In three hundred years, Batman will be appreciated by scholars as the 20th century's answer to Odysseus...

> retelling tropes and stories
>death of art

you are literally so dumb

The hyper intelligent cephalopods who will eventually evolve to fill our evolutionary niche when we go extinct will not be able to decipher our written languages, but they will be able to interpret fossilized Batman comic trapped in amber. Thus Batman will be central to comparative human studies, and books like, Batman: The Invention of the Human and Batman: Poem Unlimited will be all the rage.

Making contentless kneejerk responses to half-understood posts on Veeky Forums may make you feel better about yourself for a second or two, but your time would be better spent reading until you do understand things.

Not the same user, but unless we radically simplify our lives, we are in deep shit as a species. China and India are making great strides in controlling emissions, but the US under Trump is refusing to join them. 90% of fuel comes from hydrocarbon sources, I.e. oil, gas, coal, propane. Unless we get that down to zero in the next ten years, we're looking at a Mad Max future.

No. Every geoengineering action would have unforeseen consequences that would make things worse. The most promising form of geoengineering is taking co2 out of the earth and burning it in appropriate rock formations, but even then, we are talking about a trillion tons of carbon. That is no small feat.

what about the Punisher OP? The Punisher goes harder than Batman, ok.

>death of art
Maybe overstating it JUST a little much. I don't disagree that distilling common troupes and ancient mythology isn't what it is. But I will disagree that the process you describe is bad or not beneficial in some ways. The process of boiling down a character many times, retold again again with different flair and emphasis untill certain immutable traits emerge over generations of storytelling is exactly how the oral tradition delivered us our great legends and troupes. That process is what creates comprehensive mythology that stands up to scrutiny and can be so relatable across generations and mediums. Indulging in mythology as a mode of story telling is not the death of art. It is the beginning because it starts fresh again with every listener, reader, and new generation that inherits the stories and legends. They can retell it faithfully, they can challenge that character with new trouble and personal crisis, they can even kill of the character and move on. Its a fresh start every generation, every mind that takes in the story. And every once in a while a generation.comes up with a new type of hero, not unlike the familiar, but made relevant again. A perennial rebirth of art.

user, we're not going to do that and you know it. We're better off trying to engineer our way out of the problem, it's more realistic than actually expecting anyone in a late capitalism world to live more simply.

I haven't driven a car since the 90s, fuck off hypocritical hippy, fuck global warming and fuck saudi arabia

And yes, the poorest nations of the world will suffer/are already suffering the brunt of climate change, but we Americans are in deep shit. Droughts have already devastated California and the Grain Belt. The heat and cold will be much more volatile: earlier springs will mean farmers will plant earlier, but later extreme frost bites could kill of an early planting, like the late season blizzard the US experienced this year. Cold air from the Aractic and hot, moist air from the Gulf of Mexico will mean extreme weather in the grain belt. If you think Monsanto can develop plants that can survive klller frost, tornadoes, hail and can be grown without water, then we will be just fine. Otherwise, we'd better start addressing climate change.

Get some rest, /co/; you have Batman re-telling 768 to pull tomorrow

dude, fossil fuels will be made obsolete by capitalist innovators long before climate change causes any real problems

We're going to have to refocus our societies to the bare minimum: nutritious, mostly plant based diets; public transit in cities and electric or hydrogen cars in the country and suburbs; healthcare; education; science funding and making the infrastructure climate resistant. We're dead if we spend the vast majority of our dwindling resources on bullshit like the military or keeping the parasitical financial industry on life support.

Good for you, but the structural problems that prevent action on climate change transcend your personal lifestyle choices.

Hi. China and India are making great strides at bringing down thier emissions, but that is relative to massive over population and pollution growth they are going to be contributing. The United States will never be able to out pollute China and India ever again. Sheer population growth ensures that. By the time China and India have even come back.down to similar position per person levels after thier massive consumer ramp up, the United States will be mostly off hydrocarbons to a great extent. There is nothing the United States can do, even dropping to zero emissions by this next Wednesday that will make a dent in the damage China and India will do, not to mention Africa as thier populations explode and consumerism ramps up to 1st world levels in those places in the next fifty years. That's why ice disappearing from the Himalayas is the beat case scenario and dry rivers on both sides of that mountain and massive population reductions is a great balancing force pressure that will reduce global emissions. It may be Mad Max in alot of places for a short while but that's what we have seen historically during climate collapses. Realignment is necessary.

