Psychiatry

What about *violent* crazy people?

Maybe "treat" them if they actually commit a crime or behave violently.
Psychiatrists can't be trusted to determine insanity without an incredible number of false positives.
If you get locked up that's it as far as they are concerned, you're branded crazy until you display "insight" as determined by them. They give people with non-psychotic disorders antipsychotics which cause side effects like akathisia. They pace and feel like jumping out of their skin, resist injections, then those symptoms are misconstrued as psychotic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosenhan_experiment

>I was recently detained involuntarily myself, and it was shit. Depression was the diagnosis
Same. I came to the hospital voluntarily, then was involuntarily detained for three weeks. I saw people injected for non-violently refusing medication. They used ECT as a threat and let people remain ignorant of the maximum legal detention time, legality of involuntary ECT, etc.
After being involuntarily detained (and without knowledge of the laws) there is an assumption that you may be kept there indefinitely. In fact this requires regular hearings in front of a judge, but of course they won't tell you this.

What do they gain by detaining you longer? Or treating you frivolously? That's all wasted resources for them.

I still wonder about that. Perhaps justification of funding. I went to a public psych ward.

Well if someone commits a crime then surely they should be held responsible as an adult.

>I came to the hospital voluntarily, then was involuntarily detained for three weeks.
Fair. I was taken in involuntarily. In total I was there for like 9 weeks.

>I saw people injected for non-violently refusing medication.
Interesting. I never saw anybody pinned down and injected, but I knew of people who had injections, but I think they complied with it. One guy told me he had previously been pinned down and injected though - he had been in and out of psych hospitals his whole life.

>They used ECT as a threat and let people remain ignorant of the maximum legal detention time, legality of involuntary ECT, etc.
Was this in the US? Here in the UK, involuntary ECT is illegal, unless they deem it necessary to save your life, which apparently happens.

>Well if someone commits a crime then surely they should be held responsible as an adult.
But taking measures to prevent a crime is bad?

If somebody hasn't committed a crime, what right do you have to lock them up?

By all means offer people help. But give them a choice.

Australia.

>Informed consent must be gained by the person, if able to do so. If the person is not able to consent (for example is unresponsive or is severely delusional), the psychiatrist will seek independent authority from the mental health authority in that state (often called the Guardianship Board) to proceed in the person’s best interests, in consultation with family or carers – and taking any advance directives (e.g. the person’s previously stated wishes) into account.

If you look at the wording of this you can see how they get away with it. "Severely delusional": entirely dependent on the psychiatrist's assessment. "In consultation with family or carers": their wishes aren't legally relevant in the slightest.

>One guy told me he had previously been pinned down and injected though - he had been in and out of psych hospitals his whole life.
Yeah, I saw plenty of people who had been in and out repeatedly. You get admitted once and receive a case worker afterwards. Miss an appointment with them and you risk readmission, unlike with a private psychiatrist. Mine still calls my parents to check if they have heard from me, fuck knows what she would do if there was no one to call.

Cool to see there are others. I too have been involuntarily detained and injected, I was at my local hospital for like 2 weeks and it was terrible. I'm not even being biased but I know I'm not that bad at all, It's mainly been my parents who have overreacted and forced me to go. Damn psychiatrists have deluded them past the point of no return

>Informed consent must be gained by the person, if able to do so. If the person is not able to consent (for example is unresponsive or is severely delusional), the psychiatrist will seek independent authority from the mental health authority in that state (often called the Guardianship Board) to proceed in the person’s best interests, in consultation with family or carers – and taking any advance directives (e.g. the person’s previously stated wishes) into account.
That seems better than here in Britain though. Over here you don't have to be delusional to detain you - they'll do it if they think you could be a threat to yourself or others, or if they think you've lost capacity. They thought I had lost capacity, even though I don't think I did. I was angry and agitated, but that's about it. I never lost touch with reality at all.

Yeah it sucks that your family are like "they're doctors, they must know what they're doing". But it's just bullshit in my view.

I barely think the psychiatrists know what they're doing. I've only ever trusted one out of the many I've seen, and just barely at that. Fuck them, they basically get paid to read the side of a medication bottle

Illegal drugs are far much more solution for their problems.

Research purposes.

>Over here you don't have to be delusional to detain you - they'll do it if they think you could be a threat to yourself or others, or if they think you've lost capacity.
That quote was about using ECT. They can still detain you here for exactly those reasons.

I think the therapy n stuff can help sometimes but the more we learn about neural networks and neuroscience + computational consciousness, psychology will be seen more like philosophy and will be used in the case of diagnosing. But for now there's nothing as good as it to replace it so I don't think its a joke field.

Diagnostics are predictions done by a person performing observations by the best manner. Besides that the doctors i have met are some really fucked up induviduals that surge their own shit over on others. The hospitals are slaughter houses for guinnie pigs that somehow is deviated from normality out of a doctors perspective. And ive met fucking autists performing this. They are nearly clueless. The authority is insane. And being there is like being in a bloody death camp. They judge you from the begining to the end and it's written down too. So be fucking carefull. And they fuck you up anyway if they don't like you. Ive met good docs too but it's rare as fuck. They messed up my life completely they broke me systematicly down to a piece of shit. Totally worthless. You may meet docs that are evil too. Heartless and deviouse. They will just push meds into you until you melt and become meaningless. It's just moron. So to settle it. The field is science but the practice is practice is pseudoscience. Cant get dumber than that. The system is a broken failure. That's my xp 3 years locked into asylum. Dirtiest business i have seen. Now i want to kill someone to. Ty op. Fucking faggot.

