Meanwhile, on the Veeky Forums O'Neil Cylinder

If you source the materials from space based sources instead of from a big ass gravity well, the price becomes remarkably cheap
the vast majority of the costs of getting shit to space is hauling that shit into space

Asteroids have fucktons of iron and water in them, along with everything else on the periodic table in random quantities
ideally, pretty much the only things you'd need to bring up from earth are plants, animals, and people, all else you make on site

>people don't pay for comfortable living spaces

You can always spot the first year math student who just discovered marx. Also, as said, it really doesn't make all that much difference. "every gram counts" does not apply to space habitats at all. You can make them arbitrarily large and extravagant.

There would probably be sardine cans like pic related, but nobody's gonna pay lots of money just to move into fucking anthills.

Clarke got it right

>There would probably be sardine cans like pic related
you know damn well the first ones will be just layered floors all the way to the center, not fucking Beverly Hills in a tube

the first few will definitely be comfy, since the people who will be buying land in one will be the uber rich who want to be the first in an environment mankind built from the ground up

Depends on who builds them and for what purpose. If the first ones are built as transit/work stations for rotating crews in near earth space, on some financial or military venture - yes. But if the first ones are built 2000 years from now by the first humans to actually bother to step back into space after the ISS gets cancelled, they may well be pleasure colonies.

Oh fuck, i ran too fast and now im flying

What's the biggest an O'Neill cylinder could get before its spinning gravity gets ruined by its own gravity? Asking for a friend.

insufficient data

infinite because the gravity inside a hollow sphere all cancels itself out

not even memeing

Is no limit. Not for that reason, anyway.
Practical limit is when hoop stress starts to tear the cylinder apart.
Force proportional to radius. To stay together, hull thickness must also be proportional to radius. Or you need stronger materials.

I mean no, if the cylinder is long enough one end will want to pull itself towards the other.

Not sure about that.
Newton's proof was for hollow spheres, not cylinders.
Cancellation definitely not perfect for cylinders of finite length. Good enough for anything we're likely to build in foreseeable future though.

yeah I brainfarted the fact it's a cylinder

still, it would get pretty fuckin big before you'd start to notice any gravitational effects.

It depends on materials and cost limits and other specifics like radiation shielding.
O'Neill himself did the math for conventional materials like aluminum (it's relatively simple structural analysis), the result he got is a cylinder 30 km long with a radius of 6km.
Enough to sustain a population of several millions people.
With new materials like carbon fibers you could get something way bigger, but we don't know (yet?) how to make so much of it at a reasonable cost.

I reqlly hope we
1)don't fall on Australia
2)don't get gassed by the government

MASS DRIVERS

ON THE MOOOOOON

I prefer a sphere

the cylinder is a cylinder for the purposes of generating gravity
spheres would be inefficient as all fuck, as most of your living space would have too low gravity

You get way more area out of a cylinder for the amount of material.
virgin sphere vs chad cylinder

>tfw some fucker on the other side built a mortar to shell your house with rotten eggs but you're not allowed to go across the enormous multi-kilometer windows to punch his lights out

You can have absolute bastards for neighbors without leaving Terra Firma.
I think I recall a homicide last month. Two neighbors arguing over whether a fence intruded a centimeter onto the adjoining property.

If you walked around the surface of one of these, would it feel like you were perpetually climbing uphill?

No.
Assume you're asking about traversing the circumference of a cylinder. That's an equipotential surface.
You'd feel like you were on level ground.
The path would curve upwards both ahead and behind you but would always be flat when you reached those points.

Just like Interstellar.

What the fucking fuck did you just say? The bernal sphere is much more mass efficient than the o'neill cylinder.
Space ohio is a long term design that makes sense when you have a shitton of space industry

Time to FACE FACTS Veeky Forums. Colonists upspin of me are proven to have lower IQ. how can I use this knowledge to justify my eugenics self-fellating fantasy?

This, I want temperate pine forests, mountains and glacial lakes

/thread

user, it's not were ever going to build Oneil cylinders anyway. So the cost is irrelevant.

>he lives in a clockwise spinning cylinder
No wonder you can't even score 90 on an iq test. Anticlockwise spin master race reporting

>Anticuckwiser posting in MY colony intranet
MODS

who are you, Isaac Arthur?
the guy can't think of any future scenario in which we don't have fusion reactors in the trunks of our cars, and a trillion simulated humans in the dash.

>why do Greys have heads so big but bodies so frail? their neck's should snap!
problem solved, heads are in near zero G

Probably just someone who's watched too much anime.

what, are there still plebs who live in single cylinders with no attitude control and pointing capability? How do you even live with inferior sun pointing capability?

>the result he got is a cylinder 30 km long with a radius of 6km.

