Did German Idealism lead to the rise of the Nazis?

> Fascism as a socio-economical entitity is directly descended from Hegel in it's rational froms and from romanticism in it's irrational trains
what

That's where you are wrong, boyo. Hegel is the Ur-SJW, the progenitor of the progressive ideology, as well as the creator of the famed hegelian dialectic. Leftists are all crazy about transgenderism due to the Hegelian Dialectic, they want to reach a synthesis between the thesis and the antithesis, which in their mind can only mean a Harrison Bergeron-like communist utopia where we are all genderless soy blobs and nobody is better than anybody else

>What kind of nationalist celebrates his country being invaded by a foreign power?

The one who hates decentralized things like the
reactionary prince-ridden HRE and wants a modern nation centralized government for all his people. Actually Fiche and Hegel were nationalists to the core and most nationalism in Eastern Europe derives from their teachings. Prussia was the instrument and frame for the uniting of germans(the 3rd epoch is called the Germanic Age in his Philosophy of History). Hegel might have married conservatism and nationalism in his idea of the state, but that doesn't strip nationalism of it's progressive traits regarding organic unity of all people of a similar ethnic, instead of loyalty to out-dated princes.

This thread is just plain wrong, but that's because anglos can't understand the formation of the Nation-State in continental europe, you guys literally don't have it in your common knowledge.

Hegel rejected the notion of the nation-state.

His conception of a "nation" was as a cultural unity, not a institutional one. Hegel's saw the golden age of Greek culture when Greece was a disunified polity of city-states and the golden age of rome when it was entering a period of military decline.

Italy was the first fascist state, not where fascism originated. Fascism arose internationally in the aftermath of WWI.

That's only one of Popper's "criticisms". Hegel's conception of a "state" had nothing to do with nationhood. iirc Hegel's usage of "Volk" didn't have nationalist undertones; I don't have my resource material on hand.

youre dumb

literal word salad

>Hegelian Dialectic
>thesis
>antithesis
>synthesis

Hegel was a "Prussianist" when Prussia wasn't yet geared towards unifying Germany. Also, the organic unity of the general politic isn't based on nationhood.

And as I said, Hegel's conception of "nations" had nothing to do with the organization of political constitutions, but rather on the prevalence of thought and the arts.

> The one who hates decentralized things like the
reactionary prince-ridden HRE and wants a modern nation centralized government for all his people.
nope, he was opposed to german unity

I don't understand what statement you are trying to make. German Idealism was extremely popular at the time. Italy was a shitty country with a shitty economy so they went with radical change first. Gentile(a theorist of fascism) before going into politics was a original Hegel scholar. Also both countries were newly formed, so it's obvious that they try their hands in fascism/nazism.

You are a simplistic idiot. Whatever talking was talking about was the whole of modernity, everything in it that would be different from eras of past. Everything in our modern after industrialisation world shares certain elements and mechanism, SJWs and alt-right are similar in some things and subjective in others, nazis and commies are similar in somethings and subjectively different in others. They all share the fact that they can only exist after modernisation.

>constitutions
i meant
>institutions

>Hegel rejected the notion of the nation-state.
It doesn't matter what he personally thinks, even he probably experienced nostalgia. He knew it was coming, just like it happened to the Greeks with Alexander. Also the moment you talk about institutions and bearucracy is the moment you allow the Nation-State to take over. Hegel was literally part of this nationalist-liberal elite at a certain point when was into education before becoming a lecturer in Berlin.

>it doesn't matter what Hegel believed about his own philosophy
>what Hegel REALLY believed wasn't what he really believed

>only one person understood me qoute
>owl of Minervra quote

He knew didn't know shit factually about the future. It's shows itself only after the sun of History does down for the night.

Hegel's books were banned from universities during the Nazi goverment precisely because of what these anons are talking about. Kant was only allowed to be teached from Heidegger's lectures which never touch upon cosmopolitivism. So, no. Fichte might be more influential because his political proposition was nationalistic.

That has nothing to do with whether or not Hegel was a nationalist or not. Let me repeat myself, to Hegel, the consciousness involved in the construction of the state had very little to do with nationhood as we know it. In various places throughout Hegel's work, Hegel has denounced nationalism.

Your form of argument is the cancer killing German Idealism. Instead of trying to accurately represent what the philosopher intended, interpret Hegel (or Kant, etc) through a specific lens (like Hegel being an atheist) because it played into a specific tendency that could be interpreted as representing the "true spirit" of Hegel's (or ANY German Idealist's) philosophy (usually saying through implication - that this argument implied this or that), ignoring all of the EXPLICIT statements saying otherwise.

