Autism and Schizophrenia

arxiv.org/pdf/1304.2050.pdf

>since they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion

Where are you getting that idea from? Schizophrenia for example often results in cognitive impairment and a reduction in intelligence.

youtu.be/Ba_f0C3kKjk?t=7m4s

can higher *intelligence* be achieved through training the same way strength can be trained? For example, can training mental imaging help form a weak photographic memory?

I meant that people who are autistic and/or susceptible to schizophrenia are more likely to be genius level intelligence. And cognitive impairment only lasts during psychotic episodes of schizophrenia, and partially because of the lack of motivation and attention span the illness causes.

Yes, but drugs make it easier. Same with steroids developing muscles faster.

Finally, the source. I've been looking for this for 9 months.

Any data to support these claims or are you just talking out of your ass? The video I posted references several papers detecting cognitive decline during the prodromal period (before the first psychotic break) and between episodes.

So...your assertion is that the human body developed a mental disorder to "handle certain environmental and social problems"?

Through evolution, yes. There a few reasons why autism, schizophrenia, or bipolar could help with survival.

In what sense could hallucinating on a regular basis be good for survival?

>they both evolved at the exact same time in human evolution

Hallucinations are different outside the states. Schizophrenia was more of a religious thing, and religions helped civilizations develop. Many of the voices and visual hallucinations are good in religious cultures. Like in Ghana or India, where people hear messages for dead family members and spirits giving them lesson. Developed worlds are more psychological hostile compared to physical. And let's not forget the fact that schizophrenia makes people significantly more aware of their environment and suspicious of everything.

Some time after the neanderthals died out I believe.

You don't have schizophrenia, do you?

I have schizoaffective disorder (mixed type).

I think to a degree they're just normal personality types that are deeply incompatible with the modern world. People used to live in tight knit groups, with a mistrust for strangers who who could well have been out to get them. Well, now everyone's a stranger. What's crazier, living in suspicion of the hundreds of unknown people you might brush shoulders with on a daily basis, or feeling at perfect ease with that situation?

> The similarities between autism and schizophrenia are interesting, since they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion
> The similarities between autism and schizophrenia are interesting, since they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion
> The similarities between autism and schizophrenia are interesting, since they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion

m8 thats not even a real disorder its just a label for psychiatrists

Are you serious? They tricked me into taking anti-psychotics just to make me willing to do nothing for them? It's so goddamn confusing. I'm tired of being lied too. Can you tell me the truth? What's wrong with me? I try to live a normal life but unsympathetic idiots make me suffer intentionally. I may personally enact revenge on these bigots until they suffer more than I ever had. This is unforgivable. I just don't get why people make it so fucking hard to socialize. I just wanted love, and all I got was suffering while they label me for the rest of my life.

They had me on that shit for fucking anxiety. Half of the time I think these people are clueless, and the rest of the time I think they're actively malicious.

Psychiatry is the biggest scam in science.

Seroquel is like a traditional anti-psychotic, in that all it does is make you sleepy as fuck and less paranoid/anxious. Nu anti-psychotics are much worse in that they fuck up your motor skills and movement permanently. Google Extrapyridmal effects, dystonia, and akathisia. All very common in modern anti psychotics. It's better to take MDMA than to take an anti-psych*tic.

Idk I'm a sperg and I have bipolar so you can add that to your list. I also have published math papers and a degree

Show me the papers.

What does cognitive control mean in this context?
Because I have STPD and have an IQ of 153 (according to Mensa) but if it is referring to an erratic thought process, lack of self control or other such mental characteristics, I could certainly see that.

>STPD
Schizotypal am I right?
Low cognitive control = Being a paranoid fuck and making assumptions about literally everything while refusing to accept rationality and logic. Not really by choice, more like the brain sending random signals that make you confused and incapable to learn and perceive normally. Someone with a high cognitive control is able to calm themself down, doesn't lack impulse control, can learn from information presented to them, and doesn't have gaps in logic or memory. Autists have more logical thinking, while schizos are more "creative" or more imaginative is my preferred word. If you've been around schizos, they day dream a lot and live in a fantasy inside and outside their world. Autists have trouble with organic conversation and non-linear tasks. Some people can't help being impulsive or having delusions, so they need proper treatment. Too bad most psychology degrees are brainlets and think "extroversion" is passable to cure severely mentally ill people. I've seen people stay many years in state hospitals and behavioral facilities because even the staff didn't know what to do with them except by forcing meds down their throat. Even psychoanalysis does better now than modern (((psychiatry))), and Freud was a cocaine junkie who wanted to fuck his daughter so badly.

