When will University die?

or you could just rent this equipment for 0.01% of college costs...

?? My dude, it's $10K a year to go to my college, and I easily use thousands of dollars a week in what it would cost to rent the machinery.

yess yess it's worth thousands of dollars, now gimme money

Woah, I'm not the one who invoked the jewery of """the free market""". I'm being entirely serious when I say that the cost of production alone for the many hours I end up using NMR, the various MS machines, the Illumina sequencer, all the goddamn PCR primers I end up slamming through, even shit like lab equipment, fume hood, centrifuges, and then you get into actually obtaining certain samples which require a shitton of breeding and sifting through thousands of potential mutants... Nah man, it's expensive shit, and I would not be able to afford that on my own. Everyone pitches in a bit of money via tuition, so everyone can use the equipment. It's a sensible arrangement, and some of the money is mismanaged by administration- don't get me wrong- but the principle idea and function isn't lost in it.

whatever floats your boat buddy

Anything tagged for “laboratory” costs exponentially more

>gets destroyed
>"whatever buddy"

That may be the case- there is a lot of cost associated with proprietary bullshit. But even the energy cost is staggering when you consider the supermagnets used in NMR, or the energy required for high thoroughput LC/MS/MS, both for electrospray/MALDI and the quadrupole/ionization chambers. I agree there's a huge problem with price hikes as a result of near-monopolies, but then the argument goes to how smart legislation can keep such things from occurring, and it's no longer about the utility of a university setting. There's no doubt that, especially for equipment that by nature is highly demanding of resources, a communal setting for research is incredibly beneficial for advancing any field of study/knowledge.

I'm in University right now you faggot and I can tell you first hand that nothing they offer fuck all for the price tag. Most of the learning comes from YouTube or the textbook.

Listen here, buddy, whenever the internet starts producing better intellectuals than universities, we will notice. As of now, internet intellectuals are just shitty YouTubers with clickbait videos so I guess we are not even close to your dream.

>t. freshman in shit uni
fuck off

t. Dropout

No buddy, straight A's freshmen year though. Keep thinking you haven't wasted 4 years of life and money though

I haven't. I learned a lot, met great people, and got set on a bright career path.

I would tell you that university is what you make of it, and you need to talk to the people who work on your field to get involved in research, etc etc, but you're just a faggot freshman so fuck off.

So can you provide me with a real argument as to why I am spending 10k a year on this shit? Oh wait, you can't! I forgot that academics are too fragile for the real world so instead of finding their own way, they take a safe wagecuck position wasting tuition and taxpayer money on reasearch that will never produce anything relevant!

I dunno. Why are you? Sounds like you'd be better at a trade school or something, or just dropping out and getting a minimum wage job. University really doesn't benefit idiots, it just takes their money and does nothing for them.

I came in ready to learn from the school, but after two and a half full years of reading fucking textbooks and completing homework web assignments outsourced to private companies ($100 to access your own fucking homework) the one thing University has taught me is what a fucking waste of time it is. If degrees didn't hold so much artificial value I would just get the book list and spend 1/4 of the time learning the stuff. So can you explain how University enlightened you on your intelligence, Mr. Intellectual?

Pretty sure you picked a terrible degree in a shit uni. I did math, and university provided me with great educators, research opportunities and connections that have allowed me to get international education opportunities. This all set me in the right path to an academic career.

Nobody goes to college for an education. How would you even get your foot in the door without a degree? By becoming the next Nikola Tesla?

Idk, is UBC shit? Is Computer Engineering a terrible degree? Maybe leafcuck schools are just on a lower level

Also
>academic career in math
I like math, I like calculus, and I love linear algebra but I would kill myself if I chose an academic math career.

ubc is pretty good for what I know. I don't know if their CE program is good. but take advantage of the university. contact the groups and professors that do interesting things, and ask to work with them. talk to your profs, have some initiative. it's not worth it to do just what you're expected to.

Jesus fucking christ, can't tell if OP is trolling after he gave up when I provided a sound argument for the benefit of Uni along with my own personal experience as an example, or if this fucker didn't read the rest of the thread.

People who bitch and whine about their degree and wasted time are doing so because the point flew over their head entirely. Uni is a place where you can network, get involved in in-depth research, and have an environment where such a thing is made easy to do. Any study can be good by that merit- Language, History, etc. even benefit vastly by the ability to easily access all of the required archives and specialists. As electronic networking and storage become more readily accessible, there's a strong case for these fields moving over into a different medium- but any analytical or physical science must by the necessity of the equipment, be performed physically.

