Anyone ever read Lovejoy's Great Chain of Being?

Anyone ever read Lovejoy's Great Chain of Being?

I'm writing a short paper on it right now, specifically on what exactly a unit-idea is. It's surprisingly hard to get a grasp on what he means, because he's working with such a weird metaphysics of mental contents. For him, ideas ARE susceptible to all sorts of blurring and interpretative glitches, so they aren't Platonic forms for example. But they also have necessarily internal "logics" to them - they aren't purely constructivist/perspectivalist.

It's like my mind constantly wants to say "Lovejoy, either ideas have 'logical essence', or they are purely perspectival. Pick one or the other."

Anyone read it and know what I mean?

Been awhile, but still have a copy. Will look through it and whatever notes i took and return if i feel i can contribute.

I'd be grateful for any other insights.

I've been looking into it more and it seems that most of his interpreters (including his biographer) see the unit-idea as a "family resemblance" concept, which I didn't get at all from reading it.

Two more recent things, one PhD thesis and one article, say that the unit-idea implies more that there's a "core" of something unchanging that makes the idea "the same" when it's held by different people.

Just taken this up-- focus on the unit idea.... (bump)

This notion of 'the history of ideas' is far more involved than my comfy recollection of it, to say the least. Hegel's Phenomenology depicts a 'rage for order' (idea) by comparison- where what's unconcious in one generation becomes conscious in the next while fusing with the newly unconscious that's simultaneously birthing the new consciousness through (historic) time ad infinitum.. The Phenomenology, in other words, so often felt obscure, is neat and pretty, TOO neat and pretty when compared to what Lovejoy is attempting, by comparison. The unit-idea..
It's very designation suggests a link (or unit) in some chain that fortunately or not is to be the conglomerate 'idea' of Lovejoy's entire study-- once he breaks down the three 'unit ideas' (and traces them through other disciplines) that he proclaims combine to make it.. What's most distinctive in philosophic systems through time, he says, are their shapes, their 'patterns' in direct opposition to their components (or unit ideas) which remain (deeper than Hegel, or as a cool Parmenides to Hegel's too ardent Hetaclitus) more or less the same. And what analogy, oh user, springs directly to the fore when reading something like this? The analogy of music- philosophic patterns are like musical compositions, unit ideas are like notes. Though this brings on a little clarity, it is not entirely just. More soon....
>sorry for the confusion, thoughts running amok- will write more delibetately next time out...

Yes, Lovejoy is problematic. Which is why he is not taken seriously/his ideas aren't utilized in contemporary studies in intellectual history. His thought is interesting as a curiosity though.

I would move on to the Cambridge School if I were you. Guys like Skinner, Pocock and Dunn. Read Skinner's methodological essays to see guys like Lovejoy get BTFO'd.

So a term is to be defined that Lovejoy himself hesitated to define in any strict sense? Meaning, the paper proposes to do precisely this?
Has it been handed in already?
If so, what kind of settlement was made?

The magic word is prejudice. But one must unthink it out of its near 100% denotative use as a pejorative. Unit ideas are those a priori semi-conscious 'prejudices' that not only infect all writing, but without which nothing gets written.
Or something very much like this. They of course are very subtle, and a little more (in effect) than quasi-emotional.
Given this, it would be dangerously easy to supply a list of what 'dominates' today.
History may be over, but the history of ideas hasn't even begun.

Thanks, OP. Arthur Lovejoy may be my new main Mang. The Cambridge school is far too dry, a little naive, and not near so literary, i.e. free.

Just started it today, hoping for something that will aid my understanding of 18th century culture. Did I do well lads?

I first read it in combination with Alexandre Koyre's From the Closed World to the Infinite Universe and Anthony Grafton's Cardano's Cosmos with a similar view in mind. All very good books.
The beginning requires patience, user. But it's a wonderfully informative book.

My mind constantly tried to make reference to Hegelian phenomenology too as I went along reading Hegel. The Weberian disenchantment thesis as well, as well as Koyre like mentions, and Foucault's renaissance vs. modern epistemes. Reinhart Koselleck too, if you've ever read that.

Something like Vernunft (Reason) finally coming into its full maturity after languishing in Vorstellung, and naive ideas about static "Being" being "in" the world, rather than the world being a deistic-mechanistic thing with only the efficient/material causes like Koyre says. (Actually, fun fact: Lovejoy says this too, in an essay on Darwin around 1905.)

>What's most distinctive in philosophic systems through time, he says, are their shapes, their 'patterns' in direct opposition to their components (or unit ideas) which remain (deeper than Hegel, or as a cool Parmenides to Hegel's too ardent Hetaclitus) more or less the same
>music

That's actually an interesting comparison, especially if you extend it to chords as well (combinations of notes that not always but often go together). Or even leitmotivs that develop and get progressively more complex and baroque.

