ITT: great writers present their material to a creative writing class and we're the other students critiquing him
>"Kafka, don't you think we need some sort of explanation why Gregor turned into a bug? It just isn't believable that he'd turn into one for no reason. Also, that ending is just too depressing. Can't his family learn to tolerate his change and eventually love him or something?"
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>"Kafka, you turned in another unfinished, basically non-sensical story. What is this about? It was funny at the beginning, but now it's just getting old. What the hell was that endless dialogue about Barnabas and his family? And why didn't K. just go to the damn castle?
and what is the point of the innkeeeper showing K her dresses at the end? qre you trying to say that hell never get to the castle and he is now just another villager? and why does everyone talk like a lawyer its very unbelievable.
>"Hey Dave, I really liked this story after you recommended to the class that we should read nothing but Derrida and DeLillo before reading your short (223 page) story because there was just no chance of us understanding the work otherwise. I really think what you did here was really tough and important for the rest of the class, to try and help us break out of our lol "dogmatic slumber" (he nudges the beret sitting next to him). But yea I really liked the part with the depressing paradox in the movie theater. It reminded me of Wittgenstein and Borges. I also liked how you made the female character, I think her name was Taylor (extra points for androgyny (lol get my irony Dave that I'm subtly communicating)), into a drug addict. It's like you're not afraid to like combine the cerebral with the passionate. Dirty Realism. Minimalism. And so of course bandanna man, dictionary please? Thesaurus, usage dictionary, human oneness, monads."
>hey chuck i really think you should give AA a chance
why does he shoot the arab
I really think you should cut the marine biology infodump. It draws too much focus away from the gay romance (which I love btw!).
Why are those chapters there, I'm halfway through and they just seem odd and out of place.
>Virginia, you can't just use semicolons whenever you feel like it, there are rules to follow for punctuation
>why are you sentences so long
>the story was very well written but I think maybe you should consider writing about something that happens? Like some kind of plot maybe?
>How come you keep jumping around between past and present tense?
>Mrs. Woolf you wrote an entire story about the lives of a family but you only have two lines of dialogue
>Why do you keep asking the reader questions? Isn't that our job?
>why are you so obsessed with inanimate objects?
>Why do all of your characters spend so much time alone, shouldn't they be interacting with one another more?
>Show, don't tell
>Was it supposed to be sad?
>I'm sorry but, like, nothing happened? It was just a married couple thinking about loneliness and isolation? Isn't that like the opposite of marriage? It was just sad and boring?
Feminists like to pull the "Woolf had to teach herself in her father's study because she was a woman and not allowed an education" card but honestly I think she was better off. School would've ruined her
hemingway you write like a faggot
>Ernest, the assignment was 5000 words, not 500.
Kys retard
>Oscar, you are not one of those homosexuals, are you? You know that´s illegal, right?
Mr Shakespeare, I think your works could benefit from the, "KISS principle." Your allusions and word play are far too dense to be comfortably read.
>Jim, I think you could benefit from deleting some of the adverbs in your work, and cutting the exposition that doesn't exactly add to the plot. Remember, prose should be simple and tight. Also, what the fuck is a brekkek?
>Well, Thomas, I didn't really enjoy the part where the guy eats shit
You are wrong. The old man wrote well. About suffering. And nature.
Stop spitting Charlie.
>James this doesn't make sense.
>Steven king amazing book you should sell it man.....one question man...where's the black people?
>why is there so much fucking in a book about stopping nazi rockets?
Never gonna make it
Well, it isn't just a feminist position. That's what happened. She was better off for it, though.
>ok Schlomo? Yes. I read your little poem, the one about the rivers of Babylon. Very nice, especially the wailing part
>one thing though, why does it suddenly change topic to murdering children? That's a pretty big tone switch, I'm gonna need you to justify that
>also, earlier on, it's nothing but lists of people and their offspring. I mean, not to be rude, but we got it the first time
>also, what's the significance of Abraham sacrificing his own son? That's pretty grim, but more importantly, no one ever explains why the Lord character wants that in the first place, it also doesn't tell me why he changed his mind
>finally, could you come up with a better ending? The one you made just ends suddenly. It's just "I'll send you Elia", and then nothing, that's not how you resolve an arch
I don't want to embarrass you, Tommy, but you mispelled "says" throughout your story. I marked and corrected each of them in my copy.
Kek
I added these line breaks for you :^)
>Schlomo
You mean Moshe
>Herman, how do all the information about whale and whale hunting help advancing the plot? Shouldn't you focus a little more on Ahab revenge? And what about Ishmael and Tashtego? Was that just queerbaiting?
>WHAT THE FUCK DUDE DID HE RAPE HIM?
>Could you settle down with the ellipses?
