A place for discussing all things vegan cooking, ethics & health
Meat consumption is ruining the environment. - Pollutes rivers - Forests cleared for livestock - Causes soil degradation - Massive inefficiency - Major contributor to global warming.
The most common and well known argument is the argument from marginal cases. Loosely speaking, the argument contends that animals as sentient as retards should have the same moral status
Morality is relative - Science, logic, mathematics are all based on axioms that are not proven, what is different about morality and moral axioms? Think this argument through before arguing for it, it is not as simple as you think. (most philosophers are moral realists and believe moral propositions can in fact be true)
Meatcucks please realise the difference between normative ethics (what we ought to do) and descriptive ethics (what beliefs do people have). Normative ethics is what is being discussed with regards to veganism and morality.
e.g. - people should not eat animals for x reason (relevant normative claim) - people eat animals for y reason (irrelevant descriptive claim)
but my mommy said meat helps men be big and if you don't eat meat the jewgoblins will shill to you hard
Anthony Myers
>natural >caked on makeup
Lmao
Hudson Bell
Wrong, overpopulation is ruining the environment. If we had 500M people, everyone could eat meat comfortably and have way more than enough space to have free-range [animal of choice].
We didn't get to this point in the Earth's history by being nice. We got here by being vicious and opportunistic and we, humans, will even eat our own kind in times of desperation.
Vegans don't live higher lifespans than meat eaters according to the NIH, but they have a slightly higher quality of life towards the end of their lives because of a lower incidence of certain cancers.
Veganism is not a lifestyle, but a dietary choice, that's why it will never pick up--the short term and practical incentives are not there.
Chase Martinez
Vegans live 8-10 years longer according to quite a few studies that have yet to be btfo by reference.
Veganism is definitely a lifestyle.
We are no longer cavemen. Modern man no longer fends for his food. You can save lives, live a normal AND more healthier life, and be morally pure by living the vegan lifestyle.
Meat is now destroying this planet and the average meatcuck's body.
Charles Adams
Ok, So, I'm not disinterested in going vegan. I'm well into middle age, and have blood pressure issues that could certainly be affected by a change in diet. I also am a bit of a hippy, and can see some advantages.
I guess my main concern is that I live in a complete flyover state, and I often have to take meals on the run because I have a family full of raging alcoholics, and meeting at bars for food and drinks is the extent of my social life. How does one deal with these kind of things. Do I have to be the pretentious guy that brings his own special meal to family dinner once a week?
How do I reconcile that most of the vegan meals I see rely on produce that has been shipped thousands of miles, over the pork that was slaughtered half a mile away, and therefore has a comparable footprint?
I'm a busy guy. Can you point me to tasty recipes that can be made quickly and conveniently, so I don't have to pay the prices they want in the vegan section of the frozen food aisle?
I see a ton of links in the OP, but they look to mostly be arguments for veganism, with little effort focused on making the transition easy.
Where do I find the simple recipes that will get me started, so I don't fall into shit habits, or spend more money than I would eating a traditional omnivore diet?
Thanks.
Aaron Jones
So, "Meatcuck" makes you sound like an asshat. You lose the argument immediately when despite bitching about ad hominem attacks, you use them yourself. the same can be said of the OP paste. Eloquence is far better than slander in swaying hearts and minds.
Adam Torres
>meatcuck
Great way to invalidate all that holier than thou bullshit you were spewing.
Carter Miller
If you don't really care about the moral aspects of veganism, and you are doing it for your health primarily, you could just start eating vegetarian instead of vegan. And you could still eat normal omnivore food during special family get-togethers or other social events, but you would still get whatever health benefits you were after most of the time.
This doesn't address your concern about how to get started with recipes, etc., but not sure why you want to go vegan if you don't really care about the 'muh animals' nonsense.
Anthony Evans
you should get your facts straight, meat consumption doesn't do any of those things you claim. meat industry might, but consumption won't do that. think for a second before posting complete bullshit.
Leo Gomez
And I suppose, that as a guy who has been swayed, and is looking to try a vegan lifestyle, preaching the "morality" of the lifestyle isn't going to appeal to people that have been happily eating meat for our entire lives.
We simply don't see livestock in the way you do. To us a cow is not a pet, or a species that needs protection. It's a steak.