they also transcend your personal "activism", so stop congratulating yourself for being a chicken little asshole, i never talk about the environment irl, but i do smirk silently to myself when some vegetarian goes on about the environment for 20 minutes and then gets in their suv to drive out to their mcmansion in the surbubs, oh but you voted for jill stein, will woohoo for you bro, why don't you march around in circles too

Like I said, it's not going to happen, not without a radical transformation of life in the Western world, and even in the world at large. People would have to put a grander, better ethos, a charitable ethos, a kind ethos, at the forefront of their lives on a massive scale in order to enact those changes. You might say we'd have to become religious again.

dude, Bangladesh has half the population of the entire USA stuffed into a country the size of Texas, and you want to scold Americans, who don't even have enough kids to replace their population on the environment? gtfo with that shit

No. we've already warmed the planet by 1 degree C. When carbon enters the atmosphere, it takes 40 years to gather enough energy to warm the planet. The climate is already under massive stress, and we are literally dealing with the carbon that was pumped out in the 70s. This means if we stop all emissions tomorrow, the planet will warm for at least 40 years, not to mentiona whopping 63% of emissions released since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution have been released in the last 25 years, the effects of which will not begin to take hold until the 2050s. We're already playing Russian Roulette with our survival.

I didn't say there would not be consequences, I was telling other an on it would not mean extinction. The severe weather and climate change ate the best possible motivators for change in systematic behavior. Yes, death and destruction will drive consumer forces and government regulations so that change is made. People are not going to change things until they see the need. Yes it will be painful, all lessons of global significant usually are. I was simply pointing out that humanity will survive. Maybe we loose a few billion people, but that will be all for the better as we will emerge smarter and more capable than before with much more manageable levels of need and output.

I wasn't scolding the US. I was pointing out the U.S. Is.not responsible for what happens in the future because we are doing our part and making changes and keeping our population down. Our pollution will be small drops in the bucket compared to china and India over the next 50-100 years. I was criticizing china and India, not the US.

I could see him being the Robin hood of our time, but since when are comic books even remotely respected?

Can any non-nerd remember or quote a piece of comic dialogue?

Batman was a ten year old boy billionaire who was raised by a butler and grew up to fight purse snatchers. He is afraid of bats, or something, and he doesn't like guys who do crime.

Pretty municipal for a hero, if you ask me. You may as well write a heroic epic about a mallcop.

>Can any non-nerd remember or quote a piece of comic dialogue?
I'm the Goddamn Batman

It is not population per se but the rate of resource consumption that matters. China, India and Africa may have massive populations, but they don't pollute nearly as much as the US per capita. What is more, it isn't even ALL Americans who are making this problem, but the richest Americans. Worldwide, an extremely disproportionate level of emissions are caused by the richest 10% of the global population. Thus the environmental crisis is intimately bound with the crisis of global wealth inequality.

i used to collect comics as a nerdy ass teen, and i always enjoyed the art, but i can't even remember any stories ... people need to realize that things can be fun and even valuable without being "serious art", comics, like anime, are not Art, but that doesn't mean they are bad, they are what they are

Word.
I really enjoyed the Ulysses and Batman when i was a kid.

Again. This isn't about you or me per se, but an entire system that is endangering our survival. Yes, it will require personal lifestyle changes, but on a more fundamental level it will require changes in how the global economy functions. It sounds like an insurmountable challenge, but the consequences of not acting may very well lead to extinction.

Even if the western world went to zero emissions in 10 years, China, India and Africa will not be able to do that for 50-100 years. Nothing the west does now can stop what is going to be driven by eastern and African population and consumer growth. We had better start looking at building cities and infrastructure that can survive the climate realignment because we are not going to be able to stop the change. Focusing on stopping it is a silly religion. Its too late. Lets learn from our failure and build a stronger more resilient humanity with who ever is left. I am all for radical adjustment to emissions including but not limited to 100% nuclear power for a hundred or so years. But that's not gonna happen and it doesn't matter how many solar panels we build its not gonna offset the growth in the developing world. Not even a little bit. Batten down the hatches and start building the levees because the climate will be changing. Lets make the best of this opportunity to become leaner and stronger as a species.