I thought that as well, I mean on the one hand they help convey the details of what whaling life would have been like, but on the other hand it really detracts from the narrative.
It could just have been Melville showing off his personal whaling knowledge
I notice this a lot on Veeky Forums lately: people asking the most inept questions about great books, as if there were some deeper meaning in parts that were supposed to be funny, interesting, emotionally resonant, add layers of realism to the story, etc.
Do you want some allegorical essay brilliantly pinpointing how each of these chapters related to Melville's readings of Spinoza, Plato, and Shakespeare?
Will that make the book any more enjoyable to you? If I rationally over dissect and analyze it, if that's the only way you can care about it, what every part of it means, then hasn't the book already failed for you?
It's this trite attitude on Veeky Forums that the only purpose of a book is to make trite high-school tier essays about it talking about the political significance, the psychological significance, the philosophical significance, etc., of what certain parts "mean", why did the author write this part, that betrays the complete ineptitude of people on Veeky Forums.
What was the significance of the fucking book, if you want to ask why the cetology chapters, why those descriptions? Do you think this is an equation, with a reasonable part for everything? What if you took out the cetology, took out the details about working on a ship, took out the detailed descriptions and every attempt to add realism in the book? Then you wouldn't have a book.
Did the book satisfy you? If not, then who cares? No explanation could satisfy you, the book has already failed. It's as if us two were standing next to each other as friends and I were telling you a joke or a story and were trying to recreate the scenery of the place with a few details, and you wondered why I mentioned those details. They're as much part of the story as anything else.
In short, you are a fucking idiot
The point was to show how, despite all the scientific knowledge we have on whales, there's still holes in this scientific knowledge, and still forever a philosophical inscrutability in wondering why Moby Dick did/does what he does ... despite all the attempt to rationalize everything, to be encyclopedic, there's still something subtle, elusive, and irrational in life that perpetually escapes our attempts to put it in order. The overly detailed nature of the chapters is meant to contrast against what we DON'T know about life --- why we're alive, why we do anything, the existence of God, and everything. Dumbass.
>*spits in MacCarthy's face
>"Heh, no offense old man, you know it's just a literary technique"
Reddit spacing
David please just shut the fuck up
>Well it's good, I guess, but there's a lot of ground for improvement...
>Like, Will, your dialogues are weird, maybe add he said she said and stuff like that
>Also this character is really unlikeable, I mean he is a writer just like us, there's no need for this bitter irony
>And the whole sun god thing - maybe just cut it out entirely? seems like it doesn't really belong in this book...
>You know, you really got to spice up those descriptions, the parties seem like such a bore, I mean no offense
>And in other parts tone it down, I don't get it, had to skip that one chapter but it was about religion so I guess no big deal
>Will, I like know half the people in the book. It's sweet but you really should have credited our names!
very ironic of you
Mr. Focke, why are your stories so complicated? Why don't you alter your narratives to be more straight-forward?
Also, Mr. Focke you should really consider using simpler words; readers don't grok slang & ornate poetical constructions.
Also^3, Mr. Focke, your use of wordplay is excessive and annoying.
Also^4, you cannot be an 'exuberant minimalist'; it is a contradiction and is not, in the slightest, subversive. If anything, it is oxyMORONic.
Also^5, nobody cares about your self-proclaimed masterpiece 'The Reflection Collection'. You don't have the cred to back it up. And no, it's not a Catch-24, you self-absorbed narcissistic prick, you're bad and you should git gut.
Also^6, stop complaining about your 'plight' to austistic frog-worshippers you autist. Focke you.
underrated
Sometimes it's okay to get carried away by petty grievances. Other times it's better to be patient with people, or else you end up being the one who looks retarded
>"Aldous, the bad guys in your story don't seem bad enough. Shouldn't a dystopian government be straight-up evil, so your hero is more motivated to rebel?"
albert,you cant be shooting arabs that's racist
>"I just don't get why he'll act kind and altruistic and caring and then immediately shift over into being an asshole for no reason. Don't you think you should explain it?"
>I'm sorry Ms Rowling. The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, you wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs." I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Your mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that you have no other style of writing.
it unironically was like this when we learned about kafka in school. i just abstained from all discussion and wished i died
>Mr. Bolano, I-I'm at a loss for words. 280 pages? 280 pages solely consisting of overly graphic descriptions of corpses of dead girls and women? Jesus man... I think it would be best if you stop attending this class...
>I guess it's fine you put us on your book, but why in Hell tho?
The infodumps are important in the sense that they tie into the greater metanarrative of the book, which is the creation of myth. Melville creates a new pseudo biblical mythology out of the parts and body of the whale and fashions it into a creature of legend. It's a testement to his writing that by infodumping he mystified the whale rather than de-mystified.
