Terraforming Mars

How would you go on about it?

Here's an idea I had.
How hard would it be to genetically engineer some sort of algae(I'm thinking about the canadian elodea) or any sort of plant that grows quickly to be able to survive on Mars?
We could mass drop the seeds on the ground and wait for all the CO2 to get converted.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape
youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY
youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Send a lot of braphogs there to brrapp methane to warm it up.

>Mars
lolno. Terraform Venus, keep Mars as a big mine. Humans live in orbital stations, robots and temporary maintenance workera maintain the Martian Mines. Eventually we get fusion and terraform Venus and live in orbital stations are gas giants.

venus is gay tho

>How would you go on about it?
You don't.
Mars has less gravity than earth, so you end up needing something like 9+ times more atmosphere than earth has in order to have 1atm of pressure.
So you have to import a few billion fucktons of gas.

And all of your efforts will be pointless because it will be blown away within 10,000 years (earth estimates are invalid, the martian atmosphere would stretch out many times further out than earth's does). Yeah, a highway from mars to jupiter would solve it easily, but resources are finite you nigger faggot. Yeah, you could make a synthetic magnetic field, but that only slows the loss. No loss is better than any loss.

>that grows quickly to be able to survive on Mars?
>We could mass drop the seeds on the ground and wait for all the CO2 to get converted.
See above as to why carelessly pissing away a finite resource is a bad idea.


Mars colonies will be underground. Mars will be domed over, and then turned into a shell world. The original surface will likely never be terraformed, the layers above and below it certainly will be. Howver, you don't need any genetic engineering to do that.

>And all of your efforts will be pointless because it will be blown away
elaborate please. I have never heard of this before.

Mars has no magnetic field. The solar wind strips off atmosphere.
That's in addition to Mars' lower gravitational potential; a certain fraction (small at any given time) of it's molecules achieve escape velocity.

Details at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_escape

o hecc. There go my mars dreams then. Venus seems like a better option.

every single person on earth is burning natural gas/petroleum that is just dug out of the ground in an attempt to "terraform" Earth
And we haven't done even 1% of the atmosphere

I don't think any of you retards understand the scales you are talking about

Venus is no picnic either.
Even if you miraculously got rid of most of it's atmosphere and spun up it's rotation to something approximating Earth's, its radiation equilibrium temperature would be about 150F.
See for the calculation or to view the entire thread.

sunshades.

I find genetic engineering good in obtaining ANY food.

>How would you go on about it?
Before I began terraforming mars I would work on irrigating the underutilized Earth terrain.

Terraforming is a meme and you don't need nor you should wait for the arcane technology that allows it to be developed before colonizing anything. Getting used to the environment is the best course of action.

>let the subhumans grow so that they waste resources even more exponentially
... Only if we solve the problem of bad blood once and for all.

>Spend huge amounts of energy escaping Earth's gravity well.
>Proceed to throw yourself down another one.

Stick with rotating habitats. No reasonable amount of work is going to fix the low gravity on Mars anyway.

And what if we don't want to settle for shitty conditions?

>No reasonable amount of work is going to fix the low gravity on Mars anyway.
That's half of the appeal.
Excercise daily in the rotating cone that generates 1.1G, and then sleep in the rotating cone that generate 0.9g

How to Terraform Mars

Goal: Human beings living and reproducing on Mars, breathing in open atmosphere at close to 1g.

Step 1: Bring all asteroids, comets, and most moons of the solar system to Mars and slam them into Mars with as much velocity as possible at roughly the same moment in time.
Wait time: This will depend on the technology level. Most likely 100-500 years.

Step 2: Wait for Mars' geological processes to calm down as well as for debris in the system to settle so space travel through the solar system and to Mars can begin again.
Wait time: Geological processes should calm enough in only 100,000-200,000 years, but space debris may take up to as long as 10,000 years to properly settle enough to be navigable.

Step 3: Inoculate Mars with bacteria, fungi, and other extremophiles, to begin biosphere transformation.
Wait time: Earliest estimate would be 50,000 years if continually inoculated. Longest estimate 300,000 years.

Step 4: Introduction or larger flora and fauna for faster biosphere transformation.
Wait time: 1,000 to 2,000 years

Step 5: Open-air Colonization begins in earnest.
Total time from beginning to colonization: 151,100 to 502,500 years.