That is at today's levels of consumption. In a few decades every Chinese and Indian is gonna demand the level of consumer luxury we enjoy today. Then thier emissions in 30 years will match our emissions today per person but with 10x number of people you see that right? China and India are mot just gonna stay poor and agrarian forever?

>China, India and Africa may have massive populations, but they don't pollute nearly as much as the US per capita.
i bet you'd never support oppressing those countries back into the stone age though

How do you know that it won't lead to extinction? We are now living in an environment that has never existed during the 250,000 years or so humans have roamed the earth. We are literally living through an unprecedented time in human history. It may not lead to extinction, but it may. You say thing won't change until things get bad, but that isn't an ironclad law of nature, that depends on what political decisions are made going forward.

again, people will innovate their way out of it, not even "on purpose" but just someone will eventually come up with a way more efficient way to move a vehicle than having a bunch of little explosions going off constantly, it's not like some animal rights activist was mad about conditions of horses so they invented the combustion engine and made the car, henry ford just happened to be an autistic protestant who went full ubermensch with it and here we are, the combustion engine did increase standard of living for billions of people, but it we could have done a better job containing sprawl etc. but eventually these problems will just be obsolete, remember acid rain? i haven't heard about that in ages, where is the hole in ozone? anyone seen it lately? the problem with being 12 is you haven't lived long enough to see problems solved by engineering, live a few more decades ok bro

Good points.

yeah this is a perverse argument, oh the 2 billion people in africa don't pollute much because they have to walk 2 hours to the local well to get water every day, isn't that wonderful? no i say fuck that, someone get these people a fucking truck holy shit

>being a pedantic fuck about children's cartoons
He flies around in a cape fighting crime with sidekicks, supervillains, vehicles, and leagues of other dudes in costumes, he is a superhero

I always figured that after the apocolypse that Star Wars would become a new religion. Religious wars would fought over the validity of any content past the original trilogy.

Jesus, what a loaded question. You might as well ask me if I'm still beating my wife.

I'm just saying, those 4 billion or so people all want first-world living standards, and we all know how much first-worlders consume? What are you willing to do about it?

it's more like saying "oh muslim countries that don't allow women to be educated are so progressive because women aren't stuck with expensive student loans" thats more what you're saying with this "poverty is good for brown people because it means they won't pollute and put my waterfront condo underwater"

Who is worthy flies
Who flies is worthy
Who doesn't fly isn't worthy

Only the true (post-)Yugoslavian kids will get this.

>since when are comic books even remotely respected?
Since forever in civilized counties that didn't have capeshit. In USA since Watchmen and Maus.

Well humans have lived through alot of climate change in 250k years, not as much as we may see soon, but our near human ancestors have survived millions of years changing conditions. They didn't have the technological desires we have and the conveniences we are accustomed to bit biology thier needs were similar and they found a way to get the food and water they needed. Did they likely have die offs and extinction of some branches here and there, yes of course. But they didn't give up and found a way to survive. We will have climate change, we will likely have global conflict and die offs of several billion, but humans will survive. Governments and societies will adapt or be replaced in time. Its not the end of the world. It may be the end of everything else we know bit the world will go on. We will make food, and find water, and continue to have sex and babies. Even if global population drops to 100k, that's still enough genetic diversity to have no long term changes in human evolutionary trajectory.

Those will be problems for China and India to confront. We have a responsibility to lead the world in not wrecking the planet. There are always treaties we can make with other nations to draw down emissions and conserve resources. The US has gotten so used to violating our treaties, we've forgotten that diplomacy works if all parties are sincere and provisions are enforced.

We've lived through climate change before, but only under extreme, once in 500000 million year events will the climate change as quickly as it is currently changing. Because so much energy is necessary to change the climate on a global scale, the climate under normal circumstances changes very slowly, slowly enough for animals to evolve and/or migrate. Generally, long term shifts in climate take tens or hundreds of thousand of years. Changing the climate by 2 to 12 degrees C (which is what we are likely doing to do) in 300 years is beyond what most animals can deal with. That is a blink of an eye in evolutionary and geological terms. 50% of animals are likely to go extinct by 2050. This isn't a problem we can just pass off to our grandchildren. The longer we delay, the more dangerous things become.

I don't get it. Where does this expression come from?

