Why aren't girls falling for the STEM meme in your country?

The other factors are social pressures and needs/poverty level. In poor countries much more women go STEM because STEM is actually useful on daily basis, gives better chance for work and people value being able to get money and afford necessities more than comfort. That's why eastern and southern europe have more women than western and northern europe. South america and Japan on the other hand have much stronger cultural pressure with macho culture and tradition respectively. Not to mention many STEM jobs require physical strength. It'll be easier for a man to screw huge screws or maintain heavy machinery used for the job.
youtube.com/watch?v=tiJVJ5QRRUE

tl;dr
It's mix of biological specialization, interests, social and economic conditions.

any direct evidence for any of this?

pnas.org/content/111/2/823
or in form of article:
theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/02/men-women-brains-wired-differently
Also watch the documentary. Guy directs questions to professors from universities.

I'm in pedagogical university which focuses on making teachers so we get to learn not only about subject we'll teach itself (in my case physics/IT), but also bunch of psychology and biology/neurology.

Also during brain activity tests involving solving problems by both men and women it was noticed that female brain tends to have both halves active, while men tend to have more brain activity only in half that is more suited for the task at hand.

yea he heard it from some nazis on /pol/ and believes it because he doesnt interact with women.

hes probably also an iq memer

rubbish
decent
garbage

It's interesting how the more socially conservative (Poland, Italy) and disinterested in promoting "women in STEM" countries are the ones where women approach 50% of the STEM population.

Really makes one think.

>Japan
>macho culture
>southern Europe (Italy)
>poor
No.

>study is linked
>post including documentary mentioning that those differences can't be only social pressure since differences start to pop up very early, during infancy is "decent"
>"hurr durr it's from /pol/"
Science is completely neutral. It doesn't give a fuck about your emotions or agenda. If we're at the topic of the IQ, firstly you have to realize what it is and how those tests look and what is needed to pass them correctly and quickly, or in other words, what do they measure. Secondly, studies after studies show noticeable differences in IQ between races or even sexes. And that's where science ends. It just shows. Interpretation and usage of this information is up to people. Someone might consider it no problem and leave it be. Others might consider IQ differences problem and either averange it out by mixing, or by trying to pull those lower on the scale to the level of those being higher, or consider "worse ones" waste and decide to exterminate them. I'm not telling you what to do with those facts, I'm only stating them. Stop letting emotions interfere with your judgement so heavily.
Since you seem to get offended by my posts, I will assume you make another common mistake in data interpretation and not know what it means on averange, and what is normal/Gaussian distribution, how it works, and finally how and where are you using statistics to not mix up anecdotal evidence with statistical data.

And to rub it in a bit more, since I'm in pedagogical university and women tend to gravitate towards teaching jobs in schools more, I'm actually forced to interact with more women than men. In many classes I'm usually one of few males sharing room with few dozens of females.

Read again
>South america and Japan on the other hand have much stronger cultural pressure with macho culture and tradition respectively
>respectively
Southern Europe has one of the highest unemployment rate in the Europe. And it's still slightly poorer than NW Europe.

IQ difference

>When OP has his preconceptions challenged.
The fact is, bub, when gender roles are definition by the specialization making certain genetic mutations more useful than others, you end up with gender dimorphism.
We men can't help being more physical and logical, just like women can't help being more empathetic. That's just the way the biological cookie crumbled.

>And that's where science ends. It just shows. Interpretation and usage of this inform

Wrong. Science is not just about collecting data. It is about interpretation of that data, and making predictions based on those interpretations.

Actually, you're right. It still doesn't tell what is wrong and right ethically and doesn't get butthurt though.

>females in STEM
How many of those are in biology?

>"Science"
Remove social "sciences" and biology and watch those totals drop to near 0.

Just remove biological sciences and you'll see the truth.

Well, as an engineer I think I found a solution.
We should limit the number of women at 50%, or as I'd like to call it - use anti-quota that go to study management, history, etc.
The rest of them will trickle down to STEM.
At last there will be some pussy in engineering.

youtube.com/watch?v=5Qj8p-PEwbI

well I think in part people tend to avoid STEM, because you have to be driven and interested in the subject it has to be a passion to you. The pay per hassle/anxiety/work is a lot lower than being a douchebag shallow manager.
I think the TV anchors are epitomizing my thought. You just need to look sorta good, don't use your brain too much and smile. Just smile and pretend you know what you are doing. Then you have a hassle free life in the land of the dreams.
>anyways, I would like to see a woman troubleshooting broken down machinery in a factory. The factory stops, there is a lot of pressure to find out what happened and come up with solution. You can't call tech support because you are tech support. I have never encountered a single woman in industrial setting doing this kind of work. Being creative and solving problems under pressure for majority of people isn't fun compared to giving powerpoint presentations.

