Be interested in math

Trig is easy bruh

there will be worse problems if in the real world calculators are taken from people, like fucking society going mad max shit.

even cashiers use calculators for fucking basic aritmetic and nobody gives a fuck.

I know, but I want to learn to solve problems, not listen to a profesor mentally masturbating to a fucking irrelevant word problem where the problem is given in degrees to convert to radians so he can calculate a cosecant by hand, so he can justify spending an entire lecture so he can justify being hired by his comunity college.

>I want to learn to solve problems
you don't. you want to memorize button sequences that do things.

>Brainlet-tier math is boring
>Therefore all math is boring
You were supposed to master this area of math when your brain was still wired to crave superficial rewards and acknowledgement from a parental-figure. It's going to be near impossible to do it now that you're 15.

Because that's how you learn the fundamentals, so you can then abstract them away CORRECTLY when just doing your 'graphic art' in OpenGL. You want to jump straight to the abstraction stage without learning how it works, so you're bound to make mistakes and then come back here screaming what shit X is because it's not working, but you never put any work into understanding it in the first place.

this

solving problems != being a shitty meat calculator.

Is like teaching how to draw by focusing on tracing other artists pictures and explaining how to consider the line cleaness while tracing a picture.

there's not problem solving in fucking solving problems that already have all the information solved.

I don't find this math hard, I just find boring how the teacher expects me to do convoluted shit to find something IN THE REAL WORLD NOBODY USES.

Nobody in the real world will do hand calculations.

you can still use a hammer and a screwdriver without understanding their internals or how they're made.

>I don't find this math hard
I didn't say that you did.

>Doesn't deny being 15
Heh.

...

I kind of know what you mean, you want something similar to how engineers will learn to solve differential equations by plug and chug instead of properly learning to solve them.
Why don't you just make your own rules to do the problems? If the textbook or professor asks you to solve something by hand, just use a computer. You're not being graded so you can make your own rules.

I'll be 29 next year fucktard.

I hated math in school and I need to learn it so I can be a better programmer.

And math teachers don't help me making like math by teaching it in a retarded way I don't give a fuck.

I want to learn to solve problems bro, not necesarelly plug and chug, but I want to learn the creative process how mathematicians solve a problem.

ghh I want to press buttons i dont care why they work duhhhh

You don't seem very "interested" in math, seems like you just want the tools to use it in another application.

I'll give you an example:

You see a car, in his total abstractions and his entire beauty, you don't need the minimal details to understand how to drive it.

then if you need to fix something you learn again what you need and think how to solve that problem.

I want to go to the hardware store and get what I want, not furiously masturbate to how a screwdriver works.

I want to make a furniture, not masturbate to how screwdrivers works in diferent types of wood.

You're almost 30 and lack the self-discipline to shut the fuck up and do the work without breaking to post cartoon pictures of frogs on a chinktoon website? Jesus.

>fagdit spacing in every post
enough

you don't give a fuck about math and that's ok. you don't need it. nailed it

I've done more than 75 lectures on high school math in the last few days retard.

And I still don't give a fuck about it, I want to use math to solve problems, not masturbate to how a quadratic function with four variables can be graph or how an inequality in a trigonometry function can be graph.

I need fucking trigonometry and I want to use it to do 3D on opengl, but I don't give a fuck about how to convert to degrees to radians to find a cosecant because C++ already has libraries to do that shit for me.

Polya, How To Solve It
Zeitz, The Art and Craft of Problem Solving
Adams, Conceptual Blockbusting

>then if you need to fix something you learn again what you need and think how to solve that problem
you cannot fix a car, or most things, without the required knowledge
a mechanic needs years of tutelage under a senior mechanic to learn to diagnose and fix problems
in the same way, a mathematician needs years of learning to learn the tools and strategies to solve problems

a mechanic will spend months learning his tools, from wrenches to welders. he doesn't just go "oh this needs welding i'll just fire up the machine and get it over with" because a proper weld takes knowledge and practice, just like solving a math problem takes knowledge and practice

Is more like wow nigger, you need these tools to solve this IRL problems, and actually giving you a fuck to understand why that tool is important.

is like teaching how importants are screwdrivers by simply showing examples of a screwdriver being used in diferent woods without telling you why do you need it or when will you need it.

that's fucking trivial. grab it and use it.

if you don't care about it to learn it, and need to use it, but are too dumb to do so, then you're fucked

I really, really don't understand this thread. OP can you post an actual problem that you're faced with when doing opengl programming? Because all I've gotten from your rambles is that you don't like radians

OP let me ask the important question everyone has been missing: how old are you, for real?

