>>9459945

What's trans-racialism? Like that woman who was passing as a black woman and got elected to her chapter of the NAACP?

Clearly she's dismorphic/disporic whatever-the-hell the boys call it.

>Really makes you post.

BOOM

Doing god's work by questioning the insanity of the identity politics.

It wasn't because they thought she was crazy. It was because they thought she was being offensive to trans people.

You're not black if a good chunk of society isn't instantly afraid of you when they see you in an unpoliced public place. You just want to be black, which is a banal fantasy common to most white people (or other races) at one time or another.

I agree. But let me post the whole thing below this paragraph. The reason I keep posting it is that I never ever see anyone acknowledge it. I look at Reddit and see people asking stuff that can trivially be answered with, "It depends on how you define X". And when you point this out they (the people answering questions, not the naive laymen who ask) say, "Well of course you could trivially define X but we want to get at the TRUE meaning of X." Are these people snake oil pseudo intellectuals or are they genuinely stupid?

Why does nobody acknowledge that there are infinitely many possible philosophical axioms and infinitely many criteria for the judgement of these axioms?

It seems like once you realise this, all philosophical discussions become either laughable speculations about what the "true" definitions of concepts are (when these concepts are obviously arbitrarily defined); or, flailing about within the infinitely large space of unfalsifiable* conjectures. And the judgement of these speculations and conjectures is pretty much based on marketing.

I have never seen a worthwhile response to this. Can someone please give me an explanation?

* I mean we can't currently, at this moment, verify these things (e.g., We go to heaven after we die", "Once computers become fast enough, they will gain a consciousness"). And I know that science is merely a subset of philosophy. And I know there isn't an agreed upon scientific method. And i know there isn't an agreed upon definition of verify.

>I'm the guy who blah blah blah
literally who?
nobody cares man

it's a good argument that exposed transgenderism as bullshit, all the arguments against transracialism apply equally to transgenderism, if you shoot down one you kill the other, for better of worse, trannies need to deal with this

How are they dissimilar?
It's not the jokey helicopter defense. What is I weren't supposed to be born white?

Trans-anything is a mental disorder, not sole area of philosophy or any other humanities related field

was a reply to

so if i tattoo a giant swastika on shaved skull i'll be black? cool

Holy shit, you idiots, just read the fucking article. It's well-written, well-argued, and takes a spanner to the head of the current intellectual climate of the academic left, which I know is your favorite hobby horse.

Chee-rist.

read derrida and lacan and shut the fuck up

saw "nymag" and assumed it would be some ta-nehisi coates tier bluepill bullshit

It was she who was doing god's work, obviously. Even if she did not meant to do so.

You're not a hot woman if a good chunk of drunken rapists aren't instantly turned on by you when they see you in nice secluded spot. You just want to be a hot woman, which is a banal fantasy, maybe uncommon to most white people (or other races) at one time or another.

no one needs to read derrida or lacan

Well if you subscribe to the Patti Smith philosophy of Rock n Roll Nigga, yes. If that doesn't satisfy you let me qualify my previous post by saying people are instantly afraid as a result of your dark skin color.

You have me defending a position I don't occupy. I'm not there. You're shooting at a scarecrow. You morons.

when i see a black guy in an unpoliced public space i avoid him not because i think he's dangerous but because i expect him to pathetically ask me for spare change, which as an autistic white male i find extremely unpleasant

i'm not arguing with you or anyone else, i'm just saying if transgenderism is "real" then so is transracialism, if transracialism is bogus then so it transgenderism

Sounds like fear to me senpai

so what the fuck is 'trans racial'

So if I'm not afraid, people cease to be black? If a person is unpoliced in a forest, what color is their skin?

well i guess if you have a very broad definition of fear, i also avoid white people with pokemon t-shirts and fedora hats because they will probably say a bunch of awkward shit that makes me cringe, do i also fear them? i guess, but i think fear of failed humans has a valuable evolutionary function, so no shame in my game, nigger

This Trans-age-ism is a thing too. Re: all the other plastic surgery cases.

Yes I do consider the ability to turn people on a definitive trait of being "hot"

so then the black identity is based around being scary, if we were to civilize blacks to the point their they didn't commit the majority of rapes and murders anymore, it could actually be genocide!

Someone who's one race but claims to be another. Apparently the article from the OP-post pointed out that we should respect such claims just as we (they) respect the claims of transgenders. Which made a lot of people uncomfortable.

Yes race (as in black people) is a social construct but skin color (as in having black skin), although changeable to a degree, is physical fact

shut the fuck up bitch

>Space
>Using a metaphor to bear the weight of your claim
You're not doing philosophy right, user. No, I don't care what Heidegger said.