I have Asperger's syndrome (or high-functioning autism, they're basically the same) and exhibit some traits of schizophrenia, of which I also have a family history of both. So yes, I find this thread extremely interesting, just thought I'd offer a bump and some more anecdotal evidence for what it's worth.

Severe autism is very interesting, and so is severe schizophrenia. Here are two videos that show the differences.
Severe autism: youtube.com/watch?v=j4PTf7LgsIE
Severe schizophrenia: youtube.com/watch?v=EqrXjFac75U
You see the similarities between a schizophrenic and autistic meltdown? Granted autism has a larger affect in severe forms. Severe schizophrenia doesn't get past major depression and consistent catatonic states. Autism is more neurological while schizophrenia fucks up all the chemicals and where the pathways go.

Well I mean look at the brains of famously intelligent people who probably had HFA/AS and you see striking structural differences.

>since they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion.

average iq for both groups is lower than the rest of the population.

>Conflating severe autism with high-functioning autism, the post
I wish people would be more informed.

>average
Exactly nigger. Severe forms of both make people brainlets with low cognitive control. But if you are lucky and roll the dice...GENIUS. Only minor forms of autism and schizophrenia really do it though. You also have savant syndrome and religious nutters who have at least one or two splinter skills. Whether it be arithmetic skills or worshiping strange religions. Severe forms of both, lead to nothing. Very sad to see someone develop a severe disability and never recover from it. I hope there is a god to cure them in the afterlife, but maybe I'm delusional for believing in shit like that. I dunno, I'm the OP.

>high-functioning autism

i'm not sure it actually exists. even if there are high-functioning people with autistic traits, they probably just had enough cognitive reserve to function normally in spite of their disorder.

It does exist. The brain in the middle is "high-functioning autism". It's slightly different, but you can notice the different shape. The one on the right is a violent retard though.

I think he means that moderate levels on the autism spectrum are associated with very good spatial reasoning and mathematical savants and moderate levels of schizotypy are associated with good "verbal" reasoning and creative genius.

>I'm not sure
>they probably
Go and actually research something before speaking about it, seriously.

>Go and actually research something before speaking about it, seriously.

i don't trust the research.

Schizos have okay verbal skills, but will use a lot of esoteric and strong words to make their writing more meaningful.

>"My wisdom so antiquates known knowledge, that a psychiatrist examining my behavior, eccentric by his academic single corner knowledge, knows no course other than to judge me schizoprenic. In today's society of greed, men of word illusion are elected to lead and wise men are condemned. You must establish a Chair of Wisdom to empower Wise Men over the stupid intelligentsia, or perish."
-said by a schizo named Otis Eugene Ray

>arrested for creating an operating system
Who and when?

>I don't trust the research
Brainlet excuses. Research for yourself then. :^)

mostly because neuroscience is still witch-doctor tier and nobody legit knows how the brain works well enough to model chemical interaction to be able to provided targeted treatment. All the medications are just guessing and testing, which is why they all have hilarious amounts of side effects.

I was joking. He was arrested for getting in a fight with his father who he literally believes created the Titan missile for some reason. He is Terry Andrew Davis and created the Temple Operating System, or TempleOS for short. He made it as an online temple to worship the lord and savior, no joke.
youtube.com/watch?v=TcqWok8AubE
He lost his mind 10 years ago has never gotten better.

>Makes up a bunch of shit he pulled from his arse
>Gets confronted with the reality of research
>I don't trust that!
Typical /pol/ philistine scared of (((them))) yet.

I don't think you get evolution
We don't just develop traits that help us survive certain situations
The traits either already exist or appear in mutations. The traits only become prominent in a population if it's necessary fro survival and those who don't possess the trait die off

>which is why they all have hilarious amounts of side effects
And those side effects can ruin people's lives. I'd rather be a sch*zo than twitch like a motherfucker for the rest of my life.
That's what I was trying to say.

It's a shame, because he was a promising electrical engineer and according to his SAT would've had an IQ of somewhere around 140.

Have you ever written a compiler before you fucking faggot? You must be a CIA nigger.

By the way, he has a board on 8ch he used to post on called /templeOS/. Go there for real laughs.