I'm Batman

t. Batman

well, since the ice age gave us white people, and the desertification of the near east gave us urbanization, i say bring on the climate change, let's see what amazing progress it will bring this time!

You are putting words into my mouth. I have been advocating for a substantial cut in the consumption of the richest 10% globally, as well as a radical restructuring of a global economy that caters to the richest 10% of the world 's population. Any radical restructuring of the global economy will see the basic needs of everyone met.

what makes you think after the basic needs of everyone is met they won't just breed themselves back into poverty? this is why the chinese instituted the one child policy because after the land reform the standard of living went up only long enough for the peasants to fuck themselves back into poverty

Yeah, we'lol make all sorts of technological advances. ISIS-like armies of bandits will figure out all sorts of ingenious ways of attaching 50mm machine guns to the bed of Toyota trucks

>Since forever in civilized counties that didn't have capeshit.
I suppose that's true. But comics that get respect tend to be atmospheric and not heroic, or resemble slow-paced, thoughtful novels.

Capeshit is too limited by its origins. Batman doesn't use a gun because many American kids could get their hands on a gun without much difficulty. He doesn't kill because he's technically a vigilante and is generally depicted leaving criminals tied up for the cops to jail - meaning he doesn't really claim authority the way that a hero would. He devotes his life to stopping crime, but this is a historically very odd way of thinking. Odysseus, for example, would probably prefer to clean out stables of horse dung than run around preventing purse snatchings. It's basically a Boyscout's idea of heroism: helping old ladies cross the street, except in a costume. Capeshit is fundamentally juvenile.

Comics in general - not necessarily. But I don't see them becoming an epic. The Iliad and the Odyssey were almost the Bible of ancient Greece. The stories of the heroes were fixed and well known. Batman has a different life story every few years and no fixed events, because he is mostly a brand that is continually milked for new comic books.

Jesus Christ, maybe because people who have stable living conditions are more in control of making rational decisions about family size. These are human being, not a colony of bread mold.

yes, climate change caused isis

everyone likes to believe bernie could have won, but come on, this shit is ridiculous

>Future species find comic books and consider them as what average humans were capable off
>Make future species feel inconsequential in comparison that a such a great race died off

We Wuz Dinosaurs N Shit

it has nothing to do with stable living conditions, it had to do with women's rights. redistributing the clintons wealth to the global south isn't suddenly going to make islam and hinduism disappear.

Hmmm...maybe in Batman's contradictions to ancient epics, we are putting our finger on something quintessentially American: reliance on an unstable negative identity; a forever shifting and groundless historical memory, etc.

>start reading a normal Veeky Forums thread
>suddenly lots of extremely spooky posts about imminent disaster

A-am I supposed to get ready for it? Should I start packing canned food' guns and medicines in my basement?

Actually, yes. Climate change was an underlying cause of the Syrian civil war. Google it.

Top Kek!

so climate changed caused the CIA to start an insurgency in Syria? wow

The religion of neoliberalism and extreme materialism is far more destructive than Hinduism and Islam. The idea that infinite grow is possible on a finite planet is madness.

the left is getting increasingly ridiculous with ever passing day, hardcore marxists are still sensible, but i mean the liberal left social democrat types, they just can't make sense of anything any more and they're grasping at extremely kookier straws

Veeky Forums has your best interests at heart.

After a quick google search, I didn't find Bernie Sanders saying it but I did find Martin O'Malley saying it, and an article says his source was this: pnas.org/content/112/11/3241.full
Which has some reasonable sources. Just some food for thought, I have yet to fully read it and cross check everything it cites

so why isn't there an insurgency in california? they also had a major drought for the last several years

It was the prefect shitstorm of man made and environmental factors. And it is the opening act of what a 2-12 degree C warmer world will look like.
news.vice.com/article/the-drought-that-preceded-syrias-civil-war-was-likely-the-worst-in-900-years