Now, If you focus on the impact industrial meat practices have on the environment, and the health benefits of veganism, I'm more likely to listen.
People have an emotional attachment to food. This whole board exists because people get excited about the foods they grew up on. Telling them that mom's meatloaf is murder, and that they are bad people is just going to make them close off and ignore you.
Nathaniel Collins
Oh. I'm really sorry. My massive apology. I didn't realize this was tumblr and you would get offended. Fucking not, kill yourself you dumbass nigger. Go back to Veeky Forums if you get offended from ad hominem. I'm not using ad hominem as an argument so technically it's not ad hominem. Read a fucking book bitchtits.
Xavier Nelson
Aww. You're cute. See:
Chase Stewart
could i get some sources for these studies? also how many is "quite a few"?
Xavier Thomas
Feed a baby vegan food and watch him fucking die.
Eli Bell
Vegans are deranged and psychotic.
Leo Murphy
>meatcucks are dranged and psychotic ftfy
Robert Richardson
The main reason I would go vegan over vegetarian is that I've been doing a lot of research on the environment, and dairy and egg production creates many of the same problems as meat production. You still have to devote massive grain resources to feeding the animals, which depletes our dwindling aquifers as states like California pump every last drop of freshwater out of the ground because it is more economically feasible than desalination of the massive water supply just to the west of them.
Fish create similar concerns in that most of the worlds fisheries are being depleted.
So if it comes down to just subtracting a few more things from my diet while I'm at it, I'm fine with that.
Bentley Thomas
What's the difference between a dead baby and a vegan baby?
Nothing
Sebastian Wilson
this. it's funny how all the negatives of veganism is conveniently forgotten by vegans. nitpicking ftw i suppose
Bentley Carter
I got like 20 of these lol. Vegans are psychopathic babykillers.
Ian Miller
See, this is why people don't listen to the few valid points you have. Here I am. Ready to give it a try, but I fear that I'll become a jackass by sheer association with you. You come off like a fucking Trump supporter with a different agenda. Stop being a prick., and just stick to the facts.
Charles Richardson
"Meat is murder!"
*proceeds to murder baby*
Logan Flores
Yeah I saw Hungry Hearts too. Grandma was fucking based.
Caleb Brooks
that's horrific. vegcucks want to kill human babies, but save animals.
Nathaniel Jones
Mediterrean diet is much more recomended by real nutritionits with M.D.s Veganism is healthier that being a fat americuck, but that's not saying much... It still is a lot of hard work for something you can gain by just reducing the amount of red/greasy meat you eat.
As to the moral argument, the marginal cases in humans are ill defined. First of all, no one is denying moral values shouldn't be applied to animals, but obviously the moral values will differ from the once we apply to "healthy" or "regular" humans. I put emphasis in regular as we also don't apply the same moral values to humans with irreversible defects. So the point is moot because there exists empaty in some sense for animals even though we don't believe that having a choice of how and haow much will they live is fundamental for them. You need to first argue which moral values, if all of them, apply to animals consiering their lack of intelligence, and in the case of cows and chicken, self preservation.
For the enviromental part. Again, we just need to reduce the consumption and use sustainable techniques that exist. The point is that people take an extreme because for some reason moderation seems hard to understand.
Jayden Gray
keep 'em coming
Juan Cox
Why did you repost this comment again? I've never seen that documentary.
Thomas Jackson
Aye aye captain
Matthew Green
It's not a documentary, but it deals with exactly what you're talking about. Kind of a disturbing movie, desu ne.
Ian Lee
It seems to me that the few cases of infant starvation could be corrected via education and supplementation.
It's hard to point to some outlying extremes when we know the effect of a meat heavy diet on adults at a much higher rate.
However, Veggie fag here seems easily triggered. So carry on.
Juan Wilson
"Then came the day of Unleavened Bread on which the Passover lamb had to be sacrificed. Jesus sent Peter and John, saying, “Go and make preparations for us to eat the Passover.”" (Luke 22:7-8)
Son of God ate meat. Veganism is Satanic.
Jonathan Miller
all those babies had major prblems at 11 to 14 months. that's how long it takes before your body succumbs to veganism
Samuel Sanchez
Ah ok, that's cool.
