I was in a debate chat and the topic of the usefullness of math came up. Of course, attempting to elaborate its importance was met with major backlash. Why do normies resist math so damn much and what can we do to help increase the clarity of it?
Pic related
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maa.org
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I think you should make some time and read this both for your own well being and of them:
maa.org
Thank me later.
This looks perfect for conveying what I mean, as well as providing a new aspect on math. Thank you.
But have you gotten to the part which the author goes against your claim of "math" being useful?
Read it all and tell us what you think afterwards.
Post more pics of the convo OP.
>social sciences I'd say are more applicable on a wide scale
lmao. Maybe if you consider economics a social science
Might have went a little apeshit. Not proud.
Will do.
Usually I don't take the side of people who insist that math is entirely useless, but you fucked up here. Let brainlets be brainlets
As an artist myself, first page already speaks quite clearly to me. As rigorously as I study math, I don't tend to approach it artistically, which I think would be a much better flow for me.
I actually agree with the normies, in general we (as a society) should specialize more.
For many people in STEM learning more math is easy. So you some times forget that very few people can master so many fields in their life time.
However, then you also see many STEM -including pure math degree- graduates struggle not only to learn more math easily, but to make bigger contributions that making a spreadsheet for a logistics company.
People who are highly intelligent, yes it is absolutely the quickest route to contributing to society on a meaningful scale.
But for most people it is a waste of time and they'd be better of specializing in their talents.
Math happens to be a field, just like any other, that intelligent people can learn relatively quickly.
However, the payoff curve doesn't make sense for most normal people to learn. They will struggle with single variable calculus well in their late 20s.
To contribute you need either math+applied STE fields or you need to study math at a postgrad and then a research level and not many people can do this quickly.
Basically if you want to see what I mean just try teaching math to freshman undergrads.
>tl;dr: Hundreds of millions of people can and should study math, but that's still only a fraction of our society. Also julia fractals aren't pretty
Basically your question boils down to
>how do we make normies do smart stuff
tl;dr you can't
People are stupid. Even the smartest people are stupid. We only call them smart because relatively they are. Looking past the issues with IQ as a metric and more at the concept, the smartest people are coming in around 180. The people are stupid. Normal people can't tell because they're so much more stupid. Your average person has an IQ of 100. Mild mental retardation starts at 85. So the difference between your average person and the smartest is more than 5 times the difference between a retard and the average person.
About 1% of the population has an IQ over 130. The definition of genius changes depending on who you ask but that's a nice clean number. The are your mathematicians, scientists, and engineers. These are the people who when faced with a problem they think is solvable look in their problem solving toolbox and see math is in there. Think of the ramifications of that. 99% of the population solves most of their problems by not caring or letting someone else solve them.
Now realize this is a successful survival and reproductive strategy. You ultimately want to alter this fact about 99% of the population. Millions of years of evolution has built this behavior in to our nature. You might be able to change the behavior of the borderline cases with their cooperation. Don't count on that cooperation though.
Ultimately advanced math has no use for most people. Even if you could cram it in their head they still would have no inclination to use it. Luckily math doesn't need evangelists.
This not to say that you should be able to get a degree without Calculus. University is higher education. That degree is a credential that says you know a lot about a topic and have a well rounded knowledge about other areas. If the concept of a derivative is too complicated for you then learn a trade. I don't look down on these people. They are what they are just like me.
Just tell them to not use their cars as that has calculus, don't tell them to use their hardware as that obviously has a lot of CS theory, basically just log out of that debate room entirely then they will see the purpose of math, this is why we need eugenics.
While I love math and do it for hours a day at a high level, it is pretty ridiculous to claim it an "art form". Math is entirely composed of very strict rules and doesn't rely on creativity at all. The only time you can really "play" or do interesting/unique things with math is when you apply it to other subjects. You have to be at an incredibly high level, not to mention a genius, to come up with new math that hasn't already been defined by someone else.
Real question is why the fuck would you WANT brainlets getting into math? They're right about it being useless for them, because they're too stupid to ever apply it to anything. Smart people will get into math regardless of what normies think about it, so if anything lets encourage them to drop it sooner to make room for the people who will actually use it.
Ask if they enjoy living in buildings.
If you're going to build basically anything, you're going to need math
the best argument is that math helps you develop problem solving skills even if you arent calculating epic triple integrals!!11 in your daily life
stop caring what plebs think
>usefullness [sic] of math
Friendly reminder that something can be useful for one person but useless for another.
Any debate about "the usefulness of math" is really a debate about the appropriate level of [math]mandatory[/math] math education.
>math doesn't rely on creativity at all
why care about normies?
Math is useful but 99% of people don't need it
>went to uni for CS degree
>got decent paying job
>been working there for two years
>never needed 99% of math that I know
>doesn't rely on creativity at all
And yet you find people out there who are clever enough to come with different proofs (or a definite proof) to a theorem which didn't simply rely on the already established concepts.
While the proof does logically follow from the premises, the act in which it does is a creative process in which the mathematician is involved.
You could certainly find examples of this on some of the math books you've read.
>social sciences are more applicable on a wider scale
>implying that social sciences don't use any math.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
>I actually agree with the normies
This inst surprising given the reddit spacing
The - reddit spacing - dog whistle is a quick way to spot newfriends.
Spacing on posts been around for the last 10 years till people like you started copying the behavior of others and telling them to stop it because muh reddit.
t. actual loser who's been here for 10+ ish years.
What app? I want to debate normies too!
The less people who know math the better.
Jesus you math people have your heads up your asses.
>"Do you think carpenters are out there
using trigonometry?"
Yes. Yes I do. I very much agree on many points this guy makes, some math we're taught indeed doesn't end up used ever again and the way it's taught should focus on the why of things as that makes it much more interesting and logical to understand. But most people are going to use math as a tool and they need an appropriate understanding of it. Knowledge beyond the practical appliances of math in a person's life is pretty pointless as the "normies" say, there are many things one could be studying that can be applied on a much larger amount of things. Math does help with logical thinking etc. but so do appropriate video games, math isn't some perfect and pure science that trumps all no matter how much of your lives you've spent on it and circle jerked about it.
What the hell is the point of doing art if there's nothing to show for it? Like, it's fine to do art by yourself but intellectually masturbating by yourself in a dark room with pen and paper isn't a very productive use of your time. It's fine to do it, but doing it as your job or claiming its a superior pastime to, say, playing video games or watching movies is just silly.