It ties into how every character on the boat lives and breathes this mythology, and combines it with their own various rituals to create what can almost be described as a cult of the whale, with Ahab almost functioning like a Miltonian Satan.
>Ray, it's a captivating scenario you've come up with, but it just seems too unrealistic. Also, the Beatty's rant about minorities and culture is quite insensitive, the book would really benefit from cutting it short. Perhaps expand the character of Mrs. Montag a bit more, make her a bit more sympathetic and relatable?
Kek
GOOD
POST
>Marcel, have you ever heard of a period? You need 500mg of Adderall just to maintain enough focus to finish reading one of your sentences.
>No wonder you have asthma Marcel, you need the lung capacity of an Olympic swimmer to finish reading one of your sentences aloud.
>Oh don't play the gay card, who/what you decide to stick your dick in has nothing to do with these unforgivably long sentences.
>No, no, I won't lower calm down, this is ridiculous, he borrowed 3 whole sheets of looseleaf from me which comprised of 2 enormous sentences about a fucking asparagus spear. He asks to borrow my looseleaf in every class, Marcel you owe me an entire pack of looseleaf.
>What do you mean you're challenging me to a pistol duel because I talked about your sexuality? You brought it up. Is anyone else seeing this? He's talking about bringing guns to campus.
>Are you wearing pajamas to class? It's 4pm, did you just wake up?
>And another thing, I met your roommate at a dorm party last weekend. You practically live on your bed, you never do laundry or clean because you cry about how your mom would always do that for you, I can smell the swamp ass from here.
John, this is a creative writing class, we can't critique fan fiction, even if it's in verse.
>It's this trite attitude on Veeky Forums that the only purpose of a book is to make trite high-school tier essays about it talking about the political significance, the psychological significance, the philosophical significance
>The point was to show how, despite all the scientific knowledge we have on whales, there's still holes in this scientific knowledge, and still forever a philosophical inscrutability in wondering why Moby Dick did/does what he does ... despite all the attempt to rationalize everything, to be encyclopedic, there's still something subtle, elusive, and irrational in life that perpetually escapes our attempts to put it in order. The overly detailed nature of the chapters is meant to contrast against what we DON'T know about life --- why we're alive, why we do anything, the existence of God, and everything.
Excellent Essay user, B+. Try to work on improving your Reddit spacing.
>David, please be respectful of word count suggestions, it's not a minimum, it's a suggested length.
>David, I respect the struggles you mentioned about being an extremely educated white guy, and I'm not trying to get on the "white privilege" wagon, but please be respectful and don't "pfff" and roll your eyes when Keesha describes being racially profiled in her sorority rush.
>David, why do you keep glaring at the student on the varsity tennis team?
>David, I'm limiting the number of footnotes for your 10 minute freewriting assignment to 5. That goes for the rest of you.
>David, 3 females in this class say you approached them in a Fila sweatsuit, so uncharacteristic of you, and asked them on a date. I normally don't bring these things up in class, but when you use the pickup line, "Hey let's break into our writing instructor's apartment, have sex on his bed, and leave his TV on" I have to intervene.
>David, this character you have being murdered bears a stunning resemblance to me. I'd report this to the police but they'd be so offput by your writing that they'd think I was pranking them.
>David, don't joke about suicide
>I won't lower calm down
heh, at first you wrote lower my voice then forgot to fully delete it
does this really happen in writing class these aren't real critiques
James, you could easily have said he walked around town and ran some errands. Don't have to make an entire book about one day! And stop with the foreign words, we only know English and you've made that confusing enough!
wow sherlock fucking einstein here
Made me kek
kek
You can tell someone is saying nothing of value when they use the word trite, let alone twice in one sentence.
>280 pages solely consisting of overly graphic descriptions of corpses of dead girls and women.
Well, there goes one of my ideas for a novel.
Sinclair Fat, don't you need more cocks?
I once saw the aftermath of a man who killed himself by lying infront on rial tracks.
The police and what not where already there.
A really really pretty woman was there taking pictures of everything.
I stoped and looked up to where they were to see what they were doing and wondering about the bruised lone arm sticking out the cover they had thrown over the corpse.
She randomly turned around and looked straight at me and began to smile a beatiful smile.
I rode of on my bike after a couple second of her still staring at me.
I'll never forget that entire incident.
idk.
"so what exactly was he guilty of? I don't get it. and what's with the torture closet? fucking weirdo."
underrated
>I just don't get it. What's with all the citations of people and books that don't exist? What's with all the philosophy terminology? Couldn't you just make your point without name dropping?
>Reddit spacing
What new shitty meme is this and how did it start?
>Hey, Nietzsche; Maybe should should get la.....forget it.