The prescriptive fields- Computer Science, Engineering, Medicine, aren't very good for university. For the most part (except for theory in compsci and certain areas of medicine), are glorified trades. Compsci fags are shat on on Veeky Forums constantly for a couple of reasons.
1) Why go to University for a skill you can very well learn from books and the internet? You made some shitty life choices yourself if you did that.
2) Coding, and computer science are quickly turning in society to be less of a field to go into, and more of a basic skill everyone should have. Even in basic biology programs now you have to have a decent grasp of languages like Python and R in order to perform statistical analyses.

>you have to do more work even tho you pay out the ass for being there
lol, little cuckboy faggot academic

>You let yourself get swindled because you don't take advantage of what you payed for
No, I'm not that user, but you're kind of the one who sounds like a cuck right now. It's like paying for a gym membership and then whining about how you already payed the money, and wondering why you have to lift weights to build muscle.

At first, the purpose of university was to get educated about a particular subject. But the Internet now makes it possible to do this without university.

So now the current purpose of university is to gain proof that you are knowledgeable about a subject. As soon as somebody creates an Internet service that can do this, university will become obsolete.

>education is like lifting
not even close try again poindextexer

>brainlet
When will they learn?

>Engineering and Medicine aren't good for University

Good thing you need a degree by law to work in those fields.This is most likely the point I am trying to make, these fields are paying for scum like you to do purely theoretical jerking off all day. If these fields didn't exist maybe you would have to provide something useful to society.

This, out of all the answers this.

My uni is Shit (at least for my major, not so much minor) and I fuckingvhate it. Homework was also outsourced and we read the book basically for EMT. And everyday now I fcking hate going to school now. I really didn’t think my school through.

With that being said I don’t believe College is a waste to time or money it is a place where groups of individuals go to learn, share ideas, “pitch” in for lab equipment and such, and where we have fun. It’s not exactly the real world but it’s also not remedial highschool. With the right professors and the right program people can be successful. And people actually learn.

However, many colleges, if not all, are over priced. And that’s the worst part, people shouldn’t struggle so much to better themselves. And it is very tempting it want to learn from books and the internet but not all texts or sites are equal. But finding good resources like this is a bit of hassle. If one is determined they’ll find them, else they’ll just learn the basic click bait Shit. It’s like saying “dude, there’s like millions of diamonds underground. Why fucking pay? Get one yourself” but finding them and digging them up is the hard part.

If someone has a desired product/knowledge they will always want to shill, no one wants to give away stuff for free.

Also this

reread what you wrote 3 times then look at what i wrote 3 times. now go slam your sloping skull against a concrete wall until your orbital looks like a shattered soup bowl.

t. brainlet that couldn't pass freshman year of community college

get back to making my burger

No, everyone pitched in a bit of money via tuition so

>thinks school is overpriced for what it provides
>"lol brainlet"
Literal wallet cuck

You're shifting the goalposts a little here. As the user who that guy was in a conversation with was talking about, talking about whether uni has a purpose is a separate issue than the discussion of the endemic problems with modern uni systems. You're essentially doing the same thing as sjw fags in discussing the police- conflating the issue of whether or not we should have police or if the police do good with talking about problems with some practices or some specific people/departments.

I don't know why you seem to be throwing around the word cuck when you keep showing throughout the thread that you are so weirdly quick to let people run away with your money without getting your dollars' worth, as well as so weirdly quick to take the mentality of "there're a few bad things so it wasn't worth my time anyways" just like a cuck would do if his girlfriend got taken.

It's like pottery.

How are you gonna do labs and get help with hard shit? Also get references.

You're a retard, education shouldn't be exceptionally expensive or society wouldn't have nearly the advancement that we currently have today, academics shouldn't be about money, but about selecting the best. Most of the retards that go to college now a days aren't going to get anything useful out of it because if you don't go for a STEM degree or finance/law degree, you're wasting your time. No one gives a fuck about all the retards with business majors, they're better off just never attending, but if they can subsidize the costs of expensive lab equipment for the more intelligent, then i'm all for it.

>Offered full ride to CMU many years ago
>Took it and exceeded expectations
>Get PAID 12k a year to attend
>Obtain bachelors in electrical engineering and computer science in 3 years and a semester
>Enter field immediately and work in industry immediately

Also, look at the costs of how fucking cheap most 4 year universities are now. Many are just a mere 10k a year, if you can't go to one of those universities, if you can't budget out 10 fucking grand over a year, you're probably a retard and shouldn't attend university.

