Submission

What did you think of this book?

I haven't read it.

Then don't post, retard.

I liked it. It satisfied my cynicism and misanthropy, but I'm not sure how to determine what it achieves as literature.

...

If it gave you a sense of pleasure and wasn't mere entertainment nor escape, isn't it literature?

Not denying it's literature. I'm saying it's difficult to determine it's achievement as such.

To clarify, the point I should have but did not make is that because the book specifically catered to my cynicism, it became difficult to work out what the merits of the book were in a broader sense.

It read to my cynicism like twilight fan fiction reads to a sixteen year old "vampire".

Pretty good. Hits the nail on the head with the West's return to religious fundamentalism. I'm predicting a conservative Catholic - Muslim coalition within the next 10 years or so. Holy Roman Empire and all that jazz.

>but I'm not sure how to determine what it achieves as literature.

why does everyone have this meme response to houellebecq? in what way is it any less literary fiction than anything else on the market. just because it's cynical you write it off or somethign? fuck you faggot

Yea I understand what you meant, as in it didn't really challenge your beliefs. I'm just wondering if it's always necessary for literature to always do so. Sometimes it seems that for something to be qualified as literature it needs to be a type of negativity (as in critical) towards commonly held beliefs. But can't some literature be positive in that it affirms all of our deepest suspicions about life? Could Beckett possibly be doing something similar? Am I being stupid?

It's good, I still think Extension is his best.

I'm not sure if the ease with which he converted wasn't a little ironic on Houellebecq's part. It kind of rang like, Islam is such an easy religion, even liberals can do it! I think deep down Houellebecq wants to be a traditionalist Catholic but he can't commit.

His middle novels I think are his weakest but it does seem like he respects Islam more than liberalism/atheism.

>

>a conservative Catholic - Muslim coalition within the next 10 years or so.
It's plausible but not likely. Why would Muslims feel compelled to align themselves with Catholics? Christianity is dying out in the West. I could see Islam being attractive to many disenchanted Westerners though.

It's probably what he inherits from Celine. A lot of people read Celine and are like...well, what was the point? I don't get that from Houellebecq, because he's so much more obviously about ideas.

Houellebecq's sense of humour is 100% Celine.

I agree. Houellebecq and Celine are both masters of comedy.

Calm down. I'm not disparaging the book. I made a statement about MY difficulty in determining its literary merits. It's a broad, inoffensive bit of honesty. Christ.

I don't think you're being stupid, but you're not quite getting my point either. My fault entirely, I'm not managing to be clear enough.

Not so much that it didn't challenge my beliefs, it did and it didn't (my positions re the various themes developed in the book are muddled at best, true radical centristfag here)

I grew suspicious of my own enjoyment because it bordered on some sort of contrarian wish-fulfillment. Made it tricky to know how to rate it against other books I have read and loved. I got that funny feeling that there could be a book out there that fits my interests so perfectly, that I'm blind to the fact that it's woeful prose, or even worse.

Demonstrated the appeal of Islam quite effectively, also a good representation of the spiritual desert that is modern Europe, especially the west.
I've read the map and the territory too, what book of his should I read next?

Extension and Elementary Particles. His best imo.

"Whatever" as it is called in English translation was great.

How would you describe Map and The Territory?

Houllebecqs commentary on the commercialisation of the art world, features himself as a character as well which is interesting. Not as good as submission, haven't read enough by him to rank it overall amongst his works

I thought it was very touching. Houellebecq can elucidate the horror of Western life better than anyone, he offers totally honest psychological and social insight into the roots of our discontent, but he also still manages to propose solutions to the seemingly unsolvable problems he describes so accurately and so personally. Usually those solutions are completely imaginary and would probably only work in fiction--human cloning, popular acceptance of sex tourism, mass conversion to Islamic fundamentalism--but despite his suicidal protagonists and pronounced pessimism, I think he's trying to endure. He's trying find a way out through his writing, even if he knows that exit is ultimately nothing but futile fantasy. I find his response to extreme existential pain quite admirable

Imagine trying to grab someone in a chokehold for a year and a half and they still don't pass out. Wouldn't really call it a submission move.

"[In 2084] Sansal dared to go much further than I did," said Michel Houellebecq"

shit

Looks interesting.

Yeah, that would be embarrassing. Wouldn't you get tired?

I thought it was a good read, and one of the most thorough critiques of the after-effects of secular humanism that I've read in some time.

It was funny and standard Houellebecq. If you enjoy his other work you'll like this.

More stilted, The Possibility of an Island is my favorite. A little cliche in the epilogue. Submission is a good satire of academia and not entirely of Islam.

i just finished Platform and, while not being his best work, it feels pretty damn timely in light of the manchester terrorist attack

Lmao

What philosophers deal with the spiritual decline of the west and it's consequences?

Pretty much all of them starting with the mid-19th century.

I remember bieng sad for the dude at the end. I am a weak mind.

>I am a weak mind

why? the ending is sad. being moved is not against the rules

>being moved is not against the rules
I like that.
I think this is a personnal issue : as far as I could not get a girlfriend, somebody's being taken saddend me even more.
The point is : in a terrorist rampage situation, what would be the attitude to make me superior to the agressor? Imo, just being sad is a sign of weakness cause it leads to immobilism.