It was 6 not 9

>The idea that Hegel helped bolster Nazi ideology is a total unsubstantiated myth without any real backing. You can blame the politically-motivated charlatan Popper for that.
Please elaborate.

Karl Popper included a chapter in the Open Society and its Enemies on Hegel, accusing Hegel of a shitload of incorrect assertions, with his textual basis being an abridged translation. His attack on Hegel, alongside most of his criticism in that book, are ridiculously superficial and ultimately politically motivated. The majority of negative misconceptions of Hegel come from there.

If you want a full account, you should read the Part 2 essays in Hegel and Legends, with especial emphasis upon the Walter Kaufmann essay:
gen.lib.rus.ec/book/index.php?md5=68D449D13A2C108BBFDA88293FC43468

isn't serious, retards

Where did you get that from?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Heidegger#Freiburg
He joined the NSDAP, "signed the Loyalty Oath of German Professors to Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist State" and genereally seemed to support the idea of National Socialism.

>When you realise that Hegel's philosophy is so overarchingly perfect it will always be misinterpreted by lesser minds, like the shadows of the forms

>due to the Hegelian Dialectic, they want to reach a synthesis between the thesis and the antithesis

Fallout new vegas is where I learned hegel, the post

kant, schopenhauer and nietzsche were much more influential. already in the second half of 19th century there was collective boredom of hegelian epigones and their endless blabber. the "Materialismusstreit" of 1850s was decided in favor of kant. in the beginning of 20 century it seems that schopenhauer was respected for his anticipation darwinism and psychoanalysis and nietzsche was almost like a father of the cult of the reactionary savage. hitler himself was said to be a fan of schopenhauer, although no specific event or statement illustrates a deeper connection.
neo-kantian academic circles were the usual cucks during weimar republic, but it didnt lead to a revival of hegelian antagonists.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Schmitt
>Schmitt remarked on 31 January 1933 that with Hitler's appointment, "one can say that 'Hegel died.'"
>Richard Wolin observes:
> it is Hegel qua philosopher of the "bureaucratic class" or Beamtenstaat that has been definitely surpassed with Hitler's triumph... this class of civil servants—which Hegel in the Rechtsphilosophie deems the "universal class"—represents an impermissible drag on the sovereignty of executive authority. For Schmitt... the very essence of the bureaucratic conduct of business is reverence for the norm, a standpoint that could not but exist in great tension with the doctrines of Carl Schmitt... Hegel had set an ignominious precedent by according this putative universal class a position of preeminence in his political thought, insofar as the primacy of the bureaucracy tends to diminish or supplant the prerogative of sovereign authority.

Kant was far worse when it came to bureaucracy and bureaucrats.

There's a reason why Nietzsche brands his entire philosophy as "philosophy for civil servants."

Kek I fucking died

Why do people always claim that Nietzsche -> Fascism is a gross misinterpretation?

Obviously if we take all of Nietzsches thought, he was no proto-fascist.

But fascists/Nazis liked aesthetics over ethics, and so did Nietzsche. Isn't that pretty big a thing to share?

Fuck me, just realised this is Heideggers Wiki not Hegels. You're right

WHat the fuck dude lmao

Yeah Martin was a proper nazi. He didn't even make any big apology after the war, though he did indicate quite strongly that he despised the holocaust stuff, at least.

He was a member for pretty long, acted in his position to advance nazi education, etc. And I mean he really worked for the Nazi ideas, though the higher officials didn't always like him - he was almost like "too radical a nazi" for them.

He had some pretty interesting educational ideas, actually - like he'd take the students for a march, to do some physical work and after that, discuss political matters together. Something I think some communists have also done.

I'll need to see if I can find an article describing all this, I heard it from a lecture myself. Heidegger during the nazi era is an interesting figure, even though I'm a radical leftist myself.

I listened to Wes Cecils lecture on Heidegger and a lot of the stuff you described is also mentioned there
youtube.com/watch?v=UF8f3Y2KRfc
Really nice lectures for getting into certain Philosophers overall, sometimes the audience is annoying though

The nazis took root because the treaty of Versailles fucked Germany over and blaming Jews and fellating and glorifying one's past golden culture was an easy coping mechanism.

Is really funny about Heigger becaeuse he first despised National Socialism and then was forced to enter, but as the years go by he got convinved that it was the best for germany (read the black notebooks). In many first essays and pamphlets he talks bad at the Nazi party. (one example is The age of image of the world).

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