Well, you need some form of standardized test to prove your abilities for certain positions, such as a nuclear engineer. Also, somethings it is hard to learn on your own, without access to expensive equipment, for instance, chemistry. Universities provide both standardized testing and access to these expensive of controlled substances and equipment. That's why they still exist.

>*somethings it is = somethings are hard

Not to mention to get professional certification you generally need university courses.

This guy gets it.

I wouldn't want some random guy off the street to be head of a nuclear plant.

Didn't see this response before. No, everyone CAN use the equipment. Not many of them CHOOSE to use the equipment. That's not the fault of the university, at all. Still, the way that most of the budget works, is that equipment and tuition are all dealt with department-side, meaning that only the people in the bio/chem/genetics/etc. programs are paying for the machines in the labs, and similarly it's doled out based on the people who are in the programs. Hell, for geology/archaology/anthropology, the specimens at the unis are incredibly expensive, and for language/arts/history, the resources, archives, materials, etc. are also very expensive- though I'd be willing to wager the profit margin is greater in those programs.

Again, it's about what you make of it. It's a great system BECAUSE of that- you can afford something you otherwise wouldn't be able to because of collaboration.

How is CMU? I considered it, but instead went to a good state uni that actually, similarly to your situation, paid me ~10K/year to attend. I'm very happy with it, I loved the molecular biology program, and got a lot out of it.

Decided not to bite the engineering bullet because it looked soul-sucking.

Go on, make the same equipment on your own for less and I'll cede.

>I wouldn't want some random guy off the street to be head of a nuclear plant.
B-but I went t-to the u-university of YouTube and Stack Exchange?!

So, what I'm hearing is that we need a reformation of higher education?

>There's no doubt that, especially for equipment that by nature is highly demanding of resources, a communal setting for research is incredibly beneficial for advancing any field of study/knowledge.
This was even the founding principle behind the Library of Alexandria.

>Keep thinking you haven't wasted 4 years of life and money though
Ah yes, really wasting my money, when to run half of the equipment needed for my degree would literally bankrupt me. Sure thing, Dunning.

Do you know how many patents? Or groundbreaking medical procedures are the result of university research, fuckhead?

>Does a shit degree that he couldn't learnt at home, but instead blames it on the concept of universities rather than his inability of foresight and research
Fuck off, brainlet.

oh yeah i'm sure that's useful information, sequencing people's genomes to figure out how white they are lmao

don't worry I'm not gonna stop you from wasting your university's money, but don't try to pretend you weren't essentially jacking off and providing no economic value

Not a reformation in its entirety, but closer attention paid to legislation that incentivizes profiteering instead of societal benefit. The whole point of research institutions in the first place is to help the country, and society, advance through making technological advancement more possible. Problems of corruption persist wherever there is power- power is meant for people who believe in working for the common good to be able to do so more easily, but it has the dual edge of attracting people who want it for personal gain. The way the US government, as an example, is set up is in order to safeguard against this phenomenon (which is of course, not perfect in doing so). Even so, we as citizens can always put pressure on lawmakers to pass legislation that keeps the focus on research and away from profiteering by limiting the markup that monopoly-holding tech or IP holders can impose, which end up counter-productive to advancement.

>This was even the founding principle behind the Library of Alexandria.
Exactly. Spoiler: That's also the founding principle behind society in the first place. People coexisting peacefully together can achieve more than everyone versus everyone in the wild.

My personal area of expertise, but what always fucking blows my mind wide open is this: genome.ucsc.edu/

You can browse any of the sequenced model genomes, including the human one. Every single goddamn base pair- you can even download it for free. Every gene we've discovered is listed, and for most genes, there's even a test of expression levels in over 50 different tissues. Opening up the page for any single gene will direct you to every article about that gene and the protein it creates, as well as any medical disorders involved. Let's say you go to a gene that codes for a protein that's dysfunctional in cystic fibrosis, it'll lead you to the OMIM page: omim.org/entry/602421, and the fucking amount of data is crazy. All public.

It is basically the same thing, building up a biological facet. You work a muscle, it tears and repairs, getting slightly stronger. You work the brain, is builds neurological pathways and gets slightly more efficient.

I'm not taking your degree nigger

Funny you post that after I went on my diatribe about the genome browser. I'm actually not all that good with the population level haplotype tracking- I get the theory and practice, but it's too much of an arbitrary pain in the ass to bother with.