>Mr. Sábato, can you tell me what's with your obsession with blind people? You know your friend Mr. Borges can get pretty sensitive about the subject. And while we're at it, why do you dedicate an entire chapter to criticise Mr. Borges? I toough you got along just fine
James, woule you like to explain to me the meaning of "bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronntonner-
ronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoohoordenenthur-
nuk!"?
>Mister de Sade, concerning the assignment "All kinds of people meet for a fun party"
>it'll be decades before anyone even reads the blurb to this book, John. Also the title reminds me of marijuana and that will never sell.
>Now listen Cervantes, what do you mean Don Quixote just falls ill and dies? I just read 900 pages for this.
>I don't know, Hiraoka. Maybe you shouldn't take sexuality so seriously.
>what do you mean Don Quixote just falls ill and dies
Thanks for ruining it faggot
Fuuuuuck.
Related: I don't indent after a space break, and while most people corrected me in their copies, there were two bitches that literally corrected me throught the entire story, as if they hadn't gotten the point.
What was the point?
I felt like it. I've never read a book that didn't do it, so why not?
Correction: when I'd said "they hadn't gotten the point" I meant they, by the end of the story, hadn't realized I'd been doing it on purpose the whole time.
this is absolutely the most reddit thread I have ever seen. You disgust me, you stupid faggots, none of you are funny
Bret we love all the inclusionary lgbtqia elements,but whats with all the violence. Also isnt this like,white people problems the book?
My sides
except they werent overly graphic. did you read the book?
>Jazz again? and what's with all the cats?
fucking kek'd
You're baiting right?
I notice this a lot on Veeky Forums lately: people asking the most inept questions about great books, as if there were some deeper meaning in parts that were supposed to be funny, interesting, emotionally resonant, add layers of realism to the story, etc.
Do you want some allegorical essay brilliantly pinpointing how each of these chapters related to Melville's readings of Spinoza, Plato, and Shakespeare?
Will that make the book any more enjoyable to you? If I rationally over dissect and analyze it, if that's the only way you can care about it, what every part of it means, then hasn't the book already failed for you?
It's this trite attitude on Veeky Forums that the only purpose of a book is to make trite high-school tier essays about it talking about the political significance, the psychological significance, the philosophical significance, etc., of what certain parts "mean", why did the author write this part, that betrays the complete ineptitude of people on Veeky Forums.
What was the significance of the fucking book, if you want to ask why the cetology chapters, why those descriptions? Do you think this is an equation, with a reasonable part for everything? What if you took out the cetology, took out the details about working on a ship, took out the detailed descriptions and every attempt to add realism in the book? Then you wouldn't have a book.
Did the book satisfy you? If not, then who cares? No explanation could satisfy you, the book has already failed. It's as if us two were standing next to each other as friends and I were telling you a joke or a story and were trying to recreate the scenery of the place with a few details, and you wondered why I mentioned those details. They're as much part of the story as anything else.
In short, you are a fucking idiot
The point was to show how, despite all the scientific knowledge we have on whales, there's still holes in this scientific knowledge, and still forever a philosophical inscrutability in wondering why Moby Dick did/does what he does ... despite all the attempt to rationalize everything, to be encyclopedic, there's still something subtle, elusive, and irrational in life that perpetually escapes our attempts to put it in order. The overly detailed nature of the chapters is meant to contrast against what we DON'T know about life --- why we're alive, why we do anything, the existence of God, and everything. Dumbass.
>this is what Veeky Forums nationalists really want all posts to look like
nope
Have you all seen this?
Not sure I understand all the negative responses this post is receiving. He's pretty spot on.
Kek, that one caught me off-guard.
>>Also this character is really unlikeable, I mean he is a writer just like us, there's no need for this bitter irony
lolllll
there's a lot in there
magical negros everywhere
Same. There's also a been a spate of threads along the lines of 'I read philosophy now why bother with fiction I'm so clever'. Reading for these guys is a literal waste of time. Just study STEM if youre not intersted in Art.
Vladimir, why don't you take a seat over there?
>Joseph, what is this? We get it: the jungle is dark, but do you need all these adjectives? Also, Kurtz is a troubling character. He kills black people! This entire thing seems a bit racist. I like the character of the manager though. He was cool. And why doesn't just Marlow just tell the intended what happened? Seems like no big deal, right?
>Why didn't you resolve your book by not killing the one relationship that gave the professor hope in life. John?
>John, stop. The ending is too depressing.
>M-Mr. Sotos, I best believe your time in this class is ridden with. I've never felt so ill over reading a paragraph in my life.
>Mr. Sotos, why does everyone get raped or shit on?
Marcel, your use of adjectives and adverbs is impressive but you're doing a little too much telling. Try using verbs to show instead of tell.