>75 lectures on high school math in the last few days
fucking kek

Is more like you learn from top to bottom, where you understand the bigger picture and learn how to solve the problems.

then if you need to solve a certain problem, you understand it and simply go to the hardware store and seek what tool will be usefull then you learn that tool.

A little bit how you actually code a software.

Imagine learning to code by learning every library and function in C++ before even actually solving problems by yourself.

You learn to code in C++ by actually trying to make a calculator and then you understand how to use what you need from a library someone recomends you.

One example:

I want to learn to understand how to make tohou bullet patterns.

I need to understand the basics of how sin(X) and cos(Y) produces circular motions.

Then I'll need to understand how both behaviours combinations will lead me to tohou bullet patterns.

Not masturbate to finding a cosecant from a degree.

28.

well, I had to start from 0 at some point, retaking arithmetic.

you keep using silly analogies to justify the fact that you don't give a fuck about learning. just grab it and use it until it works, you don't need to convince us of shit.

you're not 28 either

I've self teached myself more stuff than wathever nigger shit you learn at your nigger college.

most of it was humanities and art shit though.

youtube.com/watch?v=xYONRn3EbYY
watch this, even your math geniuses are saying the same I'm telling you.

Is this /g/ fused with Reddit? Am I lost? I thought I was on Veeky Forums...

>I've self teached myself more stuff than wathever nigger shit you learn at your nigger college.
>most of it was humanities and art shit though.
fucking kek, sounds like you haven't taught yourself shit

I'm a math student btw, you're deeply misinterpreting wolfram. you don't realize that we all agree rote calculation is dumb, the thing is you care about the underlying math even less.

>I need to understand the basics of how sin(X) and cos(Y) produces circular motions.
Sine is cyclical so it's used with time as an input to keep going around. For example you can take a bullet spawning object and tell it to spawn bullets every n seconds with the object's forward unit vector as direction and some magnitude as speed, and have a sin(time) function to drive the object's rotation, this will lead to a simple circular motion.
Now if instead of just spawning one particle, you spawn 5 of them, using polar coordinates to offset each new particle by (360º/5), you'll get this pattern

But designing these patterns is mostly a question of throwing a lot of shit to the wall by changing parameters or messing with the equations and seeing what sticks

>you can still use a hammer and a screwdriver without understanding their internals or how they're made.
lol, say that on /diy/ I dare you. I wouldn't let you anywhere near my toolbox if that's what you think.

trignometric functions generally aren't interesting to people who want to code "tohou bullet patterns" or whatever the fuck it is you are straining your peabrain to be able to accomplish.

either learn them (which amounts to memorising a few general rules and standard triangles since you dont care about mathematics) or just go back to playing minecraft and stop complaining about how youtube videos aren't good enough for you

I'm telling you:

You need to make a table, then you go to the hardware store and just use the first screwdriver you get.

You don't simply start learning carpentry by understanding every brand of screwdrivers and how their colors of every brand is diferent then listening how every screwdriver works on every diferent type of wood.

You actually go and make your shitty table, it will be shit but you'll actually will have solve your problems.

Or even then you'll go and buy some IKEA premade furniture.

most people don't need to understand how every brand of screwdrivers works diferently with every type of wood.

most people just need a fucking screwdriver.

>but I need to understand everything about how a hammer works

learning trigonometry functions wont teach me how to solve problems using trigonometry.

>you want something similar to how engineers will learn to solve differential equations by plug and chug instead of properly learning to solve them.
since when engineers don't learn to properly solve them

>learning trigonometry functions wont teach me how to solve problems using trigonometry.
you wot?

why the fuck do you keep talking about tables and screwdrivers? you made it clear about 2 posts in: you don't give a fuck about math, and you don't have the patience needed to blackbox and use it either way.

you should really stop shitposting here. everyone agrees you're a brainlet with no drive, and it's unclear what you want to get from this

since always

>learning trigonometry functions wont teach me how to solve problems using trigonometry.
really makes you think

You dumb motherfucker I agreed with you that you don't need to understand anything about math to make bullet hell patterns and I even showed you an example, and you reply with something that makes absolutely no sense. When the fuck did I even mention screwdrivers?

>solving problems is the same as learning math functions
most of the important real world problems can't even be solved using previous mathematics.

see how every new discovery in math was basically something that couldn't be done with high school math.

oh wow, I'm going to solve this real world problem, I guess I need to invent calculus to solve it.

>huh duh why don't people used calculus to solve their problems before he newton invented it

youtube.com/watch?v=60OVlfAUPJg&t=147s

I want to learn to solve problems on my own, not just learn to do calculations by hand that I can simply use a C++ library to do it for me.