Not bad, although more realistically we'd probably go for a nice round 3 km radius and 15 km long to stay well within margin, and just cluster cylinders in pairs or larger groups of two if we want more space in a single community. That way not only do they stay stable over time, they can be counter-rotated and cancel out their rotational momentum, allowing the entire station to turn and maneuver. That last bit is important if you want to build a generational star ship, which you probably would at that point provided you had some kind of working fusion propulsion. Ideally it'd be something like D-T or D-D pellet fusion, but even high yield fusion bombs would work if the nozzle were a Medusa style parachute, it'd just have less delta V.

did you even watch gundam? There's a whole bunch of newage psychic bullshit in almost every gundam.
it's a joke user.

>The bernal sphere is much more mass efficient than the o'neill cylinder.

You get more volume with a sphere out of the same materials, but by extension less surface area per unit volume. Since surface area roughly equals living space in one of these habitats, getting more surface area is better than getting more volume, after all the majority of the volume is simply wasted space with air in it.

If your habitat volume is a sphere you're essentially living in a small valley with extremely steep walls, and the gravity varies as soon as you step off of the equator of the sphere, weakening as you approach the poles.

If your habitat is a cylinder you're living on a flat plan that loops in one direction and terminates on either end. Gravity is the same everywhere unless you climb the vertical walls of the ends of the cylinder.

GIMMEE TENDIES NOW!!! I've placed a circle of shaped charges down that will make an asteroid impact look like a fucking joke, so gimmeee all of the bioreactor farm's chicken tendie production. I'M GONNA FUCKING DO IT! I'M GONNA FUCKING DO IT!

>only two cylinders paired up
who else here /6_cylinders_and_one_central_manufacturing_hub_optimally_ packed/ master race?

the sphere is better in terms of mass because it's better at holding in air pressure and providing radiation shielding:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernal_sphere

O'neill Cylinders are really for when we've got a big industrial base in space and can afford to have big open spaces with uniform gravity.

is the joke here that webcomics are also cliched, poorly written, has terrible art, are unprofessional, have the subtlety and sophistication of sludge, and two dimensional character at most, yet criticizes anime freely?

fuck dude what colony are you living in? Stoneropolis? Cause whoever designed your colony must have been fucking high. Why on earth would you try to put a huge cluster fuck full of spinning mirrors and in close proximity to each other? Worse yet, you hide your entire industrial sector in the middle? The fuck are you radiating all your waste heat away? Damn, I don't even want to think about what happens when you have a molten iron leak. Seriously, did the designer of your colony ever consider what the word space actually means?

You don't simply have a single surface layer to use. The structure is layered like an onion. This shape is the most stable for spinning. 1g would be be on the outermost layer.

To make it feel like you're not stuck on a sterile close artificial satellite. If you want to life in a cramped bullshit hovel in the stone with 24/7 fluorescent lights that flicker at just the right frequency that you always have a migraine then move to one of the mining colonies in the asteroid belt.
Besides made your structures mostly under ground or in the superstructure of the hull, leave the open areas open public areas with estates and "vacation" sites. You wouldn't really want mountains or even big hills because you do need to maintain and even stress against the constantly revolving cylinder. Water helps maintain humidity and act as a heat sink. Have an aquaculture based on oxygen producing algae that are the bottom of a minor ecosystem. The annual running of the salmon where citizens build obstructions for the salmon to overcome to make it to the brooding pools where they return to spawn. After which is a fresh salmon for everyone instead of vat grown reconstituted protein paste with cloned vegetables you eat most of the time.
We're not traveling to the stars alone, we're bringing some of home with us to the stars.

No. The same way you don't feel like you're walking "downhill" when you travel in any lateral direction on a sphere.
There's not enough of a "rise" over the span of your step to notice any different. You would always be walking up a slope, but one you're always at the bottom of.

That sphere analogy isn't very useful because the Earth is so incredibly large that the curvature is not noticeable by a human over the distance of a single step. An O'Neil Cylinder by contrast would have clearly noticeable curvature.

>clearly noticeable curvature.
Visually, but the same principal applies. Just trying to give an analogy. It's still and incredibly shallow grade, and wherever you are it's always "the bottom."

it wouldn't feel like you're walking uphill though right, even with a very small cylinder? I mean, if you had a very small planet with high gravity, it wouldn't feel like you're walking downhill all the time, you'd just be walking.

>it's a joke user.

THIS IS SEWIOUS

Who said my station had mirrors? We Kuiper belt now, on-board fission and fusion.
Waste heat from the industrial sector is meant to be absorbed by the habitat cylinders as it allows the sun strips inside to cut down on infrared output and save electricity for more productive uses. If you got free heat may as well use it.

I read a short story about dumb kids that snuck onto the station's maintenance ring to shred and got a quick lesson in spinwise vs. antispinwise.

Wouldn't these giant windows be a bad idea, what with solar radiation and all. It'd probably be impossible to have glass strong enough to suppor the weight of the depth of water necessary to block most of the harmful wavelengths.