NOTE: Self-contained biospheres can be constructed during Step 3. Colonists can live on the planet at that time since gravity will be as close to 1g as possible by that time. There won't be an atmosphere yet so everything will need to be self-contained. While Open-air Colonization could begin during Step 4, the reason for the wait time is to ensure the atmosphere and biosphere of the planet is properly stable over the long term. Without Step 1, there won't be enough gravity for healthy humans.

>Mars
>colonization

JELLO BABIES!!!
JELLO BABIES!!!
JELLO BABIES!!!

Here, here!

>Without Step 1, there won't be enough gravity for healthy humans.
citation needed

Your plan is even worse than "ay lameo terraform mars"

>t. jello baby

we already agree with the marsifiication of human race. we had this disscusion past week. Plans are already in motion.

Exercise and sleep in earth normal gravity should be sufficient. One can use a rotating cone to generate earth normal gravity.

Why do that when you can do it in space and not have to deal with all that shit? Spinning something in micro gravity is far more efficient than spinning something in gravity. Why leave Earth's gravity well only to jump into another one? That's not logical. If you need resources, use robots/drones AI or remote controlled.

True. But the shade would have to be at the L1 point (actually, a trifle closer to the Sun to counteract light pressure). It would need active control since the point is unstable and would have to be very very very large.
Still, I supposed that's a minor issue compared with dealing with the atmosphere and rotation rate.

Frankly, I don't know which world sounds more depressing. I miss the SF of the '40s and '50s.

>I miss the SF of the '40s and '50s.

I really like E. E. Smith's stuff.

I believe that all people were created by God but some of them have taken Satan's culture instead. It's not the bad blood that has to go, it's the bad culture.
>tfw you are absolutely sure that indeed you do treat other people how you would like to be treated

>How would you go on about it?
Don't. Excavate subterranean caverns and build huge pressurized domes in them, connected by tunnels. Mars is geologically stable and the low gravity means you can increase the scale of your construction. It's also close to the asteroid belt, so it would benefit from an established industry there.

Building better habitats will provider better (living) conditions than some ridiculous terraforming projects that are inherently useless.

>You don't
This is the only correct reply. Terraforming Mars is science FICTION.

>Building better habitats will provider better (living) conditions
I agree

You can do all you want after you go back to europe. America belongs to Amerindians the same as europe belongs to europeans. How is this hard to get?

>Humans live in orbital stations
Why not DOMES like in The Expanse?

We don't need 1 atmosphere on Mars. We need just enough so that the water doesn't boil at body temperature.

Domes are sci-fi. It'll be like the greenhouses of Almeria. Low height and wide. They may be on top of a huge block of buildings though. Just no big ass domes and shit.

Sorry that we spread your genetics dozens of thousands of times better you could have ever hoped for with your paleonigger culture, intelegence, and technology.
Either way, America for Americans, not indians.

You actually need ~0.3atm to not have chronic delirium. That is far above the ~0.09atm that you think you need.

Breathing apparatus is a given. The most important step would be to have just enough atmosphere so that the most hardened plants (bio-engineered if necessary) can survive.

You can't have a breathing apparatus feeding gas to you at a significantly higher pressure than the outside pressure. That's how you get the bends.

In that scenario, you'd still need a pressurized suit.

Wrong. Amerindians had a higher development rate compared to europeans. In other words Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans. How is this even a question?

Mount Everest is 0.3327atm and water should boil around 159.97F there.

At 98.6F water would boil at about 0.0699atm.

Mars' is at about 0.0059atm, water boiling at about 23.06F.

If it could be raised to 0.085atm then the boiling point of 105.18F should be about perfect for all human activities. You'd need to breath air with a mask though.

You'd be using an open air mask. That's one that isn't pressurized. It's just adding extra oxygen to the air in the breather, but is vented and leaking air the entire time in inhale. It just ensure the mix is right. Kind of like the air mixture thing on a gas stove.

My biggest concern with that is the low pressure and its affects on your body. Not the water problem. As in, how low can your eyes take before you get something like VIIPs. I'm sure it'll be pretty quick when compared to getting VIIPs from the low gravity on Mars.

Couldn't you simply strap a mask to your face to feed you the pressurized air?

Think about how that would feel to breath and exhale if your mask was pressurized and the outside wasn't. Pressurized air would inflate your lungs forcefully (1 atm is about 14 pounds per square inch) and exhaling would be like letting an elastic balloon deflate.

Open air mask puts you back at 0.09 atm which isn't comfortable. You also can't live on only 0.09 atm of pure O2 in your lungs. That partial pressure is too low to deliver livable amounts of O2.

You could apply mechanical pressure to your torso to help with breathing.