>not just learn to do calculations by hand that I can simply use a C++ library to do it for me.
Doing by hand is how you learn the logic behind the process of solving that problem, which can be used to solve other kind of problems.
If people didn't really understood calculus, for example, they wouldn't know how to apply it in other areas besides basic movement problems.

>I want things, give me things
Why are you so entitled? If you are not grateful for all the work that professors give for free on the internet, then come up with your own method of learning math. I already told you what to do anyway, do all the problems that you're given and just do the calculations with a computer instead of doing them by yourself. It's not like you will ever reach the level where the computers won't be able to solve what you throw at them.

You're not still getting my point.

I'm not againts math.
I'm not againts learning math.

I'm againts the way math is taugh.
I'm trying to tell you math should be taugh by actually trying to solve real world problems, not dumbed down word algebra quizzes.

Like: wow, this african boat is trying to reach europe filled with niggers and muslims, how do we shoot it?

Then the professor could explain: oh, you need this and that, and then use the example to teach how to solve the problem.

Is not like that's how math is done in the fucking real world to solve real world problems.

>I'm trying to tell you math should be taugh
Oh yes, I am sure you should be the one dictating how courses should be taught. LMAO there's being arrogant, and there's being so arrogant that you think you know better than the best professors on earth
Also if you bothered to do problem sets instead of just watching lectures, you would see that all psets have actual applications. Curiously enough, they come only after the initial calculation problems that get you used to the concepts.

"Real world problems" is a rather vague name. There are many types of problems out there.
By the way, you don't really need to use that language to discuss something.

>I'm againts the way math is taugh.
Why should anyone listen to your opinion on math education when you can't even spell?

I mean all you've proven is that you're a brainlet who has never bothered to even read the exercises on the books, never mind attempted to solve them

The point isn't to learn to be a terrible, buggy calculator. Rather, you need to fucking understand what your calculator/computer library/whatever is doing when it performs these calculations. You need to know when they apply, what their limitations are, how to be able to sanity check output, and tweak methods using under the hood knowledge.

brainlet, if you want to solve real world problems then you're talking about engineering, not math
mathematicians dont care about the real world

Also, watching lectures on Youtube is not really studying. In college, you'll learn that you actually need to have many resources and follow the best path that will lead you to learning whatever you want to learn. Lectures (doesn't matter if on Youtube or at college) are more like a way of introducing you to the subject and making clear what you need to study for that subject, it's your job then to actually learn it the best way possible.

You realize finding application for math for solving real life problems is basically how programmers earn money? Why would anyone give you that for free?
Math teaches you generalized approaches that can be applied in a broad spectrum of problems, but the job of find that application and using it in real life is on you.

You gotta learn all the simple shit like trig and calc and stuff you learn in college algebra. Not learn but be very familiar with it. Then go onto mathematical logic and proofs. You'll learn how to prove stuff mathematically. But if you don't know the basics, you ain't got shit to prove with and cant prove simple stuff. Like why you're retarded.

maa.org/external_archive/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf
scientificamerican.com/article/why-math-education-in-the-u-s-doesn-t-add-up/

It's not like I can literally google in five seconds stuff like math education sucks, math is boring and math doesn't work to actually find serious problems with math education.

the fact I'm trying to self teach myself math is because I want to do cool stuff, like the demoscene.

That shit is 100% math and is pretty cool.

I'm complaining about math education, not that math is actually boring.

MATH is taugh in a boring way.

they don't even teach the history of math or why someone developed logarithms.

>brainlet who doesn't know any math hears there's some problems about the way math is taught and decides to parrot that
>comes to Veeky Forums and repeats it over and over again
fuck off honestly, you type like a 12 year old plebbitor

Are you in high school?

>and is pretty cool.
That's your opinion.

>demoscene
>100% math
holy fucking kek

>subjects are taught in a boring way in high school
BIG FUCKING NEWS

I'll bet that you haven't read any of those articles you cited.

math education is dog shit.

I'm 28.

computer graphics are pretty cool.

>sisgraph demoes aren't math

I've spend my fair share of time reading news reports about how schools are failing students and how ALL colleges have to teach high school math in first year.

He definitely is. I'll be leaving now, since I don't want to spend my day arguing with a kid.
Good luck for you guys here. My suggestion: leave him alone here.

>scientificamerican.com/article/why-math-education-in-the-u-s-doesn-t-add-up/
You do realize that's not about college level math, right? High school math is indeed braindead

>math education is dog shit.
you mean HIGH SCHOOL education, and you wouldn't know anyway since you don't know shit about math

>sisgraph demoes aren't math
you wouldn't know, again, you have no idea of what math

>ALL colleges have to teach high school math in first year.
you're a retard. they dont have to, they do to attract idiots to pay them

>I've spend my fair share of time reading news reports about how schools are failing students and how ALL colleges have to teach high school math in first year.
Either way you're gonna have to relearn everything as soon as you join college. High school maths are not rigorous as it should be and no way you're gonna succeed at teaching adolescents rigourous math.