It's more for known disease alleles and giving people an idea of genes they have mutations in that might lend themselves to being proto-oncogenes, or if they might provide some risk of birth defect. With the human genome browser so easy to work with on a public level, you can just sequence the genome, get the raw text for every nucleotide that you've sequenced, and then just run a test against the model human genome. You then filter out all of the differences that aren't in protein coding sequences (for the sake of simplicity), and then the list is actually pretty small- even smaller if you're talking about things that we know have some kind of phenotypic effect. I don't do it on a commercial basis because I'm not qualified to be a gene counselor, but it's just if friends or family are curious, and it might do some good to advise that they are a bit more careful with their booze if they have some lowered function in proteins related to liver function. You're right that it doesn't really provide economic value, but if you're talking about whether I've gotten my money's worth- if we're talking on a commercial dollar value, probably yeah.

You asked why universities as a WHOLE exist, not why they exist for your single degree (or for you) you arrogant little solipsistic fuckhead. Grow the fuck up already, Jesus Christ. - It is like arguing with a toddler, you CONSTANTLY change the topic to suit your sophistry.

>researchgate.net/post/What_is_the_application_of_DNA_Sequencing_in_Medicine_or_Pharmacology2
>ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3144864/
>bitesizebio.com/27892/decoding-the-genome-applications-of-dna-sequencing/
And BTFO again.

is for .

>Reformation
I agree wholeheartedly.

>People coexisting peacefully together can achieve more than everyone versus everyone in the wild.
I also agree with this, though if you haven't noticed, OP seems to be a selfish child.

>genome.ucsc.edu/
That truly is amazing and wouldn't exist without the input of universities.
Also, thank you for the interesting link.

CMU was fine when I attended, I don't check up on it or interact at all except to access the academic research database, but I wasn't really into the whole culture of the school. I attended classes and focused on studies because losing my scholarship was not an option, considering the attendance costs. I think the attendance costs per year when I attended was around 45K.

I bit the engineering bullet because I wasn't sure of job security in biology, but I enjoy biology the most out of all the fields, and still read about it in my free time. Engineering isn't terrible if you love learning about anything, and have the necessary willpower to do it constantly and outcompete your peers. It's really rewarding, or at least my computer science knowledge is because I can sit around during my free time and program whatever I want. I have a pretty good time. I guess I could design circuitry for something, but it's really not as fun, and not really applicable because I chose to go specifically into power systems.

What Uni did you attend? I probably would have done biology myself and maybe went into a sub-category if I was guaranteed a job. I just don't/didn't see the application of biology outside of medicine in the economy, except for maybe some inhumane aquariums or becoming a vet. Now i'm hearing all about genetic engineering, I probably would have went for that if it was a thing when I attended.

No problem man, it always astounds me when I see stuff like the genome browser, or OMIM just how much is publicly available. Though, that just brings me to another question about the OP's question;

How the fuck would any of the information you learn on the internet exist without Universities? These databases, techniques, and discoveries are all active areas of study, and require public research as opposed to private, proprietary research in order for it to all be accessible online.

UW Seattle. I'm doing grad for genetics now, but undergrad in molecular bio there. I got my scholarship mostly need-based, with a bit of merit- top of my class in high school, but it wasn't saying much because it was the poorest school in the district. I intended on going into law (still do), but when I got to college I figured since law takes any major under the sun, I'd do a STEM undergrad. Shit was stressful, but I found something I really loved in biology, and got even more psyched as I went down the rabbit hole of genetics, and researched the current climate on the absolute void of lawyers who are competent and literate in science- particularly genetic engineering/bioethics/intellectual property. So the plan now is PhD in genetics, then hopefully a law degree, and then try for a biotech firm, or even bioethics, and eventually aim for a policy position. Grad program is paid for, undergrad was already paid for, just have to worry about any debts I incur with law school- but assuming I have a PhD already by then, I don't think I'll be freaking out too much with paying it back.

I just want the fees not be in the ten thousands. Why the fuck is it so expensive even for public universities?

>t. first year dropout
didnt even make it 1 year, tyrone?
>i-it's not because i'm black

Just a decade and I'll have my gender figured out.

Incorrect.

You learn amazing and wonderful skills in any university. And the most important thing: you connect with hundreds of likeminded people you will in future work with.

So always go to university if you want a good life.

>his trade relies on the research and discoveries of harder, more important, fields of study
>wants the people who are actually advancing the canon of human knowledge to start contributing
>isn't even sure on the point he is trying to make

what did you mean by this?

You are exactly right. Most don’t push themselves enough to solidify the knowledge in their brains unless there are grades and competition. Anyone can read the material. But To cement it takes fear and determination.