>science is neutral
uh huh.
and race is "real" i bet

funny how things are neutral and real in ways that only support discrimination and division of people huh

>youre emotional
mhm. thats why i went on an autistic rant over slight criticism. oh wait, thats you.

>pedagogical school
could you try any harder to sound like an asshole?

did you even read the study?

900 people of different ages. yeah surely 900 people is representative of the 7billion on earth raised in different environments from genetically different parents.

and it says right in the abstract that men are more perceptional and women are more analytical so your "women iz basically peabrain monkeyz" interpretation fails hard.

like i said, your cultural analysis was decent. but your interpretation was shit.

sorry, cletus, but that study didnt say "men iz mores logikul. sci-ince duhclares it"

maybe nect you can explain how race is "r e a l"

It is interesting that there is such a large difference between Portugal & Spain on that chart, considering that both countries are similar in so many other ways.

All but the three that play basketball

Science, mathematics and computing? Does that include engineering? Because in Portugal the engineering students are overwhelmingly male and they're also the courses with the most students.

>What is extreme male brain theory?
And yes, there is evidence:
>digest.bps.org.uk/2017/09/14/autistic-boys-and-girls-found-to-have-hypermasculinised-faces-supporting-the-extreme-male-brain-theory/
I was going to post the study, but Veeky Forums registers links from the domain as spam, but you'll find a link to it in that article.

That's just engineering. All the health related majors + Math have a majority of girls. There's a few going into computing as well

Go back to tumblr. Your whole post reeks of motivated reasoning so obvious it's not even funny. You have no business being here.

>funny how things are neutral and real in ways that only support discrimination and division of people huh
Politics isn't science, leave.
>mhm. thats why i went on an autistic rant over slight criticism. oh wait, thats you.
Ad hom isn't logical, leave.

Oh, I know what this OP is:
It's the:
>I like to pretend like I know what I'm going on about, whilst acting offended by reality and offering nothing more than spurious claims and opinion. Oh, and if anyone actually provides proof that I'm wrong and talking out of my arse, I'll just ignore it and attack their rhetorical style, or syntax. Gosh, I sure do feel euphoric.

>didnt address anything i said
didnt think so.

>.org.uk
that explains the pretentiousness

im still confused as to why youre linking to "studies" of 50 people as if that means anything. And a study of autism at that. Very few people are autistic. Even if tbe study was meaningful, it simply does not apply.

Its just a fact that men and women both utilize both methods you described. Men can be perceptional and analytical. So can women.

Its also an empirical fact that brain structure and function are plastic. Brains can think differently in different situations. Some /pol/ tier nut theory doesnt invalidate the fundamentals of neuroscience.

Thanks for addressing any of my points. oh wait, you addressed none.

Maybe you shouldnt let an obsession with tumblr paint your views.

>makes political statement
>i respond with political argument
>y u being political in response to my political statement??!!!!

pointing out you went on an emotional driven rant isnt ad hominem, brainlet. calling you brainlet is ad hominem. its just so ironic to call someone else emotional during an emotional rant.

and then you ad hominem attack. the irony.

You made no points. You're only regurgitating politics.

I love that the girl is actually the one with the correct pronunciation, and the guy has it wrong.

>how come everything is about differences when everything navigates through the world purely thanks to differences in signals recieved recieved from the environment, which have their source in differences in said environment
>differences are bad
That's just too fucking obvious bait at this point.

>No proof, just opinion.
Okay, you're just filibustering with nonsense.

>It's mix of biological specialization, interests, social and economic conditions

Like everything else in psychology

>funny how things are neutral and real in ways that only support discrimination and division of people huh

Literally none of what has been posted has been used as a justification of discrimination. If you genuinely believe that differences between men on women on average is justification for discrimination that is your problem not the sciences.

Girls only enter STEM when they have to. Take note of the fact that the countries with the lowest percentage of females studying STEM are the most egalitarian and gender-neutral countries. This directly contradicts the feminist narrative that it's the patriarchy keeping women from joining STEM like they want to.

