Veeky Forums, why do you guys still read books, when graphic novels are better in every way? Think about it

Someone help this guy out. Remember, it's a work to save a whole genre.

Not this time

Love and Rockets
American Splendor
A Contract with God
Watchmen
Persepolis (inb4 /pol/ brigade)
The Adventures of Luther Arkwright

If you're willing to give the big two a chance, then Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns and Tom King's Vision are worth reading.

OP is a faggot and this is a shit thread but as someone who loves comics and books alike I can't help replying.

I truly believe that comics have incredible potential as an artform and that the condescending way they are regarded by other media is very reminiscent of the way film was regared by literature not too long ago.

I'm convinced, if something as BLAME! was accurately captured in literary form, it would be hailed as a modern masterpiece.

>Tom King's Vision

I bought this comic, are you the other guy?

Dropsy Avenue for small town O. Henry-style short stories.
Asterix for adventure, broad humor, and endless puns and historical references.
Stuff by Joe Sacco is really great.
Scott McCloud, for meta commentary about how comics work.
The Incal, because it's fucking cool.
A lot of stuff from old Heavy Metal issues would be good, actually.

Even though I hate him, a lot of people would tell you Grant Morrison.

Blankets - Craig Thompson
Persepolis - Marjane Satrapi

Other than those, comics are routed in genre fare, so a lot of this will depend on how open you are to that.

Transmetropolitan - Warren Ellis - if you like dystopian sci fi or Hunter S Thompson

Preacher - Garth Ennis - if you enjoy Modern westerns/supernatural horror

Lost Girls - Alan Moore - No irony, genuinely think this is his best work, and probably his most "literary". Erotic fairy tale.

The Sandman - Neil Gaiman - Dark Fantasy

However, even though I am a fan of comics, the idea behind this thread sucks. They are both different mediums and, as comics are only in the past 30 years being accepted as serious works, and even now dominated by publishers making writers write what they want them to, rather than artistic freedom, they have a much smaller pool of truly excellent work than literature.

No. 5
The National Quiz
PunPun (it's babbys first existentialism but done with a sense of humor)

Oh god what a fucking brainlet.

He thinks watchmen (a well done parody of classical superhero schlock with muh gritty atmosphere and a bland ucronic setting) is better than the dublineers or American pastoral or war and peace or moby dick ect

I've read and liked most of these comics but I have to say, they're not really helping the argument that comics can be just as profound as literature.

If you strip away the pretty pictures from these examples you're left with very mediocre novels, Persepolis being a possible exception.

The problem is, most comic authors focus on art first and writing second.
Have you tried reading that Neil gaiman comic 'Star-something' which is essenially a illustrated novel? I'ts fucking atrocious.

>Watchmen is a parody
How to spot somebody who doesn't know what they're talking about.

>better than

Literature isn't a zero sum game.

What makes Watchmen "artistic" isn't even the deconstruction of superheroes, it's the fact that Moore used specific advantages of the comic book medium to tell the story (palindrome chapter, nonlinear storytelling, etc.) and the fact that he incorporated other mediums than comics into the story.

Art can't be profound?

If we strip them of the art we only have half the form, so of course they would be mediocre. If we reverse this, most novels, even great ones, if stripped of almost everything but dialogue and replaced with pictures, would not match the best comics, and certainly would be nowhere close to the quality they would be in their original form.

The premise is a parody. A parody of classical superheroes and the American dream/american society from the 50s

It's quite simple, just like v for vendetta, every political/philosophical concept is obvious and in-your-face

It'll continue to rise up and replace books. You might not like it, but it's the future.

How non-linear storytelling is exclusive of comic books?

See, the thing they don't get is that you have to mix the two art forms together. You need good writing as well as good art. That's what makes a graphic novel masterpiece.

Oh please, at least make your bait believable. Say that movies or Netflix series are the future, at least it'll be more plausable.
If People care about comics it's because of all these shitty marvel movies, it's just a trend.

who cares, videogames will replace both

You hit the nail square on the head.