>ay lameo a few dozen thousand people made an earthen work structure out of stone, a garbage calendar, and then stagnated for another two thousand years.
Lots of... potential.

I recommend you try taking your argument to

Wrong.
>europeans:
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to solutrean:10000 years (30000BC-20000BC)
>from aurignacian-antelian to neolithic: 15000 years(30000BC-15000BC)
>from neolithic proto-agriculture societies to neolithic revolution: 6000 years (15000BC-9000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to copper and arsenical bronze: 4000 years (9000BC-5000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to bronze age and tin bronze: 5200 years (9000BC-3800BC)

>Amerindians:
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to clovis: 4000 years (15000BC-11000BC)
>from aurignacian proto-gravettian to the start of crop development: 7000 years (15000BC-8000BC)
>from neolithic proto-agriculture societies to neolithic revolution: 5000 years (8000BC-3000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to copper and arsenical bronze independently: 2000 years (3000BC-1000BC)
>from neolithic revolution to bronze age and tin bronze: 4000 years (3000BC-1000 AD)
Amerindians had a higher development rate compared to europeans. In other words, Amerindians have more civilization potential than europeans.

You can stop this argument the moment you decide, brainlet. Truth stomps misinformation anytime.

...

>wait 500,000 years
Literally no one has that kind of patience.

May as well just have a pressurized suit at that point.

Why? Pressurized suit is worse in every aspect.

You misunderstand the complexities of not having a suit and actually living in such low pressure. Being able to absorb the O2 will be only 1 of many deadly things to work around. Just like how 0.377g is going to cause all manner of bad health issues for everyone.

you don't need to spin up Venus' rotation at all. in fact slow rotation helps, because it would cause an increased albedo on the sunside.

and you could convert the Venusian atmosphere with a large amount of hydrogen. either the bosch or sabatier reaction would convert the whole thing to water and carbon/methane. from there, just let it cool down, and you'd already have an earthlike planet with oceans of h2o. terraforming from there would be easy mode.

I always find orbital habitats to be resource intensive, as they need a constant supply of water and resources to function. Would overpowered recycling solve this issue?

>as they need a constant supply of water
... Gramps, you knbow they can make watertight containers now, right?
Canteens no longer need to wet to seal. We also don't make them out of wood anymore.

>Would overpowered recycling solve this issue?
yes, they would use highly efficient recycling. they could also use redundant life support systems to secure against breakdowns.

>Domes and greenhouses
Why not hydroponics and vertical farming? It can be fitted inside buildings and arcologies, and their energy need can be satisfied by one of the few or more fusion reactors powering a city.

nump

If you have the power then that is quite fine. Especially since there's yet another problem,

>The Mars rover Curiosity has allowed us to finally calculate an average dose over the 180-day journey. It is approximately 300 mSv, the equivalent of 24 CAT scans. In just getting to Mars, an explorer would be exposed to more than 15 times an annual radiation limit for a worker in a nuclear power plant.

First superconducting magnet Mars Sun L1 orbit. This will generate a magnetic field that will shield Mars from solar and Cosmic radiation. Allowing for natural rapid atmosphere rebuilding. This station can also be an orbital colony.

Meanwhile asteroids and comets will be redirected into Mars at the poles. Which will add needed water and gases. Once atmospheric pressure is built up to half atmosphere. Then surface colonization in domes can begin. Comets and asteroids will continue to be directed into Martian poles. Not to build up atmosphere but to add more water.

>satisfied by one of the few or more fusion reactors

Well there's your problem. We don't even have fusion reactors here on earth.

Domes make sense on a planet with low atmospheric pressure because they can be self supported structures under the internal pressure, at least partially. Spherical shapes would be stronger for their mass and have a smaller surface to volume ratio, therefore taking less space. If we need a large buffer of spare atmosphere this is the way to go, but whether it will be a practical use of space for humans to use and fill with machinery is another problem entirely.

Development is not driven by race, but by culture. The fact that western humanity entered the renaissance proves that our culture is suited to fast development, but the lack of renaissance in amerindian history doesn't prove anything either way.

>15 times an annual radiation limit for a worker in a nuclear power plant
That's still not that much, not that I'd want to receive that dose if I didn't have to. It's also the annual dose, meaning if you take a trip to Mars less than once every 15 years you'll be under that limit. The curiosity rover also didn't have the amount of radiation shielding a manned mission would have, though I'm not sure if they took that into account when calculating the radiation dose.