The psych industry is fucking scary. Worse than being involved with law enforcement.

Psychiatry is still progressing as our understanding of the human brain grows. Like all medical science in which the theory is still being developed, progress is made through experimentation and empirical observation in conjunction with a refining of theory. This philosophy of medicine has existed since the time of Galen.

funny thing the 70's declared psychiatry the new priesthood.

now
now psychiatry will be the new policing agency.
because its more humane to declare a criminal mentally unfit, place him in a locked hospital unit, and pump him so full of psych meds, he'll be dependant on the system until his liver and kidney ultimately give out because psych medications are poison, but they help psychotic/depressive/manic symptoms.

funny thing about medicine since galen.
We are definintly sure how asprin works on the body, blodd thinners, and several other medications.

To date not one single psych med has a proven route of action. They can only take guesses with the ones they engineered.
The ones they just found out happened to help treat certain psych disorders, is like a shot in the dark.

seems to me that psychiatry is the new holocaust in terms of advancing medical science by sacrificing the current patient for all future ones.

Prison?

How the fuck happened, that we treat symptoms?

you should consider working as a pharmacist, PA, or nurse, or even an orderly.

People get perscribed meds like this
patient tell doctor he is sick
lists symptoms
doc takes best guess
loads his shotgun full of pills and pulls the trigger
whatever pill sticks wins
if no pills stick he reloads the shotgun with more pills
if none of those stick
then
then
they take samples of tissues and shit to get a "confirmed" diagnosis
then they say well it looks like you had this all along
heres some pills
and meanwhile your insurence gets billed almost triple becuase for some reason I have to trust the education of some shitheel in a white lab coat rather than some diagnostic test.

It might not even be their fault.
it might be how the insurence comapnies want this thing handled.

No
No
There are cases where they are the only right thing

It's not the BRAIN we need to understand, it's the MIND that we need to understand.

Imagine you tried to understand a computer by just looking at the physical components. It would take you forever. You need to understand the software that is running on the computer.

I strongly believe that most "mental health" issues are merely strong emotional reactions to distressing events. Throwing drugs at people doesn't resolve these issues at all. Talking therapy can help very much though.

This, psychiatry is corrup, abhorrent garbage. But therapy is pretty alright

Understanding the brain is obviously something we should do - but that's the domain of NEUROLOGY and NEUROSCIENCE.

The problems which cause people to be involuntarily detained are usually emotional problems, and they should be understood in that way. That's the only way you're ever going to get a full understanding of why somebody is behaving how they are.

1. basically, but it can do quite a lot of damage in practice and it often seem to do that
2. yes, not psychiatric treatment though
3. they sometimes help, it depends on a hell of a lot of things

>2. yes, not psychiatric treatment though
I meant involuntary psychiatric treatment.

>1) Is it a joke field?
No. It's messy but that's the nature of what it works with.
>2) Should involuntary treatment be legal?
Yes, but far more stringent. Many times it is perfectly justified, but psychiatrists should be subject to rigourous standards. I mean they probably already are.
These people are retards, ignore them.
>3) What do you think of psychiatric drugs like antidepressants and antipsychotics? Are they a good solution?
Yes, evidently they help many people. However, they are prescribed too often, again, needs better standards and restrictions.

The brain isn't comparable to a conventional computer. The brain is the mind. There is no hardware-software.

>Yes, evidently they help many people.
Do they really though? I think it's a very imperfect solution. A much better solution is helping the person resolve their emotional issues. Drugs don't solve any issues. They just drug you up.

Nobody trusts psychs. They should work on that. I watched one rape my mother and lord it over my father, telling him nobody would believe him because hed diagnosed him as schitzophrenic.

My mother was a narcissistic sociopath but instead of diagnosing her he just manipulated and abused her for his own gain and then set her on me.

I dont know what kind of person amuses themself this way...

Stay the fuck away from them.

Psychiatrists are for the most part hacks that give their patients a drug addiction to maintain a constant revenue stream

they don't get money for prescribing drugs I'm pretty sure
they only get money from booking sessions

An addiction disorder keeps the sessions coming

psychiatric drugs aren't addictive (maybe some are)
and I don't think that follows anyway
they would benefit more from not giving you drugs, what a psychotherapist does
ideally you go see a psychologist

Why haven't you murdered him?

not the other user, but despite not being addictive it has strong withdraw effects that can cause the same objective dependance which you mentioned.

diagnosed schizo here
>Is it a joke field?
no, it doesn't work for everyone though
>Should involuntary treatment be legal?
yes if 5 doctors reach the unanimous conclusion, the doctors should never know each other
>What do you think of psychiatric drugs like antidepressants and antipsychotics? Are they a good solution?
anti depressants didn't do much for my anxiety l theanine did, anti psychotic side ffects were worse than schizo but healthy living has helped massively

>they don't get money for prescribing drugs
They do, sort of. They can get paid for participating in drug studies or drug companies can just give them gifts. It is illegal to just give a provider money for writing a script though.

this

>1. Its a super empirical field of science, but one nonetheless.
>2. Depends on the condition but generally not. Only if the patient is a hazard to others, and if there is no other alternative. Really it should be the same as with criminals: let a court decide if they can be allowed to be free or not.
>3. If it just werks, it just werks. There is no point in arguing with non-depressive people if its a good solution. Its up to the people in question if they want it or not.