Videogames will replace movies. Especially with the shit films we get nowadays.

Literary comics peaked in the late 70s with the Metal Hurlant players Moebius, Druillet et al., and has been in decline ever since. Recently there is a revival in this approach to comics but the ironic nihilistic solipsism of this generation needs to die off before anything great comes of it.

Seconding this. BLAME is really something else, once you give it the chance.
Just finished watching the netflix movie for it, actually; it wasn't as good as the series definitely, but stood on its own and felt to me like Mad Max but with cybergoths and prettier scenery.
Either way, I would highly recommend the comic, since it does touch an emotional nerve I haven't experienced in much other media. (Also beware of entire volumes without dialogue and endless roaming throughout ancient hallways the size of jupiter.)

>enjoy reading and discussing literature on Veeky Forums
>come across No.5, a surreal and nuanced masterpiece
>try to discuss it on /co/, get told to fuck off to /a/
>nobody on /a/ has read it despite being the fucking manga board
>get 3 replies from people who at some point have seen an anime based on a manga that happens to be written by the same author
>thread dies
>meanwhile there's a dozen threads about the latest cute girl anime and maybe two generals for shity wsj mangas

fug

I don't think solipsism is typical of millennials.

which 2hu will u fug

You are a fucking retard.
I own 200+ comic books, love them all, and still I feel the incredible urge to punch you right through the screen.

8/10, made me reply

No, but it has swollen to fill the void vacated by faith in a secular era

>If you strip away the pretty images from these movies you're left with very mediocre novels

This doesn't sound right but I don't know enough about the force to refute it.

No. I mean, I think they're self centered, but solipsism implies moral relativism and detachment

What editions of Metal Hurlant
do you recommend?

>solipsism implies moral relativism and detachment

moral relativism and detachment kinda personify our age

Comics are alive and well in Japan and have been for decades.

They're just covered under a huge pile of conusmeris garbage but instead of the US where you can just instantly dismiss anything released by the big 2 publishers (Marvel and DC), with Japanese comics you have to actually sort throught to find the good stuff which I believe to be one reason (aside from rampaging stereotypes and misconceptions) why they're so underrated among western readers.

>better, more modern stories
Can you explain what it is?

>Fun stories
Books have fun stories

>Combination of written and visual mediums. This is objectively superior to just writing, because you don't have to worry about creating imagery, it goes hand in hand

Creating imagery using prose or poetry is not a stick that gets in the wheels of the story. Often times the imagery you create with prose or poetry can be more powerful and memorable than an actual picture of it. And reading a fine text is always a great pleasure. And a lot of people want to read just text, and get inspiration from the text rather than from artwork. Not to say that comic panels will ruin the immersion of Moby Dick, War and Peace, Divine Comedy, Bible and so on - that is if you want to compare graphic novels with great literature.

>Plus, you lose nothing since you can still create things like allegories, metaphors, etc.

Writing is not about allegories and metaphors because every country bumpkin can create allegory or metaphor. You can loose a lot by making your novel have comic panels. Tone changes, purpose changes, your style of prose will have to change, the amount of words you put on the page, the construction and form of your novel, the meaning too.

>You are a board focusing on an art form in its death throes. Graphic novels are the future.

By art form you mean literature or paper books? Because this is a literature board and it's focus is discussion of literature. And literature is not just a paper book, because some books are not literature.

Literature is a great discussion. It contains many ideas, forms and traditions that persist today just like they were before. Internet is a form of literature, you can view it as post modernistic novel with million of characters who write themselves in it. And graphic novels are literature too, even though they have picture. Because picture is a text as well that you can read.