Norway, Switzerland, Belgium, the Netherlands - all countries that are a feminist's wet dream - and they are at the bottom of the list for females in STEM

Portugal, Italy, Turkey, Poland, Mexico - all countries that definitely have an air of male domination and patriarchy in their culture - yet they are at the top of the list for females in STEM

tl;dr
Females only enter STEM when they have to, and giving them the option is great, but pretending like a lack of female interest in STEm is indicative of a lack of opportunities is patently fraudulent.

You wrongfully lumped all men and women into boxes based on what you consider problem solving method. That is the nonsense division. Which I explained in my 2nd comment

Apparently you couldnt figure that out so maybe we need a 3rd method of problem solving: drool for a while, get angry and shitpost some edgelord garbage. You fit in perfectly.

...

Ah, yes, that guy in a hard hat sure has it easy comparing to Stacy with her business communications degree.

I'm not the other guy you are responding to though. My point is that if it were to be found that men and women different under some dimensions, that would not in and of itself justify discrimination, so findings pertaining to such differences would not be in support of this statement "funny how things are neutral and real in ways that only support discrimination and division of people". One can very easily believe in equality and not want discrimination without pretending that differences don't exist.

>stacy

user that is not a Stacy, she is a Quanisha

Doesn't make it useless to find out how exactly it works. Everything in physics is some kind of particle movment and energy change.

>I struggled in stem, and then I realized it was because my interests didn't include jerking off to hentai, talking about superheroes or rick and morty 24/7, or playing league of legends all day.

Not all STEM students are like this, just CS and EE fags.

I find this whole discussion to reek of stupidity and entitlement. I'm an autistic white male who has no friends and yet I managed to easily get high paying STEM job offers because I have the skills

Do these women honestly think they would not get offers even if they had the skills, just because they're females. This directly contradicts all scientific evidence such as the women-are-wonderful effect, and the reality that companies have female gender quotas and no male gender quotas, which by definition tips the scale in favor of hiring women.

Honestly I have absolutely NO pity for anyone complaining. Less Facebook and more StackOverflow you lazy degenerates.

>Doesn't make it useless to find out how exactly it works. Everything in physics is some kind of particle movment and energy change.

Not my point at all. I'm a bio psycho guy myself. My point is that it is a bit of a nothing point. We are biological beings who behave as complex animals so all of our behavior will have some element of biological basis, due to being social animals that form culture all of our behaviors will be related to that in some way, our interests are made from a mixture of both of these. My point is that the sentence in itself isn't particularly descriptive.

Of course. It is tl;dr after all.

Go read the study he linked then read his characterization.

The study says men are more perceptionary and women are more analytical.

Contrast that with his characterization. Its dishonest at best. He essentially says women are peabrain monkeys incapable of critical thought yet the study says women are more analytical. Its discrimination. Maybe more misogynistic and fraudulent than explicitly discriminatory but yes, then he said womenz stick to language and math, stay out of cs and tbe man territory.

>pretending differences dont exist

I cant tell if youre intentionally trolling or not. I just said he wrongfully grouped men and women into boxes. Which is nonsense. Women and men can both problem solve the same shit. To say oh well the women are monkey pea brains and men are the engineers is ridiculously beyond "acknowledge differences" its discrimination

>communication between analytical and intuitive processing modes means superior analytic thinking
>4 wheel drive makes better tires than 2 wheel drive

...

No you dont need to be a shutin to do well in a stem bachelors, only if you are a brainlet. Just do the work you need to and then spend your free time however you want.

I'd say this happens because people naturally search for answers.
As a stem dude I knew a lot of people who couldn't find jobs. As it happens they were not sharp enough to be really proficient in stem. Somehow some people came to conclusion that a degree somehow validates your qualifications and intelligence. It isn't so.
There is a certain group of people who work at getting a degree, but not educating themselves and getting knowledge. When they are out to find jobs they don't get the dream jobs, they are either theoretically over-qualified for the jobs they get or they change the field altogether. Usually these people end up in STEM jobs related to product or paper pushing.
Anyways, now is the time for my statistically irrelevant facts. I know 4 instances of women (this was 20-30 years ago) which got into engineering because of career opportunities. Two of them, after working 10-15 year changed the jobs (as soon as was financially possible), because they felt very unhappy in their jobs. Others pushed till retirement, but said they didn't like the work at all, even though they were very successful, that most men peers.
It takes certain kind of people to get into STEM. I remember some nerdy girls, who were interested in science since childhood and went on successfully to become scientists.
Degree won't magically make you interested in certain subjects. The answer might lie somewhere else.