Are you familiar at all with Charles Taylor's book on Hegel? The first chapter was CONSTANTLY reminding me of Lovejoy's GCoB. Lovejoy says (in his essays on Romanticism) that organicism (holism) and "vitalism" (integral self-expression) were the novel ideas of the Romantic era, meaning late 18th Germany onward, which is more or less exactly Taylor's thesis about the trends that Hegel was addressing.

We read Skinner and Pocock for the same class and I liked them a lot. I had always seen the Cambridge school as too simplistic but Pocock in particular is awesome.

I'm just finishing it up now. My main problem is:
>a term is to be defined that Lovejoy himself hesitated to define in any strict sense

When Lovejoy hesitates to pin down what an idea or unit-idea is, he usually does so (in GCoB and several articles) by showing that it can be any variety of affective state, judgment, or concept. This provides a lot of "ontical" flexibility in what an idea can be, but it doesn't really clarify the its ontological status, i.e., how it interacts with other historical entities (actors, periods, discourses) OUTSIDE of its class.

To be more specific, it's easy enough to say that an historically motive "idea" could be "an aesthetic or emotional preference or metaphysical conception." But before you can talk about the different types, you want to first ask: "What do 'historical' and 'motive' mean?" How do "conceptions" transfer, how are they shared, between people? Between periods? How do they prefigure discourse (like a paradigm, or theory-laden perception) vs. how do they figure into discourses?

Lovejoy has a lot of interesting stuff to say on the variety of ideas, ontically, but he doesn't really talk about what they ARE. How they move from mind to mind, period to period, etc.

>If so, what kind of settlement was made?

Just to conclude, after doing the research into Lovejoy's philosophy, I was kind of disappointed to find that the problem really is founded in his epistemology being too naive. He was a pragmatist, but not really of the fuzzy Jamesian constructivist-perspectivalist kind. He was a representationalist, and "critical realist," so, kind of "naive realism with blurring." To put it simply, he fundamentally thought that when you saw a "chair," if you saw it "rightly," you would get the concept for Chair, and at that point a Chair is a Chair is a Chair. Any fuzziness in interpretation on our part isn't at the level of theory-laden perception, or episteme/discourse, it's in the fuzziness of our representative faculty and our ability to reach "logical," truth-correspondent conclusions about real entities out there in the world.

This to me is proved in his correspondence with Spitzer, a Dilthey and Heidegger hermeneutics type guy, in the JHI in the '40s. Spitzer makes the same criticism that almost everyone makes: Meaning is determined by usage, not by "truth-adequacy to real entities." The real proof is in Lovejoy's reply, where he (to me anyway, maybe I'm wrong?) doesn't even seem to understand the criticism. He doesn't reply to Spitzer by saying "oh no, you misunderstood me!" He just goes "uh, are you saying the same ideas can't be held by different people?! Lmao!" I.e., he doesn't understand the problem inherent in saying "the 'same' idea."

The temporalising of the chain of being isn't a discursive shift, for him. It's a shift in better truth-adequacy. Becoming was ALWAYS "right," always more "adequate" to "reality" than Being. He equates ALL evolutionist thinking with Becoming, with pragmatism and pluralism, and all "eternalism" with Being, and his dichotomy is heavily informed by the debate between the evolutionist-pluralist pragmatism and "absolute idealism" of his time and place - he was a student of Royce and James at Harvard, and studied Bradley, Howison, etc.

Tldr: I was kind of hoping that it would turn out to be SO subtle that people were unfairly judging it, but he does actually seem to be hypostatising ideas.

My main argument is going to be that he has a kind of semi-naive "Bild" (logical picture-theory, stable realism) vision of reality, but by translating it into a Gestalt (discursively "meta-"stable) theory it's still a really interesting thesis.

Weirdly received a copy of Taylor's Hegel book from a friend of mine THIS PAST CHRISTMAS who heard an interview with Taylor on public radio and decided to pick up a copy and read it despite having little to no familiarity with any of Hegel's, or Taylor's, writing. Right. I have yet to read it.
Will read a little further (actually re-read) into Great Chain today and report back with questions, observations should the thread avail, i.e. remain available. Enjoyed //your comments, but have a few questions--

With respect to the quote, it's a little odd that controversy has kept the word Evolution as blessed, or as cursed, as it's been since the late 19th c.

Odd that the meme doctor is himself subject to that granddaddy, that.. meme of memes.

Oddly it reminds me of Burroughs attempt to characterize language specifically as a Virus (or a virus as a three dimensional point of control). Ultimately the old hack "there is no power in language only language in the service of power" rings most true to me.

Were the best i.e. most powerful writers not such lonely souls I'd be inclined to agree. Certainly this is less true in lit per se than in most other modes of writing.

I want to learn to be a lonely soul desu.

It's fundamentally a matter of awareness, senpai, and- dare I say it?- a vast generalization of Love (forget particulars- not in writing, but in life). It's little posts like this one....

Bump

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good post