I hope I could turn this bait post into something different

You don't seem to realize how Veeky Forums used to be great, before beasts like you ruined it. Now the mods side with the mediocre, with the rabble, with you; they will ban anyone telling your kind to get the fuck out. They helped make this place more like reddit; and it just keeps getting worse, as reddit users come, and just see the garbage, the retarded shit, the dumb sci-fi, fantasy, pleb threads, and go "woah this board is actually quite like reddit but with another template," so we have to deal with them, and they start to form sort of gangs, and will side against anything rare or noble to further wallow in their mediocrity like an animal in its shit. Most of them must be fat fucks, gamers and losers.
Some of them can be reared into respectable people, but they must encounter anons with unfathomable arrogance backed up by true knowledge of the subject matter. The good ones will feel terrible about themselves, and will remake themselves. They will read the good books, they will despise their former selves, and attempt to create a new personality, bringing about their maturity.

The others are just too low-blood to make it, probably the descendants of products of incest or the sludge of some peasant caste in a past age, the kind with big foreheads and squinted faces, who hunker through the streets and yell at anyone they deem "tryhard" or "hipster," words true for some but used falsely by them against anything or anyone remotely Olympian. These must be simply embarrassed with ad hominems, doxes, literary gang rape and dunce caps until they get the fuck out for good. That's all they can understand, so we speak their language.

Since we stopped doing this like we used to, the board now lacks the atmosphere of an old e/lit/e french salon fused with the violent Greek ἀγών which it once possessed.

We don't have experts to come in and shit on newplebs, tell them to go back to reading catcher in the rye: we've let people who fap off to DFW actually have threads and not shame them out of here, and the American election has made everyone care about petty politics more than the canon, so you get effete antifa wannabees and braindead alt-right meme-spouters bickering about who is more sophisticated when neither of them read anything written prior to the nineteenth century.

If we want the board to be good we have to shit on people all the time and cultivate a culture of elitism again.

In order to achieve this, we must make the reddit users feel not welcome, and ruin their chances at an actual discussion of whatever their mediocrity brought them to enjoy. They must lose all incentive to come here. This incentive is fundamentally that they find a platform which allows to partake in such discussion. This platform must be destroyed ; we must insult, humiliate and harass them until they can no longer find any pleasure in coming here.

What's the problem here?
Shouldn't a good comic have good writing?

>even the pasta is more refined on Veeky Forums

Impressive, I should come more often. I hope we get another /fitlit/ next year.

Observe! Such is the splendor of reccuring digits.

czeched

It should have good writing but the writing is done to accompany the image based storytelling. The writing is not meant to be consumed on it's own.

If you strip away the images from a film, you're left with a really shitty radio play. That doesn't mean that the writing in all films is shit.

>You are a board focusing on an art form in its death throes.

Literature is more powerful and wide-spread than ever, you absolute moron

I mean aware detachment. And every single twat believes in a sort moral universalism where he'her is the center of the world. Again, the different from the pragmatism and the "heideggerism" of solipsism

Not that guy, but don't the images accompany the story, not the other way around? The images in the comic are visualization of the writing, just as a movie is a visulaization of the script.

The text and speechbubbles in comics are just a fragment of the writing.

this post is too good for Veeky Forums

>felt to me like Mad Max but with cybergoths and prettier scenery

Way to rape the manga, thanks Netflix.

My point is that the story is written for the medium; the medium is an important part of the work as a whole. To separate it from it's intended medium and then judge it is unfair in the judgement of the work.

Is what I said wrong in any way?

The thought that any modern media, and comics of all which are essentially books anyways, will replace books, is absolutely ridiculous.

Scripture is fused so tightly with our culture and communication processes that if we attempted to remove it or completetly replace it with some form of oral or visual media, society would collapse.

>Books have fun stories
Cooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooome on now
>Tone changes, purpose changes
You can have these in graphic novels

Nice prose, user. Unfortunately, you have put too much filler into your post, so I'm not going to give it the time of day. Get off your high horse, then we'll talk.

Both writing and images are complementary to each other. That's why they are the superior format and why they will take books over in 50 years.