This is why you don't mix analytical philosophy with social politics, you sound like a goddamn retard

Genocide is killing people not rehabilitating them

but as you said the black identity is based around scared whites, so if blacks become non-scary it would be equivalent to genocide, like if all the jews in german converted to christianity they wouldn't have technically been killed but it would have been cultural genocide

I don't agree with you that black people need to change their behavior to be considered non threatening to most people, it's frankly not a problem they caused.

I'm having a hard time imagining anyone other than white teenage weaboos claiming a different race identity.

How the fuck do you even identify as another race, there are regional, cultural, and political components involved that are imposed upon you, not felt within you. Like transwomen who have no real skin in the game when it comes to women's suffrage, first wave feminism, etc. How is anyone other than a black person going to claim the black identity in America, where it is thrust upon the black person?
This can't be a very substantial movement

see

I see. So they have black skin, but aren't black. Does this go for people in say Ghana? Are they black? Or do they become black only if they move to America?

Boi I finna beat cho ass, show some respec

Yes people in Ghana are not black in the American sense until they find themselves in the presence of Americans.

this so much desu, also checking them

And it's not, because there isn't much desire in a community to dress up as blacks, the way the homosexual community celebrated drag queens.

I suspect "trans" are simply homosexuals who wish to be taken seriously as "normal".
I don't hate on the dears, I just want them to feel better. And not have to call them by the wrong pronoun

Do you not know the etymology of "black/white" race identity? It started in America during slave trade. Back then people were distinguished by nationality so they got into the habit of calling anyone with dark skin "black" and everyone else "white". That's it. Its only a few hundred years old and no one else in the world did it until relatively recently. There is no "black" or "white", just conversational laziness. It more or less works in America, but the America is not the world.

are you on twitter butterfly?

But you'd agree they are black in the Ghanan sense?
What if there are in mixed company? Say 50/50 Americans and non americans, are they black in the American sense or some sort of mulatto?

I'm not American and I find these things are interesting/amusing. The knots you tie yourselves in!

Disparities in the treatment of different races in America are FAR FAR wider than those of gender (not to diminish the struggles of transgender people).

Also consider this:
>Two white parents have a white kid.
>Kid says they identify as black as many kids identify a gender at a youngish age
>Transblack kid is raised by white parents who can't "raise him black"

Lets even say that the kid gets his skin turned black by some means. Like dark as fuck and everyone on sights is like "that kid is black"
>Basically leads the life of an adopted black son

I'm gonna say that getting your skin straight up turned black at a very young age is the only way you're gonna actually be able to claim you identify as black as in belonging to the black identity. Something integral to black identity in america being how one is treated by society at large based on their appearance.

Looking at gender:
>Two white parents have a kid
>Kid says "I'm a girl," despite having a dong
>Parents say "Aight" and raise her as a white girl

What happens when neither of them pass?
>Transgender woman doesn't pass as a woman, what they claim their identity to be
>Treated as transgender woman, people don't default to treating a transwoman who doesn't "pass" like a normal dude. They're treated as an other. they're denied their chosen identity and simultaneously not allowed the comfort of their "original" heteronormative position

>Transracial kid doesn't pass
>"Oh its a white dude with a tan"

You're trying really hard to make that word mean something that it can't mean.
It's a social abstraction, put the yardstick away.

>none of these niggas have read trick baby

americans are all mutts who gives a fuck

As suggested I don't even know if there's such a thing as black in the Ghanaian sense, but if there is it's certainly derived from the American social construct. While I'm sure most people in Ghana are aware of American conceptions of race through globalization, I doubt they are as preoccupied about it because Americans and white Europeans aren't very common there.

In mixed company? To the Americans the Ghanaians are black. I've already more than exhausted my meager knowledge of Ghana so I don't know what the Ghanaians think, but that doesn't matter too much under the American context in which transracialism occurs.

>transblack kids didn't grow up black

but this is a line of attack used by feminists against the trans community, they say the person grew up with male privilege and then chose to become female, so when they turned 16 and watched to much and anime and decided they wanted to suck a bunch of cocks doesn't erase all the formative years where they experienced male privilege, so even if they get filled to the gils with hormones they're still going to "think like a man"

Twitter
Real Peer Review
Actual, genuine, literal, verifiable, serious academic articles.
One is about watching "The Batchelor" with the author's friends.
See also Alan Sokal's "Fashionable Nonsense" and David Gelerter's "America Lite."

The question is not of practicality, but of philosophical arguments for or against transgenderism and transraciality.

so what if a black guy grows up to be transasian? we've all seen those black weebs, maybe he truly believes himself to be a jap, but he grew up "black", what does it mean to "grow up black"? you're not really black if your parents didn't smoke weed in front of you and black rap music all the time?