Sounds interesting
I'll look into it
What is it with all these schizos and talking about god and jesus not stop
There's a lot of examples of it

the relationship between the two intrest me because of personal relevance.
as a kid I was diagnosed with Asperger and ADHD, as an adult depersonalization disorder. Then I became aware of how schizotypal I have always been. I have never had trouble understanding emotions, only displaying them and reacting correctly. I have always had the extreme interest associated with autism, for example I would tend to read animal and plant encyclopedias. When I was 6 I would refer to wildlife by taxonomic terms , and give a detailed description of its life history and ecology. Needless to say I had trouble connecting to other children. But I differ from typical autismo in that my interests were extremely diverse even at an early age and my thoughts were and still are very disorganized.. I was also placed into gifted with a 139 Iq., for reference. I also have the "schizoid withdraw", an out of control fantasy life that started during puberty, narcissistic traits, and have experienced emotional impotence on several occasions, even on one night stands and have rejected attempts at next level intimate relationships by women I liked quite a bit. it all went downhill after I moved out at 18, I smoked weed all day everyday my interpersonal relationships and my connection to myself was severed. then as the result of several month long heavy psychedelic binges and heavy introspection, I became more self aware and more eccentric. my personality changed, and my emotional and self problems are getting better but I still carry a lot of those traits with me. thats my blog, anyways i was just trying to say that i cant figure out if i am on the autism specterm or have ADHD at all or if it was just misread schizotypy all along

Even an atheist schizo will have some religious belief during an episode. Guaranteed 100%. Doesn't have to be christianity. Could even be Paganism or Alchemy. Or something like pantheism or Gnosticism. Hallucinations help with that and the delusions only make it worse.

>By the way, he has a board on 8ch he used to post on called /templeOS/. Go there for real laughs.
Interesting, I'll take a look. Is it still active?

Not really, but the posts are still there.

I dont think you get evolution the Neo-Darwinist dogma they teach you kids in school is out dated and reductive to the point of silliness. ecological interactions and organismal behavior, along with things like plasticity and niche construction. put the behavior of organisms as the primary driver of their own evolution. Natural selection happens as a secondary process, but is still crucial to the evolution of novel variations

I'm honestly jealous. I could never form relationships with women even if I tried. I usually have better luck talking to girls inside mental institutions, but of course no shit goes down there because staff is literally everywhere. I had my first kiss at 13 (she was an uggo 11 year fat black girl but I was desperate for affection), but no luck since. I'm probably fucked unless I find another batshit insane girl. I can't relate to stacies that well and no way in hell will they relate to me. I also stutter a lot. Any tips on how to be charismatic?

There are still predispositions to make people more likely to be schizo or autistic than the general population.

>they both lead to genius level intelligence and introversion
source?
intelligence is NEGATIVELY correlated with schizophrenia according to most sources
ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/abs/10.1176/appi.ajp.2014.14040516?journalCode=ajp
t. user who suffers from schizophrenia since 16 and I'm pretty bad to average at math and physics, but I was really good at them before I got it

>going by average intelligence
AHHHHHHHHHH
When I mean "lead" I mean a high overall likelihood than the general population. A schizophrenic or autist is more likely to have 160 IQ than the general population. Especially those who are willing and able to deal with their illness.

>NEGATIVELY correlated with severe schizophrenia
FTFY

No retard, with schizophrenia. Nowhere does this study say severe schizophrenia or that they only take people with severe schizophrenia into count.
Burden of proof is on you.

Honestly, I read it from a paper I read about a year ago. And now I can't find it. Here's this while I go on a hunt:
hdbp.org/psychiatria_danubina/pdf/dnb_vol22_no4/dnb_vol22_no4_514.pdf

Genius is by definition abnormal.
Geniuses brains that have been dissected show abnormal brain structure.
Autism is by definition abnormal.
Autistic brains that have been dissected show abnormal brain structure.
Geniuses tend to score highly on autistic traits.
Autistic people score highly on autistic traits.
The autistic spectrum is a spectrum that everyone is on, only people with more symptoms are higher up on the spectrum.
If geniuses score highly on the autistic spectrum, it means that are more autistic than the general population, so it shouldn't be too surprising that autism and genius have a link.
However, those who are severely autistic would be non-functioning and those are 'severely normal' would be normal functioning and thus not have a high IQ.
Do I really need to spell it out to you?
>(not btw)

No, all you need to do is provide a proof or at least some evidence for your claims. You can try going with your brainlet pseudologic like this, but this is not a proof nor evidence.

>pseudologic
Logic is either logic, or it isn't logic. You're fucking pseud here trying to act like Mr. Informed.

So your evidence for schizophrenia and ASD being correlated with genius is that both disorders and genius are abnormalities.
Jesus christ.

...

Lol, you're literally cherry-picking statements from a reply JUST above, that anyone can read easily. If that's all you took away from that, you really need to work on your reading comprehension.
It's funny, at this moment I don't even need to make decent argument, I just need to wait for you to reply as you make yourself look like a retard without any help from me. :'D

Samefagging this hard.