Its not a problem our grandchildren will be able to escape. And some of them will survive. Even your worst projection puts 50% animal species extinction, there are still resources for food. Even of we have to grind up insects and process them into wafers that's hat we will do. We have enough intelligence to figure out what to do. We always have. I like our chances. You seem to think that if we do the right things we can somehow stop this. Its too late. I am all for doing as much as we can to limit the damage, including 100% nuclear energy dependence if necessary. But the ball is already set in motion, we can slow it a little but its not just going to stop not in the next 100 years at least. Humanity is not willing to do what it takes. We may get lucky and see a mass die off by natural disaster reduce the global population down to less than a billion to 100 million. If we prioritize and save our best minds to start rebuilding and they build a sustainable new global civilization then its all for the best really. I would love to convert the west to 100% sustainability, and see the developing world embrace the same things in 15 years. Even if that best case happens, we are still going to have climate change, conflict and die offs. Its going to happen mate. We didn't find the mistakes we were making to late. We will lose species, we will loose whole cities. We may come to loose almost everything we recognize about the current global economic and political order. But humans will continue on. Its going to be ok in the long run. Our grandchildren will pay for our grandfather oversight. We are stuck in the middle wishing we can make the world perfect but we cant. Humans can withstand 12 C of variability. We will find new food sources, and we will desalinate the water we need. As long as we don't dip below 100k breeding pairs we will be able to get back to a better, stronger, safer, more sustainable future in a dozen generations. They wont even be able to imagine what it was like before with so many people crowding the planet and dumping thier filth everywhere. It will be like a bad dream to them. And hopefully we will have engrained into our future institutions protections and lessons so it doesn't happen again. And even if it does, I hope those future humans will be wise enough to plant our genetic seed in as many other planets as possible so no one climate can threaten our survival. There is not escape friend. We just have to hope for the best, love our neighbors through the suffering and believe in humanity and the indomitable, brave, generous and ingenious humans who we are today raising. Lets not instill in them a sense of doom and nihilism. Lets be honest with them and tell them that we made a mistake and the future rests on those shoulders and in their hearts. They will suffer, and they will overcome, and we will give them everything we can to help them. That's why we have superheroes and legends. For when things get bad, we can believe

I mean, aside from California being part of a almost continent spanning country that has a metric fuckton of trade and stable infrastructure? No clue.
Even by their definition of "drought" isn't really a drought like Syria's. There's is "oh fuck we're running low on water, better not water all the yards every week and get some water from another state"
Not "Oh fuck there's no water, everyone is dying from dehydration, please god"

>Its not a problem our grandchildren will be able to escape.

woah hold up, you aren't intending to have grandchildren are you? do u realize giving birth to white males is incredibly hurtful to minority and underrepresented communities? you need to take a second look at abortion my friend, for the sake of righting historical wrongs, for justice

I've been alive for over three decades, never in that time as there been mass deaths to due to to dehydration. get real you fucking moron.

>why didn't this factor affect a massive state within the country with the single most successful first world economy in the world the same way it affected an impoverished third world desert shithole ruled by a dictator
Gee I dunno bud, real head-scratcher

Jeeze, why do they make his muscles so ridiculously defined, as if he's a roided-up bodybuilder? Real-life superathletes look muscular, but they don't look THAT cut. And why would his clothing be so tight that it would clearly delineate every striation of muscle?

I was trying to be over the top but I can see why that would sound like I was being factual, just saying that drought could feasibly play a giant part in an already unstable region becoming MORE unstable
The fuck you think would happen when a shithole is missing it's basic needs to survive

the missing needs to survive happened after the war started, if you want the government to keep providing you with electricity and water, don't try to violently overthrow it maybe

Ha. Already have two sons. I will have one or two more if necessary. I will teach them that people who try and blame them for the worlds problems are really just asking for you to save them. What's the point of being white if you don't see yourself as pic related?

Your logic is mushy and muddleheaded.

So we both acknowledge climate change will be bad, but you want to let our grandchildren take care of the problem. They will be poorer and under more distress than we are, but you want them to develop the technologies and the economies to cope with climate change. You are trying to weasel out of taking responsibility for the problems we are creating by cloaking your maudlin words with a bizarre cloak of philanthropy: "woe is me! we are drunk on oil and environmental degradation but surely you will pick up after your dad and get a job and support the family, son." You are twisted.

>They will be poorer and under more distress than we are

you're the one who wants everyone to go back to a third world standard of living so we can all be poor but enjoy low insurance rates on our beach front property

That's not Link.

P.s. Nuclear is way less economical than solar. By 2020, solar will be cost competitive with oil. Nuclear is already obsolete, so don't pretend like it will be part of the future energy portfolio. Nuclear is being pushed because it gives a high rate of return to the few corporations that are in the game (e.g. Westinghouse; Bechtel, etc.) Anyone can grind up some silicone and make solar panels. Solar is far more democratic than nuclear.