So I haven't checked Twitter in a while, who's winning the culture war this month?

ON THE SOCIAL CONSTRUCTION OF GENDER, RACE AND THE TRANS PHENOMENON: the blog post

Gender
This term refers to the state of being biologically male, or female. The manner in which biological sex informs behavioural patterns is the only objective facet of gender and we know very little about it. The extent to which it is socially constructed is twofold: the basis of the categorisation in itself and the negotiation of gender roles.

It is entirely plausible to conclude that our attempt at categorising humans through gender is restrictive. There could be biological sets of inputs that are more conclusive in identifying behavioural patterns that are more relevant descriptors of our social nature. This hypothesis however, does not deny the objective reality of gender (to be read as - the manner in which biological sex informs behavioural patterns), but would merely render gender as poor basis for categorisation. Being that biological sexes are objective categories intrinsic to our reproductive capabilities, one can see the seductive usefulness of attempting to categorise humans by gender.

Transgender-ism is also plausible. Whether biological (atypical chromosomal configurations that render behavioural outputs characteristic of the opposite sex), or social (inadequacies with regards to one's understanding of his/her gender roles), transgender-ism can be legitimized both ways. However, social transgender-ism, as defined above, is a lie (I do concede that it can be a beneficial one for some) and should not be rushed until maturity, while biological transgenderism is not really defined, although imaginable.

What is certainly not legitimate, is the construction of other genders with no biological basis. Transgender activism should focus solely on attacking strict gender roles, rather than adopting other categories based on the very socially prescribed criteria they are claiming to fight against.

Race
In the same manner as gender, race can be construed as socially constructed to a certain extent: the basis for categorisation and the negotiation of racial roles.

Once again, it is entirely plausible to envision a better set of biological criteria for races. Unlike gender, races as described today, do not have as strong a biological foundation - racial distinctions are not predicated on anything intrinsic to the interaction of two biological organisms (as is reproduction in the case of gender), so categorising humans as such is not quite as seductively useful as gender.

Unlike transgender-ism, transracial-ism cannot have a biological basis and is purely social. Much like transgenders, '''''''''''''transracial''''''''' people should be focusing on fighting strict racial roles as their transitioning is unjustified.

>See also Alan Sokal's "Fashionable Nonsense" and David Gelerter's "America Lite."

also see the guys who used an algorithm to write get a paper published in a stem journal, you think science isn't just as full of shit? if you follow any stem news you know fake papers and fraudulent peer review gets uncovered all the time

this is too difficult i'm gonna go read Americanah in the park to recharge my woke levels

Is this stuff why you keep shooting each other?

>Gender
>This term refers to the state of being biologically male, or female.

wow man first line is already objectively wrong, way to start off! lol i don't know which side you're going to argue on but if you don't know the most basic definitions of relevant terms then it's not going to be good

THAT'S WHAT YOU GET FOR SPECIALIZING IN THIS AREA

Why is it wrong?

come on bro, doesn't your community college offer an intro to sex and sexuality class? or it is one of those really shitty schools in trump country that just trains people to be plumbers and to repair air conditioners?

hey user by your own lights what does "sex and sexuality" have to do with gender huh????

I'm half black/half asian
no cultural conflicts desu

it doesn't really offer classes on any of those '''''disciplines''''''. Read on, or don't, appreciate your like, opinion on facts, though.

No. Why anyone is confuses and disappoints me.

is it weird being blasian? any noteworthy peculiarities to that state of being? i've heard traditional asians tend to be really racist against blacks, for example

sex is biological, gender is cultural... come on mr. """""""""""" i thought u were smarter than that, i am dissapoint

When I was younger, and living in a different country, I used to often pretend to be a different race. I guess I've got a natural aversion to speaking English in non-English countries, and to the banal loudness of American tourists, so I'd often fake an Italian or French ancestry around them to avoid having to talk with them or simply for my own amusement.

At another point in my life, I was working at a hotel owned and largely frequented by Jews. My actual ethnicity (as far as that could even be considered a real thing) is a heavily Judiazed branch of Christianity, so I have a Jewish last name, which I would often blatantly wear while donning the metaphysical attire of a Jew, which hugely improved the way Zionists (not all Jews are zionists, but most zionists are despicable racists) treated me.

After this, I lived in Brazil for a time, and to avoid getting robbed, harassed, killed, or any of the other things that happen to gringos there, I again donned the identity of a latino and tried to fake an Argentinian or Italian accent.

My actual ancestry is very removed from me, being both ethnically mixed and growing up in a family of first generation immigrants, so I've always regarded it with the lofty apathy of a devout Nietzschean. Being a first gen immigrant it's not as if I haven't gotten my share of insults, taunts, and even systemic bullying, but without an ethnic megalith to petition on my behalf like Latinos or Jews have, I've never been given any sort of recognized victims status, special benefits, scholarships, or anything like that, nor would I want to as I find those things somewhat deplorable.