Here's the tip of the iceberg you can slide down:
>psychologytoday.com/blog/the-human-beast/201705/the-autism-genius-connection
>fyi: It is really easy to use Google.

Before you go:
>BUT DAT JUS AN ARTICLE!
He provides sources. Why re-invent the wheel?

You are free to believe whatever you want, but unless you can provide any evidence for your claims you're basing your opinion on nothing. Now either provide evidence for your claims or perish.
I never said there is no link between ASD and genius. I was discussing schizophrenia since the beginning.

Well, re-read and you'll see that I DO NOT mention schizophrenia. Mhm, best work on that reading comprehension.

Well, re-read >A schizophrenic or autist is more likely to have 160 IQ than the general population
>schizophrenic
Mhm, best work on that reading comprehension.

A good comparison between high-functioning autism and schizophrenia:
ac.els-cdn.com/S0887617701001299/1-s2.0-S0887617701001299-main.pdf?_tid=0512ae36-df68-11e7-859f-00000aab0f02&acdnat=1513102532_322c5be2cdfa0ba6df288dfbe2819a25

:'D

Well, you're a living evidence that schizophrenia and high IQ are mutually exclusive.

>Benadryl

Well I thought you were meaning that it was my post, if so then what I was replying to was this part:
>autist is more likely to have 160 IQ than the general population. Especially those who are willing and able to deal with their illness.
Because you replied to it with:
>Burden of proof is on you.
You're the one who conflated it with schizophrenia.
So, if anything you're the fucking brainlet who can't handle more than ONE thread of information. Hilarious.

The claim is:
>autist is more likely to have 160 IQ than the general population
so it is up to you to provide evidence for the whole claim, not the half of it.

>a schizophrenic or autist
* fixed of course

>half of it
What? I'm showing you evidence of HFA/AS and high intelligence, not accurate IQ. I think that it is hyperbolic to state 160, as 160 (truly) is awfully rare. You ARE allowed to concede a standpoint you DIDN'T MAKE to assert something else.

Cool. Now my original point that there is no evidence for schizophrenia being correlated with IQ positively still stands.

Well, I personally don't know anything in that regard and will gladly wait for my colleague to support his standpoint.

>I was thinking more along the line of handling certain environmental and social problems.
I concur, it seems rather logical that like with various traumas PTSD is caused(a long-term mental condition) I think that other variables could also produce different long-term conditions that also affect the psyche. I'm not qualified in social sciences but I think that it makes sense that some individuals can be pre-disposed genetically to react to different environmental stressors at a cost.
While I'm not convinced that mental illness could be seen as leading to increased fitness in terms of natural selection, but there are theories and models that you can search up en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_approaches_to_depression
that suggest for example depression may have helped in survival.

Can someone explain the back story of Terry Davis?
How did he get like this?

Psychotic break. That's literally it. It was totally random and permanently fucked him up.

>What does that mean?
It is a /pol/ meme. They idolize nazi nonsense, that means they view people with mental illness as "life unworthy of life", since many of them suffer from one form of mental illness or another, their coping mechanism for the cognitive dissonance that comes supporting a system that does not support them is to say "mental illness doesn't real, it's jewish tricks". And the gravy on top is that they can say "transexuality is a mental illness, therefore it isn't valid or legitimate, therefore anyone that identifies as trans should be ignored or killed"

That switch is EXTREMELY aesthetic. I could flick that switch ALL. DAY. I bet it makes a really nice "click" sound, like a really satisfying 1970s era "this was built to last" click.

This is why I have a mechanical keyboard, switches are hot.

Weird. When you're on /x/, it's the opposite. People will absolutely enable schizophrenia and psychotic disorders while larping as a vampire or an Egyptian god. It's more for the laughs and interesting conspiracy theories imo. At least with /x/ you get interesting content, /pol/ is full of newfags straight from Reddit and Facebook who throw temper tantrums just because you can't say nigger or kike anywhere else on the web and believe the most astounding bullshit. They want Hitler's National Socialism but don't realize that Hitler put mentally ill in concentration camps and trained social awkward and autistic people to become soldiers during the war. I'm more scared about how /pol/ newfags don't have to go through the rite of passage on /b/ like most oldfigs (like me :^) went through.

Gosh, I miss the old days of /b/ too. I was the most cancerous newfag. Now it's just nothing but /soc/ for unoriginal content.

/b/ was never good. It only became worse once Moot added new boards that could fit a specific topic without having to look through porn and roll threads.