with the 1488ers he often lampooned. World peace had some pieces with very scathing social cultural commentary but i find it hard to characterise "the man who couldn't be what they made him to be" as "red pilled"

>>You're are le retarded xDDD
>Please stop posting anytime.
I was serious, I'm willing to listen to whatever you have to say about the nature and function of language.

Again it's a joke. If it is actually funny depends on the person but it remains a joke.

He also has a joke in that stand-up routine where he says that he didn't know that 9/11 happened. But I guess he was 100% seriously on that one as well.

>tfw you've got the Dachau Blues

You have no idea what you're talking about.

STILL CRYIN BOUT THE BURNIN BACK IN WORLD WAR TWOS

What's TRS?

yeah, those are the ones I meant. Are you saying that's not antisemitic?
I mean at some point, no matter how "ironic" your comedy is, you gotta own up if a common theme in your comedy is claiming the holocaust never happened and the jews being a scourge on society.

politics aside, I loved Sams vertical videos and street interviews. /pol/ ""humor"" and trying to be political ruined him, along with all the beta dicksuckers riding his obese cock whatever shit he spews out

>you can joke about anything you want
>but not the holocaust you stupid goy, that's off limits!

How exactly is a Holocaust joke anti-Semitic if it doesn't involve a caricature of a particular Jew or of Jewish stereotypes in general?
Making jokes about Holocaust denial != Holocaust denial. There is no way to square that circle.

Oh shit, I missed where in my post I implied anything like that. Care to point that out for me, user? Your reading comprehension seems so next level that you're just reading things that aren't there to be read.

>making jokes about the holocaust != constantly bashing the jews without humorous value
keep crying alt-cuck, go be triggered somewhere else

>I mean at some point, no matter how "ironic" your comedy is, you gotta own up if a common theme in your comedy is claiming the holocaust never happened and the jews being a scourge on society.
He just does it because it gets people angry. The holocaust is one of the worst things that happened in the past 100 years and claiming it's funny (or even worse: that it never happened) gets people angry and pissed off. It's the same thing as when he went to some hipster club to claim that homosexuality is bad. He knows it gets people angry and he enjoys that.

>How exactly is a Holocaust joke anti-Semitic if it doesn't involve a caricature of a particular Jew or of Jewish stereotypes in general?
He has some standup show where the joke is that he wants to deny Germany any jews, with the punchline being "oh man they're really gonna miss their blood sucking media temepering parasites, won't they?!"
>several occasions of >muh six gorillions

Jew's don't make up a vastly disproportionate amount at the top of media corporations in America?

The Right Stuff

That's not the point here, friend. I'm claiming that Sam is antisemetic, if there's any truth to critisize jews is a completely different issue

Why do you come on Veeky Forums if you can't handle someone poking fun at you?

To be fair, there is a pinch of truth in antisemitism. Celine wasn't wrong

>anti-semitism is bad even if it's justified

Just know that intelligence is largely inherited from your mothers side.

there are also more women of average intelligence than men of either extremes of intelligence

james joyce said the same thing

he claimed he didnt like smart women and that feminism didnt make women happier

>being on Veeky Forums when you have the reading comprehension of a third grade refugee
Again, i'm saying he's an antisemite. If he's righ in that or not, that's another question entierly.

I want Veeky Forumstards to leave.

Thanks, dood.

Proof?

>People perceive that they are being lied to, and see that society is nothing but a massive sham, yet are forced to play along and see that other people are playing along as well
Yeah, that's what happens when you become an adult, and that was the motive behind every youth movement of the past century. Zazous, hippies, punks, emo kids, and all the other teenagers who thought their parents were imbeciles and hypocrites. The only old people who claim to be alt right do so for the money, like Alex Jones.

I can't say it has to do with intelligence so much as personality

many (((Smart))) girls are not terribly smart, meanwhile its not like my gf is a moron since she's very competent with her work, she just has a naturally sweet and caring personality and actively enjoys typical "home maker" stuff like cooking and sewing

what i'm trying to say is if anti-semitism is justified, then why complain about it?

I'm sure it will be shit.

seriously, j.d salinger rode the wave right into cliche-wipeout.

What is there to understand about the alt right even? It's just butthurt about minorities and social liberalism.

I'm saying I'm not concerned about anti-semitism

The point was never whether or not anti-Semitism is justified, the point is that ironic anti-Semitism is still anti-Semitism. Your views on Sam Hyde or the Jews are irrelevant; the point is that it's anti-Semitic to traffic repeatedly in anti-Jewish tropes for fun and laughter, regardless of whether or not you "really" believe them or whether or not Jews wield too much power in American society.

So can anti-Semitism be justified or not?