You are wrong. Let this be a lesson to you: climate change is moving very swiftly and what used to be done without thinking about it, like staying hydrated, will be difficult in the future.

bbc.com/earth/story/20170418-climate-change-is-turning-dehydration-into-a-deadly-disease

this is what americans believe

you really are thick

same user

you talk like a numale on out who buys a survival kit from REI for 55USD

>I choose to have faith in statements from total strangers, but I am really super smart, believe me

>At this stage, that heat stress and dehydration might be causing this problem is still a hypothesis,” Johnson admits.

now link me to the evidence that there is incidence of chronic kidney disease in syria leading people overthrow the government in hope of... getting free dialysis or something...

weak. you think el salvador is the only place that people work in hot dry conditions? do you suppose the volcanic activity in the region might have something to do with it? come with some real shit not flimsy cases of kidney disease.

dehydration deaths come from diarrhea which comes from unclean drinking water due to underdeveloped infrastructure...so rather than turning the industrialized nations into impoverished dumps to save your beach house, it would be better to invest in these countries and help them develop their economy...you can't argue we would all be better of in poverty then link to articles about problems in poverty countries, it's not supporting your argument, you're arguing poverty is better than climate change remember

Wrong. I am saying that the climate change is going to happen. We must do everything we can to lessen the consequences. We can begin the process of creating better technology and more resilient and sustainable cities. We can begin developing the strategies for helping them deal with what is comming instead of pretending that if we just do everything perfectly here on out everything will be ok. We wont be able to do everything perfectly, and we will see some climate change. It is still our responsibility to do everything in our power to learn the consequences. I literally never said otherwise. You keep pretending that I am arguing for doing nothing. The exact opposite is true. I am arguing that we should both fight climate change with all our resources but we should also find solutions to help the next several generations weather the storms that are coming. Please stop with the ludicrous straw man. I'm not trying to pass anything down the line to our grandchildren except a reason to keep going when it gets bad and the tools to do so. I wish I could believe that our generation can fix this bit the clock is already mostly run out for us. Our generation is diving right back into the same mistakes. The global consciousness is not strong enough at this point to convince all the people of the world to give up oil and coal. I wish it was. Please be realistic. I'm not saying "Oh well lets just keep using oil" neither are most Americans. But most Indian, Chinese, and Africans are. I wish I knew a way to convince them to by pass the excesses we have enjoyed for the last 50 years but they just now are getting a taste and they want the cars and the houses and the rest. We don't have to pretend like nothing bad is going to happen. I wish it wasn't. But looking ay history and the the future, it looks like bad things will happen. We must start today developing the strategies to counteract the climate change that does happen. Not just hope it doesn't if everyone alive starts doing the right thing right now. We can have some effect on the severity of climate change but its not just going to be nothing because we hope so. I have said repeatedly that we must do everything we can to lessen the impacts and give the future generations the tools to make better decisions and survive what does come. Never in this thread did I say we should do nothing. I am simply arguing that humanity can survive whatever comes. There is nothing evil about planning for the best and preparing for the worst. If I could figure out what to do with nuclear waste and then snap my finger and convert the whole world to nuclear tomorrow I would do it. But i cant. So I am simply arguing that we can keep building better solar, better wind and tidal, develop global power storage, develop cities that wont be below sea level, develop desalinozation, develop sustainable food sources and infrastructure that will survive the coming storms and destruction of climate change.

>colinpowell.jpg

u expect me to read all that shit by you?

Ummm...yeah they will be poorer than we are because so much of our economy depends on having a stable climate.

And my point is that a future economy must provide high quality basic necessities to all: healthcare, education, transportation,food and shelter. Look at America today. How many people can honestly say they get adequate healthcare, education, etc. Maybe half the population, if that. Meanwhile the richest among us live in opulence far beyond what any pre-modern emperor could have imagined. Any stable future has to eliminate this ability of the global elites to exploit the planet without constraint.

>And my point is that a future economy must provide high quality basic necessities to all: healthcare, education, transportation,food and shelter.

why must it?

If that post is too long, how did you end up on a board about books?

there'd a big difference between books and blogs by teenage hippies