>PIAAC
Did you know that Portugal was actually enrolled in the first round of PIAAC but for one reason or another they just dropped out and never joined back? Chile and Hungary also enrolled in the first round and dropped out but they rejoin in the second and third round respectively.

This. About to graduate as a Chem major. None of the classes were that hard so I may not count but for me the only moderate challenges were calc 2 and physical Chem and even with that I just put aside 3 Hours a day to revie and work out math. Still worked, went to a gym, hung out with people, etc. Dunno if I’ll be able to say the same when I’m in graduate school but for now my major doesn’t really put a dent in the rest of my life

why is that retard taking a shopping cart up a staircase

Amerimutt IQ is in the double digits bruh.

Probably they are over dosing in education as a retaliation to the Salazar years. Portugal was the least literate nation in Europe worse than Turkey. Basically they felt shame and changed it.

>chem major

>I struggled in stem, and then I realized it was because my interests didn't include jerking off to hentai, talking about superheroes or rick and morty 24/7, or playing league of legends all day.
I do none of this. Furthermore, no other math major I know does any of these and I only know one physics major who does it. I also drink myself to unconsciousness every Friday and am in a relationship (it won't last, but that's because she wants me to stop doing drugs and I don't want to not because muh stem autist). All while maintaining an okayish 3.6 GPA.
>Then when I became a shutin who only cares about school I increased my gpa 220%, no exaggeration.
So, your GPA was less than 1.25?

Lying on the Internet is not a healthy thing to do, user. Go out. Live.

>1.25
1.26 to be exact.

I know I know, stop bullying me because I like to mix metals and acids

I'm from greece and as the chart suggests, my uni is filled with girls

>go to neurobiology conference in athens a few months ago
>80% of presentations made by females
>finishes presentation, acknowledgements of lab crew
>some crews entirely female

and the conference wasn't greeks only, but labs from the whole of europe and even one from china. i think girls not being into stem is a murka thing, then again murkans are generally stupid and most of your academia are immigrants to begin with.

however, the opposite is true here. non-stem meme unis are still heavily dominated by females and most men going to shit like art school or pedagogy are semi-mocked in general. guess men here either go stem or don't bother, while women generally tend to go to uni no matter what

Because STEM isn't only engineering. STEM includes branches women can handle. You'll see that this division will be much more accurate than division between just arts and STEM.
Branches like biology, medicine etc will often have more girls.
Branches like math, chemistry, physics etc will be mixed more evenly between sexes.
Branches like engineering, CS etc will often have more boys.
TE - mainly men
SM - mainy women or even split depending on which class is closer to objects and systems, and which closer to people and community.

ye but that post was pure bullshit speculation

so girls like S&M
good to know, I'll have to get a bullwhip

1.26 + 220% = 4.038
You must be a genius, user. Stop lying on the Internet, man. Come on.

they fall for the humanities meme

Has anyone realized that women in stem degrees tend to conglomerate to student councils and popularity based roles?

fuck yes i have. They ll group in the eng. that have more women/people in or will let them be in a soc. environment in the future.
this. Also this should be comapared to men in stem %- Nobody goes stem in chile, the go for humanities meme

quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-respond/

>Here, I just want to take a step back from the memo controversy, to highlight a paradox at the heart of the ‘equality and diversity’ dogma that dominates American corporate life. The memo didn’t address this paradox directly, but I think it’s implicit in the author’s critique of Google’s diversity programs. This dogma relies on two core assumptions:

>The human sexes and races have exactly the same minds, with precisely identical distributions of traits, aptitudes, interests, and motivations; therefore, any inequalities of outcome in hiring and promotion must be due to systemic sexism and racism;

>The human sexes and races have such radically different minds, backgrounds, perspectives, and insights, that companies must increase their demographic diversity in order to be competitive; any lack of demographic diversity must be due to short-sighted management that favors groupthink.

>The obvious problem is that these two core assumptions are diametrically opposed.

>student council
>popularity
do neet shutins really believe this?