I see your problems, you don't know shit about math so you're learning from high school resources. Get this book amazon.com/Basic-Mathematics-Serge-Lang/dp/0387967877 it's high school math from a college professor's point of view

Well whatever age you are. You don't like math. It doesn't matter who teaches it. If you are really interested and like it, it wouldn't matter who taught it.

It's been years since I saw such a strong consensus in a Veeky Forums thread holy fuck

so you agree that high school math isn't even real math?

then why they spend time teaching something that isn't real math?

Is more like I'm trying to say that they should teach math more like in an engineering sense giving students a reason why they should care about it.

Maybe teach it using a top bottom approach, teaching some advanced college topics at the same time you're teaching more elementary topics.

Maybe also teach the historical reasons why people needed to develop the math in the first place.

Maybe teach area and perimeter using legal examples of babilonian land disputes.
Maybe teach the reasons why people developed logarithm tables in the first place.

Why decartes developed the cartisian table.

Math education is dog shit.

thanks.

>Then the professor could explain: oh, you need this and that, and then use the example to teach how to solve the problem.
you mean like trigonometric functions and identities which you would use to model different circular motions for your weaboo bullet game?

its not really a hard concept that you need to learn pure trigonometry if you want to apply it to a problem.

>they don't even teach the history of math
1: thats because you are in a mathematics class, not a history class
2: maths - unlike natural sciences - accumulates truths as the years go by and we are constantly using the "history of maths" whenever we do anything at all.
3: you could have spent your time studying he history of mathematics instead of finding memearticles by failed professors complaining about how maths is taught because their shitty thesis got 0 exposure
4: you dont know anything about maths. shake off your disgusting hubris and be prepared to go through the motions and basics of the subject which may be boring. you are not a genius; in fact you sound like a weapons-grade dullard - you don't need to know about the history of maths (which you literally would not be able to comprehend because of the complicated notation and concepts that underline simple looking things), you need to know that sin^2x+cos^2x=1 and that sin/cos=tan and probably how to solve equations with these identities.

>so you agree that high school math isn't even real math?
if you weren't 12 you would know that everyone agrees
you can't teach real math to regular children
most people don't care about real math anyway, take you for example:
>muh visual demos are math
fucking kek

you’re stuck on trig and don’t give a fuck about learning advanced maths. honestly just go become a gas station employee. this is such an embarassing thread. its so obvious you’re just low conscientiousness and bad at maths in every way. you learn about the history of a subject as a grad student for a reason you twit

My uni's math profs are beast at teaching it. You probably went to a shitty college, mane

>teaching some advanced college topics at the same time you're teaching more elementary topics.
This can't happen. Seriously, higher maths really work more like a pyramid. If you don't have a strong base first, you'll fail. You can't try easy and hard/rigorous math at the same time.

>Maybe also teach the historical reasons why people needed to develop the math in the first place.
Sure, that could work for getting students more into the subject, but some problems come from abstract problems, so it's not always you can do this.
Also, we're talking about high school maths here. In college, there's nothing you can do, you really need to learn it the correct way by following the rigorous logic.

I'm telling you that you should teach problem solving skills and how to approach a problem and teach how to solve it by using real world math.

Maybe teaching kids math in a engineering sense could work.

you're still leaving a shit ton of nice stuff by leaving the history of math beside.

Is like taking music apart and teaching furiously how every chord works rather and never teaching beethoven music or renaissance music.

I'm complaining about high school education.

And why isn't math history taugh to kids?

>complain that math is boring and the teachers are dog shit boring losers
>but you're a brainlet

>Maybe teach area and perimeter using legal examples of babilonian land disputes

god smallbrains are so adamant about their wretched "real world examples" because they get headaches from having to make abstractions and deal with the simplest of thought experiment or pursuit of truth for its own sake

does it not occur to you that the point of studying maths is to understand it in and of itself, which is how you learn to apply it.

you're asking for answers to questions in a language you dont even understand and expecting to get practical results from it

studying babylonian land disputes will just make it harder and longer for you to get to a stage where you can even do anything of worth since its completely irrelevant to mathematics.

if you want inane tidbits of how maths is used without understanding anything just go watch numberphile or some shit. literally millions of people do this so you wont be alone

No, I'm trying to say:

Oh you need trigonometry functions because... and then you explain in five minutes in a general sense a situation in more advanced math why you need it.