I found the same thing. 80% was about the great people I met. And a hard 20% was the skill I left with.

Can't you just enroll and just do the exams without ever showing up to any of the lectures? The only think you HAVE to do (if you want to get the degree) is to pass exams, your thesis, etc., nobody is forcing you to attend any lectures.

Nobody is forcing you to use the materials they provide.

Even if there were no unis, at the end of the day you're going to have to prove your qualifications somehow.

I'm a senior Chemistry BS major and gonna graduate soon. Got no idea what I'll go after college as I went into chemistry to insure I have a job and not out of passion...

Right now I'm looking into going into either Colloid chemistry or possible materials science. I got shit grades and really want I is to get into management ASAP.

>It's another early December on Veeky Forums
All you had to do was fucking study

kek, so true. Always fun to see all those whiny freshmen after finals week.

"the real world"
Why do you glorify being chained to menial work? The point of university is to be better. The point of tech is to be better. Praise yourself for your tribal being-a-real-man mentality, but the point of civilization is to insulate people from nature and free them for higher pursuits... like relaxing at university doing research instead of hunting and foraging.

You're all wrong. University is not worth the price tag outside of Europe, university is not for everyone, a degree is not a guarantee for a job, most degrees are useless, and given that degrees are quality controlled and education is delivered by authorities on a given subject, the internet can never replace them.

you go to college to make friends and fuck girls, it's a breeding ground.

>How the fuck would any of the information you learn on the internet exist without Universities?

You seriously think OP is disparaging universities in general?

>highest avg. salary
>it's compared to schools where it's not the main field

What if going to university not to get a job, but going to university to challenge yourself and thus enjoy math or physics more. Not everything is about money, only wageslaves will tell you that, and if you want to make money major in statistics or buisness.

that's rich coming from you

It's important to balance the two aspects though. Without proper finances, your life is probably to miserable to enjoy math/physics/etc.

This. I honestly doubt you guys are as motivated to self study as you say you are. At least not as many as it seems. Once one of these threads pops up suddenly everyone is the next newton who can derive all of electromagnetism in their basement without a book.

No, you have to do 10 assignments per course and labs. Final is only worth 50%

What do I do after a math major? I don't know what type of jobs out there that still require you to use calculus?

In python it would just be:
def function():
x = False
y = False
x_inp = input('Is x True (t/T) or False (f/F)?\n')
If x_inp.upper() == T:
x = True
y = True
Else:
x = False
y = False
function()

Because without accountability very few people are willing to study on their own.

But Universities are not held accountable by society, despite society basing its economic progress on education.

Unless you are advocating for WW3

That was originally the purpose of the institution when it was founded by monks living in personal material poverty while their scholastic efforts were being funded by the Church.

Now it's being whored out to the highest bidder and universities are cashing in, claiming that they inherently help with employment prospects but not actually giving a shit about the state of the industry, which they were never meant to do in any case.

>if you can't budget out 10 fucking grand over a year, you're probably a retard and shouldn't attend university.

Just felt like responding to let you know that this was dumb. Pointless for starters and off topic but also stupid. It's basically impossible for a person to work, and go to college, afford college right out of pocket, and not to mention actually getting good grades.

It's really questionable to go to a mediocre school for something you can learn at home and take out loans. Don't forget room and board and everything else. Even a cheap school would cost about 20k a year. You could go to community the first two years but it would still be a huge waste of money possibly

It all just depends. Sorry you got rounded up man. Even today the majority of parents didn't go themselves and have their heads up their ass about the whole thing.

Even take away the financial aspect yeah it can be a huge waste of time but nobody's putting a gun to your head hopefully

>different races
Niggers are literally the reason why university is so watered down

>You seriously think OP is disparaging universities in general?

No, I was just making a point more that the source of information that comes from research, the discovery of new things, more often than not comes from an institution like a university. That being said, the question of when universities will die and be supplanted by the internet would be answered with "when there's nothing new to discover, and only things to study", which in itself seems like an impossible goal since extrapolation can always occur, and new systems for explanation can always be invented. As such, I guess asking the question of where the information on the internet comes from is what I think is what lends itself to the natural conclusion that OP is a faggot.

That's retarded. There's no denying that undergraduate degree requirements are inflated in order to act as a social buffer. There should be no need for most people to pay as much as they do for the 'privilege' of academia, except to distinguish themselves from others by being able to say they were able to do so. Most of the actual, meaningful functions uni serves are beneficial for a limited number of professions or could be achieved otherwise. There's little to be gained form advocating for the existing state of things.