>strawmans the reason for diversity
>muh "deerr leftists dont acknawllidge dats our brainz just aint duh same!" strawman
>unironically uses the word "dogma"
>conclusion doesnt even follow from the rest of the article

So I'm a female in the United States and I plan on getting a PhD in mathematics (I know I know, there's no reason to, but leave me alone) and my genuine opinion on feminists complaining about not having the opportunity to is that it's a delusion. The only people who cry about women not being "allowed" in STEM are ones that go into literally any other field. I just don't understand how they can say that women don't get the same opportunities in STEM but then also say that I'm making the right choice because everyone wants women in STEM. If anyone even knows what they're trying to say, please help, because I don't.

They're crazy and it's good you realize this - you are one of the good roasties.

It's absurd and honestly they must just have mental issues of some sort. These feminists constantly victimize themselves. Realistically STEM is majorly biased in favor of females right now because of gender quotas which mathematically, by necessity, decrease the requirements for females.

Exactly! Looking at it logically and mathematically it's easier for women to find jobs in STEM. So yeah, I guess it's the need to victimize themselves more and base their opinions on shitty BuzzFeed articles with completely skewed and misinterpreted facts.

They are probably trying to benefit from your success by claiming it was a result of their influence.

30 years ago it was true, my mum says she was actively talked out of doing engineering by teachers and employers. Nowadays I think women just aren't interested by it. At the start of my A level class half were girls, by the end they all dropped out and it was all voluntary, none flunked out and I never saw the teacher or any of the boys do anything to make the girls feel uncomfortable. They just found it boring.

I can definitely see it being true 30 and + years ago, yeah. However, most girls I know want to go in to STEM and study it. Not sure why that is honestly, but it's odd how different our experiences are. Could be that I'm in highschool so school is kind of screwing around and having to learn what they make us do, so they just chose to focus on STEM for some reason? I know for myself that I'm good at all subjects in school, but only truly interested in mathematics. I study it in my free time and learn ahead of my class a lot. So I personally don't find it boring, but I guess all those girls did. Sorry if what I said makes no sense

stop replying to obvious dumbassery on the internet my man

We're a free society where people may pursue their interests as they wish.

...

t. 5/10 white suburban girl

Yep you got me

There are studies showing that theres a significant amount of girls shying away from stem fields at an early age because they are told directly and indirectly that boys are smarter. This leaves them underprepared for the future. These are studies done today.

I bet if you pressed college women who leave their fields, theyd provide a deeper answer than lack of interest.

How much experience do you have in stem fields? Engineering is a very sexist field filled with ego bloated men who think theyre hot shit for acing ode. Its just a fact that if most people had to choose between their house being built by a man or women, most people would still say man without giving consideration to much else. That makes it hard for women to advance in engineering. Im a guy and I dont want to be around male engineers.

I dont have as much info for pure sciences but academia pure science has a lot of male foreigners from old fashioned cultures where women in science is discouraged. They bring these attitudes to the US.

You must be 18 to use this site.

Maybe you should read studies or talk to women in stem fields instead of assuming you know everything about women in stem from your high school experience. Thats a really bad place to make a judgment from. Especially if you are white and suburban like you say you are.

>Why aren't girls falling for the STEM meme in your country?

They are smarter than men in average

I am 18 actually, but thank you for the advice. I wasn't claiming to know everything though, I was simply stating what I thought about the subject from my point of view and the other young people I know. But considering in your own post you're talking about girls being told they're not smart enough for STEM at a young age, and I have had the opposite of that experience, I'd like to have some sources for those studies so I can look into your argument properly. Could very well have to do with the fact that I'm white and upper-middle class, like you are insinuating, but I'd like to see the statistics myself.

>math is about memorisation

lol why are high school children on this board

>Chile
our culture is conservative as all fuck, so girls who do study STEM are still kind of stigmatized.

That’s incorrect sir.

I am neither a beta nor a virgin

Such is my pain of studying STEM, weon :(

White uppermiddle class people (of which i am one and was raised one) have a far more mild culture than other races and wealth groups. There is less societal expectation for them to conform to ideas like "math is for boys" though it can still be present.

In my high school, girls and boys were almost split in the AP science and math classes. Its different went you go to college and theres a 30:3 guy:woman ratio in stem classes

If you google "young girls believe they arent as smart" youll find some news articles linking recent studies.

But if you dont care for studies, take a vacation to poor rural areas. It's a different world. You can witness how women are treated.