What's objectively the most intellectually demanding game of skill?

go game

Shogi

Literally just asian chess.

No it couldn't.
You're not directly trying to outwit a single person.
League is slow as fuck so I don't think any decisions it involves count as micro decisions. It's more about coordination and strategy.
The micro decision aspect of league can already be played at a higher than human level (see the dota openai not), whereas there are no melee bots with human reaction times which are good.

same with smash.

thenextweb.com/artificial-intelligence/2017/03/01/super-smash-bros-ai-beats-top-humans-failing-spectacularly/

Nah you are just being dumb. This can be said about any fighting game or whatever the fuck. You could say it about overwatch.

he said human reaction time

Recettear

The "this game is so hardcore I saw it on my animu xDDDDD herp durp kudasai x))))))" meme strikes again.

minesweeper

(32 dimensional on a pseudo-riemannain manifold)

Literally doesn't make it harder.

>It’s not a real surprise it can outdo humans, as it has faster reaction times.
Try again sweaty

Go

Are you saying that the openai bot had human reaction time?

Q3 CPMA Duel. Second place is public debate tournaments. Third place is Judo but non-skill like weight can be a significant factor.

If you limit a bot to human bottlenecks like reaction times, memory, and attention span, to prove a game is more demanding, you're not really answering the question.

Most fighting games have much fewer micro decisions than melee.
For example, each time you get hit in melee you influence the angle you're sent at as well as being able to move your character very slightly. By contrast, most fighting games don't let you move at all while getting hit or only allow a directional drift.
Combos in melee are dynamic and you have to react to your opponents previous DI decisions as well as anticipate future ones, whereas combos in fighting games are more about execution/technical skill than being interactive.

No but I don't think it matters to nearly the same extent. I don't have it on my phone but there's a webm of a moba player next to a StarCraft player which gets posted on /v/ where the StarCraft playing is rapidly inputting whereas the Mona player is pressing 1 or 2 buttons a second.l

I don't play mobas though so I could be completely wrong.

That's like saying running is trivial because if you don't limit bots then they can drive much faster on wheels.

>tfw no one plays cpma any more

I'm not talking about what is or isn't trivial, you retard. I'm talking about the opposite : What is or isn't demanding. If simply being born with insane reflexes gives you a considerable advantage in a game, it's not going to be intellectually demanding. In Q3, a noob with an amazing aimbot and 0 ping will still get his shit smashed in by a high-level player. We get it, you like melee. I like it too, but that doesn't make it intellectually demanding. I like instagib, but you don't have to be a genius to point and shoot fast or to move left and right a lot.

Champions has some CPMA movement characters but the stupid ass character system as a whole ruins the balancing of quake.

There are already melee bots that shit on the best players.

StarCraft and StarCraft 2 with some limitations to restrict stupid shit.

The forum game. Stayin on top on a world wide Web of Veeky Forums graded Veeky Forumscks.

Poker

The Game.

>Melee requires you to be constantly adapting to your opponent's patterns while they are trying to adapt to your
How is that not calculation?

poker. specifically texas hold'em.

it's the game that humans are worst at. it requires you to maintain objective principles of mathematics and probability in the face of 'Variation', or extremely convincing patterns that suggest otherwise. humans want to find patterns and use them to get good results and rewards. poker short circuits the reward circuit that operates on cause and effect, because, over the course of 1,000,000 hands - generally considered the smallest sample of hands played from which one can derive reliable statistics about the nature and quality of your play - you will see things that make you question everything you think is real and true.

but to succeed at poker, you have to override your own primal and also highly effective and well meaning sense of pattern finding and cause-effect conditioning that serves you so well in every other walk of life. this is something that few are ever going to be capable of. yet, this is just the basic preliminary skill for competence.

going beyond that, to achieve mastery, you have to be able to make calls about people. these calls are not based on 'scientific evidence' where everything is cut and dry, and obvious. they're the result of thousands of variables whose calculable probability of meaning something or it's alternative may at best be 60%. and that fuzzy logic, of thousands of soft variables, coming together at once, forms an intuitive process that requires not mere intellectual effort, but faith in the deepest elements of ones human faculties.

all this to achieve maybe at best a 108% return over time. (the fish typically have a 0% return)

in short, poker is a game that challenges us not only intellectually, but emotionally, personally, and spiritually, to learn more about ourselves and others, and to confront with equanimity the frightening reality of a world in which a great deal of that which affects us is mere fortune