Fission reactors are fine provided you have the facilities to handle and dispose of radioisotopes. Thorium breeders almost eliminate the need for careful handling of the fuel in the first place, and since mars is essentially space australia, I don't think we'll have a lack of places to store nuclear waste any time within the next million years. Also technically we do have some very primitive fusion reactors, but they don't generate power.

I like how you picked California. Where they import water from other states and about 70% of it just evaporates because they can't into covered ditches. Yep let's irrigate that shit, problem solved

user, that's spic land. American spic land and spic spic land are different places.
t. califag

My bad, not a native amerifag

>Development is not driven by race, but by culture.
this. and some cultures are better than others.

>When writing your hard sci-fi novel becomes more challenging.

>Mars has less gravity than earth, so you end up needing something like 9+ times more atmosphere than earth has in order to have 1atm of pressure.
And you took that out of your arse.
You "only" need an atmospheric mass about equal to the one we have in Earth (perhaps even a little bit smaller).

A working formula that gives estimates for rocky planets, based on ideal gas law. (don't try to use it for extreme atmospheres like the Venusian one)

[math]M_{a} = \frac{kPr^{4}}{M_{p}}[/math]

k is a constant ( ~1.883e+11 )
Ma = Mass of the atmosphere (kg)
Mp = Mass of the entire planet (kg)
r = radius of planet (meters)

You can try with the current Earth and Mars known values to check it. Then try getting the 1 atm for Mars.
It is totally not 9 times the terrestrial atmosphere mass. More like 0.9 times.

It is a lot of gas anyway. It should probably be made directly on Mars, not exported (that sounds stupid)

And yeah, it needs a magnetic field.

Why don't we just take over Africa?
>Already has oxygen
>Doesn't require a rocket to get there
>Already has plant life
>Already has liquid water
>Current life-forms are too dumb to stop us
>Other countries won't act since they don't care about Africa and are scared of our nukes

>You "only" need an atmospheric mass about equal to the one we have in Earth
I didn't mean in terms of mass. I did the math a few years ago, and iirc the ~9 comes from the proportional range of the atmosphere relative to the diameter. It's relevant because it increases the rate at which loss occurs.
I think I may have assumed no additional heating as well.

domes dont solve the gravity issue, rotating space stations do

This.
Making a new magnetic field isn't worth the effort
Not to mention the soil there is still gonna be radioactive
Then you have the problem of getting enough water and oxygen

But if we can deal with global warming on earth, then we might produce some technology in the process which can reduce the greenhouse effect on Venus
We also might be able to develop bacteria which can survive there and gradually produce a more livable environment

we already tried this (South Africa, Rhodesia, etc.). it didn't work because DATS RACIST!!!. of course those countries went to shit without their white overlords, but that's another discussion. the Chinese are meddling there as well.

>Development is not driven by race, but by culture.

As usual, liberals deny scientific reality

First thing get magnetic field going again, after that crack a shitload of comets to get some atmosphere

That has been thought of..

I always thought about "what would happen if" we were to build a big ol octagon dam in the Australian outback desert.
Just a big concrete octagon about 100~200ft / 30~60m tall, with the top at the same elevation all the way around, encompassing 1/3 of that desert; and then pipeline a desalinated water in from the coast to fill it.

Would Australia become a green paradise after a decade or so?
They'd have lots of water to fight those fires then.

The Americas belong to no one if we turn the clock back far enough.
The "First Nations" of the Americas came over from Asia by the Bering Straight land bridge and possibly by Polynesian boat people in South America.
Either way, no naturally occurring humans evolved in the Americas to our knowledge.
So America (the continents) goes to whomever can claim & hold it.

>triggered

>Why don't we just take over Africa?
Do you know how hot it is in Africa? And it's full of shit that's had the most possible amount of time to evolve to eat me.
There's no Ebola on mars. Or hook worms. Or any of the billions of other reasons you can find in my book: Reasons Africa can go fuck itself.
And for the record Toto is not mentioned in the book.
youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY

Stop sticking to your useless, mortal skin. Develop AI, all worlds now habitable, no terraforming needed.

Australia has dead soil. In addition to water, you'd need some way to add nutrients to the soil. The Sahara has good soil, it just needs water. Start there.

>dead soil
That's odd, everywhere it gets rained on it grows like a hot damn.
And I'm talking about a miniature fresh water sea inside of Australia, to see how that affects both local & overall global climate.

L1 is unstable, and you are advocating the use of what amounts to a planet sized solar sail in L1...
People like you need should have your souls weighed down by gravity.