O'Neil planned for the windows to be covered with chevron shields; overlapping mirrors which let light pass but block radiation.

What's even the point of windows? You just get less living space and have some fucking spooky black voids staring at you. If you want to check out space you could just have deep stairwells or elevator shafts that brought you to structures on the outside of the cylinder.

The point of the windows is getting sunlight to grow crops and create a livable environment

right, fair enough

That's a big shaped charge!

For earthnoids

Only watched 2-3 episodes, read the Wiki summaries, and couldn't figure out who the Good Guys were.
Is ANYBODY worth rooting for? Several other space anime (LofGH) have same problem.

>That art
I'm cumming

Sir, stand down. We've got your mom on the line, she's got a fresh plate of tendies ready for you at home.

How do you keep all the planned biosphere from getting irradiated since it's in space with not magnetic field?

Like real life, there aren't any good guys and bad guys

it only takes 3 to 5 meters thick outer walls to shield against almost all radiation, not a problem when your station is so huge

>the result he got is a cylinder 30 km long with a radius of 6km

>Not bad, although more realistically we'd probably go for a nice round 3 km radius and 15 km long

Simulations showed that cylinder cannot be significantly longer than its diameter or it will have unstable rotation and tend to tumble end over end.

So realistic rotating station will most likely look like this

just daisy chain a few of those with a central axis that connects them, alternate the direction of spin in each section.
Also weren't O'Neil cylinder's supposed to be in connected pairs to cancel out that effect?

so this at its most basic

my dad got to be taught by Oneil in the 80s at MIT. Says he was a cool dude.

If it was small and fast enough. Then coriolis effect would pull your body to the surface. Making it feel like uphill or downhill

>There's a whole bunch of newage psychic bullshit in almost every gundam.
Only the first three and a quarter, and the one from a orbital colony is just stupidly lucky instead of a proper newtype.

Best Concept.

Newtypes, cyber new types, coordinators, innovades, Alaya-Vijnana System , zero system, what ever that shit in g fighter was

Anyone have a link to any actual calculations done for the o'neil cylinder beyond o'neil saying "yeah, I totally did some calcuations ;), and it should work"?

Is it a large enough scale that you can just approximate it as an infinite plane as far as material science goes?

Go ahead design how to launch it and ensamble it.

Ever heard of a sea dragon?

The mythological kind?

The rocket capable of a 550 ton payload to low earth orbit that used a simple lox and kerosene engine.

...

It's still a messy ensamble with a million things to go wrong, instead of a one piece thing that may actually survive on space and required one big launch and a couple of missions, not 5 years to build in space with no space elevator.

You can weld in space.
You can build more than one sea dragon, you could have it all up and in basically the same orbit in under an hour. Or you could be more conservative and just have daily launches.

"Where do the welders go, this sounds like it would take more than a single tank of air to get done. ?"
Bring up a habitation module. Given them a special tool that runs on tracks built into the design so that the welds are perfect.

>with a million things to go wrong
Literally two valves per launch, and a couple dozen explosive bolts. A few dozen launches. A handful of spacewalks.
There are far fewer components and things that can go wrong than the soyuz or space shuttle systems have.

>not 5 years to build in space with no space elevator.
>meme elevator
Traditionally, we limit ourselves to considering the design/engineering elements of orbital stations around earth. You should have told me we were talking about mars or the moon.

>instead of a one piece thing that may actually survive on space and required one big launch and a couple of missions
Just because it has the lifting power doesn't mean you can just fuck up its ballistics with absurd volumes.

Realistically these habitats can only be built by armies of robots and when that is available you can scale up the design enormously.

>Meanwhile, on the Veeky Forums O'Neil Cylinder...
... someone is testing the latest space suit fashion.

and the test results are in! For a 95 % decrease in survivability you can look like 500% more of a faggot!

Sold

Simple hoop stress.
Total radial outward force on the ring equals the mass of the ring times the centripetal acceleration. Plus the internal air pressure times the inner surface area.
Now, imagine a cutting plane bisecting the ring into two half-circles. PART of the total force is normal to that cutting plane and it's trying to pull the structure apart along the cut. It's the radial force computed above divided by 2 PI.
The combined cross-sections of the cuts have to have the tensile strength to resist that force.
You can see that (if the spin-gravity is held constant) the total force is proportional to the diameter of the ring. So the thickness of the shell must also increase in that proportion.
It works so long as the material is strong enough that the wall thickness is very thin compared to the overall diameter.

Can't you get around a pressure calculations by having 100 hydrogen tight whipple shields of like 20 guage with a pressure differential of 0.01atm across each layer?

youre forgetting nano carbano tubule structures with massive structural strength with miniscule thickness or depth.not sure about radiation shielding possibilities or micro meteroid deterrence but structures could be made and theoretically build with nanites.

dyson sphere