So I've started reading "History of Peloponnesian War" by Thucydides. Superb book so far, really well written, I'm enjoying the concept of antagonisms in speeches written by Thucydides and attributed to historical figures.
And also most of what we learn about the Greek Antiquity from popular media finds its reflection in the book... Athenians are same, Macedonians, Corinthians too... One major disappointment. Spartans seem like >cucks so far and I'm halfway through book I.
>They hold a pre-war council and invite their allies >Corinthians (who are their allies) call them out on being idle when Athenians are pillaging their allies' colonies, say they're lethargic, they couldn't get their shit together during Persian War too and basically Athenians defended Hellas singlehandedly when Sparta was yawning >Athenian envoys who weren't even invited stroll in like they own the place, praise themselves, offend and threaten Spartans to not even think about going to war >old Spartan king gets up and is like "huh m-maybe l-let's send some diplomats and ask Athenians to stop... that will help...pls"
Do Spartans ever get good in this book or was the manly image in popular media all a lie? So far Corinthians look more like they were supposed to.
books written by athenians grossly overrepresents athenes
Jonathan Jackson
Thucydides was exiled from Athens, and clearly displayed admiration for Sparta. The war aspect of the book is a less important point anyways, it's about human nature.
Jace Richardson
>really well written
Oh wow OP, you're reading it in ancient Greek?
Colton Morris
The Spartans won, so yes.
Also, for a much, much more balanced work try Plutarch, who gives due consideration to all members of both sides, of course at a loss of historical preciseness.
Jose Thompson
>Do Spartans ever get good in this book or was the manly image in popular media all a lie?
Just wait for Brasidas to appear
Jose Green
>original language meme translating is really easy.
James Watson
big hopes for him desu. current spartan king looks like he can't get his dick up and corithians need to do the dirty business
Zachary Myers
Sparta was notoriously cautious about going to war; with the Helots ready to revolt at any time, and the number of Spartiates usually being low, they were very concerned not to oblige themselves to any ventures that might decimate them.
Alexander Morales
I HIGHLY recommend, if you don't mind doing a shitload of extra work, torrenting Kenneth Harl's Teaching Company course in video format, which follows along the book.
He also has a very good book on the war itself, I think just called _The Peloponnesian War_
Daniel Clark
Ancient history is garbage. Read Did the Greeks Believe in Their Myths? by Paul Veyne.
Joshua Ward
i wish teaching company courses were more commonly used around here. they are the patricians audiobooks.
Jacob Nelson
>reads his first ever classic history book >"really well written" >shit talks one of the major players in the war >"it's about human nature"
babby's first greek
Read Herodotus, finish Thucydides, and then read another dozen ancient writers/historians. Are you so naive as to allow your perspective of an entire culture to be wholly dictated by half of a single book? Nothing is ever so black and white as "were the Spartans manly or not," and you should know that.
Also hate to break it to you but the Athenians are niggers just as much as the Spartans, even in Thucydides.
>let's seize all of Sicily for our own gain >wait I meant to say "let's liberate Sicily" :^)
Did you read the historical background between the Persian wars and the Peloponnesian war? Literally 50 years of Athens dicking its "allies" and extorting what was basically protection money, while building up its "empire" and creating the classical civilization we now glorify at the cost of pissing off all Greece. It was hoped that Sparta would check their power and restore a more traditional rule to Greece, but (spoilers) totally fucked up (see Xenophon's Hellenika), proved themselves unable to maintain a leadership position in Greece, and left everyone vulnerable to a certain Macedonian upstart.
Also this: , because you get a ton of "in between" stories of characters you may have not even noticed in major histories. But you do need those main histories (Herodotus/Thucydides/Xenophon for classical Greece) to even know what Plutarch is talking about.
Keep reading it, keep reading other Greeks. You're on the right track but don't act smug for no reason when you don't even know how things end or really how they began.
Hunter Long
Instead of creating my own thread I'm just gonna post this here: Does anyone have any good materials on Herodotus? I've finished book I and been able to follow most of what's going on but there are a ton of digressions that I'm not sure whether they are going to play a role later. Also started reading book II and goddamn 20 pages about the Nile River is tough to get through.
Hunter Bailey
chapters in plutarch:moralia are the main source for spartans, even though he lived couple of centuries later.
John Collins
>Do Spartans ever get good in this book or was the manly image in popular media all a lie? The Spartans kick the Athenians asses so bad they blame it on their most prolific thinker. Fuck off you attic faggot >muh boats
Elijah Roberts
At the risk of sounding very hand-waving, that's exactly the experience you're supposed to have with Herodotus, so don't force an analysis/interpretation that doesn't really fit. It's the first "history" book and its weird digressions and fables and contraction/expansion of focus is not just Herodotus, but history as genre, trying to wrangle with and establish "history." Read it through, read whatever intro you may have in your edition, and then move to Thucydides to follow the track of history as genre to see the sharp turn it takes.
If you really want to analyze Herodotus, do it on your second reading.
Kevin Cook
Herodotus is shit, no matter how you look at him. He is shit. I mean he is half useful for Persian wars because we don't have anything else, but that's it. For everything else, you're better off reading fairy tales.
As for Spartans, yeah, they were a bit girly. They would sacrifice before taking a shit, and if it didn't go well, they'd keep it in. Now, your only problem is that when the sacrifice went well, they would take that same shit right into your mouth, and after they'd defalcated themselves with gusto, you'd be complimenting them on a job well done.
Lucas Jackson
pdf?
Andrew Nguyen
asl?
Jeremiah Green
>reading for "usefulness" >unnecessary defecation references
wew
Julian Smith
Oh yes, Herodotus is shit. His historical aspect is all that he's got going for himself. His language is pathetic, his stories dull, one would have to like already digested foodstufs to like reading him more than twice. I bet you do like that.
Josiah Richardson
Are you for real? Herodotus is one of the most interesting books I've ever read. You're either lying, or a boring brainlet.