>solar sail
Did you even look at the posted image for more than 1/30th of a second m8?

Almeria is on Earth and enjoys 1 bar atmosphere, those greenhouses aren't pressurized.

Nigger slaves don't need 1 bar of pressure. 0.1 should be enough.

>That's still not that much

It means that you won't have greenhouses due to the radiation. You'd need to shield the plants from the radiation and in doing so the light they get isn't going to grow good plants. Meaning, you'd certainly need to use grow lights no matter what. Once Mars had a good atmosphere for human breathing and have radiation shielding, you'd still have the problem of not having enough light for proper plant growth. Which seriously fucks up people's terraforming dreams. The thicker atmosphere makes that worse.

Here's a check list of why Mars fucking sucks,

0.377g of 1g: JELLO BABIES!!! JELLO BABIES!!! JELLO BABIES!!!
44% of light compared to Earth: Not enough to grow your own food.
Temps are Min −226F, Mean −82F, Max 95F: Too cold most of the time in most places.
Surface pressure is 0.00628 atm: Ever see ending scenes of the original movie Total Recal?
Air is 96% carbon dioxide, 1.93% argon and 1.89% nitrogen along with traces of oxygen and water.

>terraform Mars

Mate, do you even understand what a force is?

>"Magnetosails, solar sails, what's the difference?"

Jello babies is a fucking stupid argument because all tests are based on 0g, which is a whole world away from 0.37g in terms of biological function. But granted, we have no idea what will happen until a roastie pops one out on Mars. Everything else on that list can be compensated for in enclosed habitats.

introduce:
- extremophiles and water
- progressively more normal microbes and more water
- fungi and even more water
- small plants
- larger plants
- small animals
all throughout I'd be pumping out oxygen, carbon dioxide, and any non-threatening greenhouse gases available
kind of this, Venus is more suitable in terms of mass, but we'd need to not just add atmosphere but take away the fucktons of sulfur in the existing atmosphere, and deal with the sulfur in the surface, and cool down the surface, and deal with a wonky day-night cycle

Honestly It would required a tremendous amount of work. Thus workforce to perform such work is a must. I would say that between 20-25 is a good start. I would honestly start by Scheduling 3 trips.
> Each trip is 5-9 people.
> A significant amount of resources will be needed. So probably periodically delivers of food & water must be schedule either ahead or before hand.
> Sending Tools, materials ahead.

I would start by constructing domes. 1 dome per crew is a good start. The goal will be for the first 3 crews to construct at least 5 domes. Including one that is able to sustain food with controlled soil and bioengineering.

Such domes have to be interconected. After the crew is stabilized with solid supply of food and water. The next step would be to figure out how to make the planet capable of sustaining life and developing flora.

I would start small. Maybe by starting an expedition to locate the appropiate place. That is big enough and easy enough to start a project of flora incorporation. My first idea would be look for a cave. A cave big enough that makes it easy to isolate from the outside and that can have at least a good size. I would prepare the soil and isolate everything to the most possible extend. I would pump the necesary gases needed and i would probably monitor the whole area with A.I or machine learning that keeps control at all times of the conditions. pt1

pt2
the objective of this is to create a self sustaining mini "forest".Once this is achieve more of these project will be done to obtain relative safe heavens if shit goes bad. This is probably going to take 5 years and im talking about starting to see everything grow at least more than a meter in height. 10 years have passed and the forest starting to look good.

Okay 2-3 Mini forest in caves were obtained and about 20-25 domes are created sustating at least 200 people. Time to figure out how to create the right atmostphere. Now we have to take in account that 20 yrs of advances have elapse in Earth. So who knows what type of new things are going to be available.

Okay now lets think about mars. What are the characteristics of the fields? what are the gases present? How is the panorama?. Having answers to these questions is a good start to figure out what type of flora to incorporate. I would go to the most similar place on earth that resembles mars and then i would take note of the plants and the way the overcome the weather. Choose a suitable one and engineer it.

If you hold up a magnet up to another magnet, you'll notice that you feel them either pulling or pushing towards each other.
If a mag field deflects a particle, the particle puts the same force back onto the source of the magnetic field.

They are the same, you are a brainlet.
Here is a neat video for your consideration: youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM

>I would start by constructing domes.

Domes are a meme, they dont provide radiation shielding. Any colony will have to be mostly underground.

There is a lot of fantastic and incredibly strong leaded glass on the market that is used for radiation shielding. I don't see why it couldn't be repurposed for a dome.