Is more like trying to make people give a fuck about the material.

people developed math to solve real world problems, retard.

computers were invented to crack german codes, faggot.

calculus had a reason to be invented.

>come to Veeky Forums to complain about your high school teacher
>repeat
>repeat
>mention how you need math to route touhou bullets but you're too smart to learn it
>repeat
>repeat
>surprised when you're called a brainlet and told to fuck off
fuck off brainlet

>"I can't learn trigonometry let me complain without any effort to seek help" turns into "I don't know any math but high school math sucks and here's how you should fix it"
kill yourself

>I'm telling you that you should teach problem solving skills and how to approach a problem and teach how to solve it by using real world math.
Here's how problems in math work (I'll try to be quick):
>You find a real world problem
>You use math to solve it
>If succeeded, you then think about the logic that you used and if you can use it on other problems
>You try to generalize it as much as you can without losing consistency. You want the best generalization possible, the one that is not too broad but neither too restrict
>If succeeded, you then use this logic on other problems
My point is, sure, you can use real world problems to teach people math, but you won't go as far as you could, because you didn't teach them the logic behind the process of the solution. The generalization (abstraction) step give you a strong knowledge of the logic you used to solve the problem and that makes it 10000x easier to apply it elsewhere.

>and then you explain in five minutes in a general sense a situation in more advanced math why you need it.
Provide a better example, please.

>
Is like taking music apart and teaching furiously how every chord works rather and never teaching beethoven music or renaissance music.
no, thats what you're doing by looking for "practical solutions" to coding indie video games without wanting to even learn pure mathematics.

the beauty of pure maths lies in proof and analysis of what we call numbers. its not in the code of whatever you gamergaters play nowadays.

on a side note: since you are really really stupid you didn't consider the fact that people who understand music theory the most often have the greatest appreciation and reverence for the alleged beauty of western art music. most people just listen to it because it sounds pleasant - they dont appreciate, or, understand it.

>Maybe also teach the historical reasons why people needed to develop the math in the first place.
They do that at my uni. The thing is all math up to HS is just a bare minimum to bootstrap you to teach you calculus. There just isn't any time for anything extra, as everything you learn there is already a compromise made for this one thing, because it's so important for our society.
If you want to learn deeper, go study math.

>complain math is boring and is taugh in a boring sense
>nah, you're a brainlet
>fuck off without even addresing a real world problem and how colleges need to put students in first year to retake high school math because math education is dog shit

maybe you should teach problem solving skills.

the problem is still there: math isn't engaging.

explain to a little kid why he can't divide by 0 by showing him a basic graph of x and showing him that diving by 0 goes to infinite in diferent directions at the same time giving two diferent results.

done.

maybe mathematicians should make better strides into make people interested in math.

most people don't understand music but they can see music is an art and is beautifull.

most people will say math is useless.

I didn't found all math before precalculus hard.
and I find weird to spend two years to teach kids something I understood in three days.

What the fuck do they spend all that time?
Algebra is barelly arithmetic with parenthesis and unknown variables.

>I'm an art guy, I want to make graphic art in OpenGL.
OpenGL is a framework for programmers

>people developed math to solve real world problems, retard.
>computers were invented to crack german codes, faggot.
>calculus had a reason to be invented.

>goes to infinite in diferent directions at the same time giving two diferent results.
B-But, teacher, w-what's "infinity"?

>high school math is super easy
>I can't learn trig though
you're a joke
it's amazing you think you have any agency in discussing the problem of math education for non mathematicians. you aren't qualified, and you don't even have an interest on it.

>explain to a little kid why he can't divide by 0 by showing him a basic graph of x and showing him that diving by 0 goes to infinite in diferent directions at the same time giving two diferent results.

fuck me son what are you even on about

"Is math related to science?" -Bill Clinton

you can do art with opengl.

>le math has not real application autist

is a concept, not a real number to explain the far end of the line number.

I didn't say trig was hard, I say the retarded PHD teachers goes the entire lecture trying to explain examples that I don't give a fuck.

yeah, I guess is pretty cool to see how ABC formulas goes with a non rectangular triangle, rather than simply telling the fucktard PHD that every angle has an oposite side cosine or sine (whatever).

you can show a little kid that a graph goes to infinity in diferent oposite directions when you divide by 0, using nothing more than basic division and a graph paper.

Or you can show kids that solving two linear functions is nothing more than simply graphing the retarded equations in a graph of paper and then explaining the solution is where both lines crosses.

Or making fractions arithmetic using drawings.

>is a concept, not a real number to explain the far end of the line number.