Stoner Thread

SMOKE UP
420 BLAZE IT

No, it isn't

>knows she doesn't like it

Wait.... Isn't sex always like this?

>never hang outside of that
It's you who should be hanging outside, preferably by the city walls.

Some thoughts:
The book is about Will wanting to find himself or nature or gain a deeper insight on life or find his place in the world; he's a coming of age protagonist basicly.

I got the feeling that the other men on the trip all embodied a different view of life or ethos.
Charley Hoge lives for religion,
Schneider's goal is hedonistic/materialistic(?) pleasures (money, food, whores)
And Miller being more one with the 'reality of nature' (does it because it's what he does, like the passage where he kills a hundred bisons)
All three got ruined as result of the trip leaving only Will. Who ends up picking up neither of their views of life.

Macdonald seems to be more in line with Will but matured and wiser.

I really need to reread MacDonalds speech.

Is this a standard coming of age story arc? Where the protagonist goes through a 'negative' experience brought on him by naivety/lack of understandig/immaturity. And at the end of the story gains nothing except maturing a bit.

Another example would be Tolstoys The Cossacks.

Even if it was only that, which it isn't, it's still a very brilliant Western. Read it, please.

I have read it, you goon. Also I'm not trying to be reductionist it's just an aspect I picked up on

almost all protagonists go through 'negative' experiences and gain little more than insight or maturity by the end
so i'd say it's just the standard story arc without other details

Yeah I guess you're right

Most women seem like caricatures

Spbp

i just ordered butcher's crossing and augustus and they'll be here in 5 -14 days

what should i do with my life in the next 1-2 weeks while i wait

threadly reminder that edith was raped by her father.

I heard this after reading, I didn't get that impression but it does sort of make sense if you're looking for reasons to come to that conclusion.

i've only posted a thread about it once before, so have you heard all the evidence? it really made some of edith's actions regarding grace a lot more sympathetic (though not excusable).

what did she do after her father died?

Just popping in to make sure someone already said this.

I would like to hear the evidence.

the gist of it is: edith fears intimacy because her father molested/raped her.

>sent away to boarding school at a young age by her mother
presumably to get away from the father
>father is wealthy, so mother can't do much else
>father shoots himself when no wealth to justify his wife's secrecy
>edith laughs and is weirdly happy after he dies
which is called a "queer" reaction
>edith burns all of her dad's possessions

but the kicker is:
>edith doesn't want grace to play in stoner's office because she's afraid for her
>edith doesn't give a shit about stoner's affair because at least it's not grace

I've read butcher's and Augustus, now I'm lost and don't know what to read next

I am redpilled

This could also be explained by her parents being rich, having high expectations of her, and spending little quality time with her. Her happiness at her father's death suggests to me her joy at loss of filial obligation, which also explains her cluelessness at what to do with herself later in her life. The grace thing is also explained by Edith being jealous of Stoner's good relationship with their daughter, and also her desire for Grace to have the good social life she didn't have. Is there any textual evidence suggesting what you describe? I don't think the "queer" quote really suggests anything sexual (might be stronger if this was a male character, for example). I'm not saying it doesn't make some sense, and it's a fine theory, but it seems unnecessary since the story actions of the characters already make sense without it.

i agree in the sense that it could be a subtext on both hidden domestic trauma or familial expectations in middle-class american life—or one or the other. i don't think it's likely that it's neither your nor my interpretation.

i don't have the book in front of me, but edith's physical revulsion towards sex and intimacy seem to suggest real trauma, though it could be allegorical.

I think the more straightforward interpretation is backed by the parallels in Edith's and Stoner's sexual relationship and their personal conversational relationship (which of course also mirrors their respective relationships with their parents), i.e. Stoner's naivete and Edith's disconnectedness. The comparison between their relationships with their parents and between the way in which they let down their parents' expectations of them (and how both they and their parents deal with it) I think also reveals similar parallels. Edith's sexual revulsion is an unusual detail, I will admit, but I thought of it as her being both socially and therefore sexually inexperienced, which then is inverted with Grace's own experience. There are definitely some interesting themes in the book revolving around expectations and decisions, and also personal freedom, and I'm unsure that these themes would still be present with Edith's character under the interpretation that she was molested.

Would make more sense if she didn't allow Grace to go off with men all the time in their teens, I think she knew Stoner was unlike her Father hence why she settled with him.