To SJW, who's don't care about being good people so much as forcing others to acknowledge what good people they are, there's really no benefit in giving a fuck about non-visible minorities, and they prefer to instead stick me with the label of "privileged white male" (as if being a privileged white female/tranny faggot somehow gives them the right to any sort of higher ground) as a kind of political rhetoric.

All of this, and maybe a childhood wasted being an anonymous poster on Veeky Forums, has left me with a complete distaste of identarianism in all its forms. I've always felt there must be a vast ethnicity of people whom feel absolutely nothing, or even a dislike, for their heritage, but have been bullied into silence. The only identity I can respect is civic nationalism, in the vein of Socrates. Someone who's willing to transgress the banality of the masses, for the sake of the state, and the heroic individual who rather than being shaped by his political-historical circumstances utilizes it through artistic endeavor to shape society himself.

The Futurists, Pierre Trudeau, Napoleon Bonaparte, these are the real heroes of our age. All the Barak Obama's, Donald Trumps, and Gay Pride rallies of the world are just the miserable noise on the unwashed masses.

I partly agree. but the basis of gender is biological and modulated through culture. You should probably read on and see where you actually disagree.

It's a meaningless distinction only pushed by those with an agenda.

Hence the basis of gender is sex.

Yup, no disagreements there.

No? I mean I don't really have a point of comparison and I live in SoCal so race isn't a big deal anyways, and it never has been to me. My sister identifies more heavily with her races than I do, so she'd probably tell you different but it's really not anything I consider part of my "identity". I consider race to be who I am in a social context rather than an existential context.

But yeah, most asian immigrants are super fucking racist. They're more racist than white people, but less likely to be confrontational or even vocal about it because it's more of them picking up on American stereotypes than their upbringing. It's just ignorant racism rather than the ignorant/hateful combo. A lot of my friends are asian and their parents always warm up to me after a short while

This is the most neo-colonialist thing I've read all day. Well done, racist user

>it's more of them picking up on American stereotypes than their upbringing
keep dreaming, senpai
try visiting your asian ancestral country

I did, I was practically a celebrity. A lady wanted me to marry her daughter.

How does oppression make one trans more legitimate?

I guess there's no point at which they're going to stop and say "ok, we got everything we wanted". There are only two ways this can end.

This is a terrible argument. Do you not believe in math for the same reason?

Axioms by definition are infinitely possible - any statement can serve as an axiom to an interpretative system of signs. If we wanted to, we could construct a new mathematics where after 100, numbers roll over back to 0. Therefore, big numbers would be impossible. We can codify this axiom with a combination of others that make arithmetic possible, and from there we can tease out the logical implications of such a system. The problem is, this isn't useful. What is this system going to help us describe? Is it going to show us something about the properties of numbers that we hadn't realized before? Probably not, considering I just chose this axiom arbitrarily.

The same goes in philosophy. I can assert that "I have actually been dead for 8,000 years and my current experience is actually a flashback" but philosophy can only begin when I try to find the implications of this. But, in my positing of a world "above" mine coupled with a distrust of the sensible world I experience, this investigation will only remain a conjecture of things that by definition I can't see. So, even while the assumption may be "true," from a philosophical point of view it is useless since it precludes any ability to discuss it.

No thought is possible without base-level assumptions. If we are going to replace these assumptions, no matter how obvious they might seem at first, the only result we have to measure them is how far our investigation "goes."

are you the nietzsche expert who posted some threads a while back on him?

but what about india havent they be separating people for centuries using skin colour

>If we wanted to, we could construct a new mathematics where after 100, numbers roll over back to 0. Therefore, big numbers would be impossible. >We can codify this axiom with a combination of others that make arithmetic possible, and from there we can tease out the logical implications of such a system. The problem is, this isn't useful. What is this system going to help us describe? Is it going to show us something about the properties of numbers that we hadn't realized before? Probably not, considering I just chose this axiom arbitrarily.
This is your brain on liberal arts.

Oh, another 'can't distinguish gender/race from gender/racial roles, so I'll expand on my confusion according to my political leaning' thread.

Gender in the west is predicated upon sex and modulated by culture. The ladyboy example are descriptive of places where gender is predicated upon culture, but modulated by sex.

explain

Is this what our future will come to? Until everything's a spectrum?

I'll read the article later and add my sauce, but if it's true that she isn't criticizing and instead arguing that race is a spectrum; well, I guess it's time for another holocaust then.

B-but it's a cultural construct! That means it gets to be whatever I want!