Jaxson White
Your religious argument makes me want to go vegan even more.
>fedora.jpg
Zachary Watson
800 calories a day? That would put almost anyone into starvation unless they were very very careful. "Juice cleanse" is the key here. It tells you outright that they got their entire diet plan from a facebook post.
Oliver Gray
Veganism is the jew of diets. Whiny, unsatisfying, and literally only exists because weak virtue-signallers are guilt-tripped into following it. Produces soyboys and angry women who flip out if you consume something that's not kosher.
Eli Adams
Daily reminder that the meatjew wants you to pay ten times more for ten times less macros.
Ian Peterson
Notice how the vegan said nothing this entire thread but as soon as I mentioned the Son of God, he became enraged enough to make a post.
The babykilling meant nothing to him, but the mention of Jesus' name drove him to respond.
Veganism is Satanic.
Chase Cruz
"fox news reports"
Lost me.
But yeah, Obviously if you lose vitamins by cutting something out, you need to find a way to replace them. It's one of my main concerns as I look at going to a diet that is if not vegan, at least using meat more as a flavoring, like many objectively healthier nations do.
Hudson Martinez
Nobody is a religiousfag other than you. You should seriously consider 'righterous' suicide. God doesn't exist and you're retarded.
Kayden Allen
...
Henry Clark
I'm not the vegan though. I'm the guy thinking about going vegan. I'm more likely to accept a science article than some 2000 year old book that's been edited by the ruling classes over and over.
I don't think vegan fag has said anything since we called him out for using shitty arguments.
Brayden Brooks
he probably needs to regain his strength after making multiple posts in one hour. feel better, vegan fag, you'll make it
Jason Hall
How many human souls have to die before we realize animals exist for us to consume?
The idea that humans are equal to animals and we don't have "the right" to consume them is the most communistic pinko faggot shit I've ever heard. Anyone who believes that they are equal to a squirrel or a chicken can fuck right off.
Jack Turner
>Veganism is Satanic. You can make plenty of arguments against "veganism" without bringing up religion. You're only making yourself look retarded by doing that shit.
Adrian Powell
they probably watched too many disney movies
Dominic Martin
>edge Why are you up right now?
You want the sweet thousand-dump?
Can you even refute a study?
Ryan Thompson
itt meatcucks pretend they have nutritional education and post proof by examples
Hudson Diaz
>I'm the guy thinking about going vegan. Oh wow that's so much different.
Hey I'm not a homosexual, I'm the guy thinking about going gay.
Woah sorry man, that changes my whole argument. Here hold on give me a minute I need to go rethink my entire life because you aren't officially baptized into the vegan commune yet, you're just thinking about it.
John Mitchell
what the fuck is wrong with her face?
Wyatt Miller
...
Parker Wright
can meatcucks post something relevant to logic, or do they only attack with ad hominem and proof by example? inb4 vegans have studies and meatcucks laughably have the lack-of
Jose Cruz
Vegans tend to eat A LOT of high sugar foods because they crave what's in meat but can't have it so they're constantly hungry. This in turn causes them to break out in zits so they cake on tons of makeup to cover it up.
Little do they know makeup isn't vegan unless you shell out for special super-expensive types.
Didn't realize the food board was an atheistic commune. I've only been here for like, an hour. First time ever visiting. Gotta say, your lack of faith is probably why you have a vegan infestation.
Maybe get that looked at.
Austin Moore
I don't see how you can even consider that to be a parallel.
I'm pondering making a change to my diet because I just lost yet another family member to heart disease.
And really, You're barking up the wrong tree with your false equivalency. I have no problem with faggots. They take 2 guys out of the dating pool, leaving more women for me. Gay guys are awesome like that. And I love lesbian porn. Maybe I would feel differently if I cared what some 2000 year old people living in squallor thought, but I don't.
Noah Howard
Try this on for size, soyboy.
Juan King
Proof by example is actually the entire basis for rational thought.
I mean, these guys are cherrypicking, but at least they're providing some evidence. Maybe you should be posting heart disease studies?
Oliver Gray
>implying meatcucks have higher test, less acne, less disease and cancer, and better health should I do it guys? does this bitchtit deserve the studydump?
Angel Bailey
>I have no problem with faggots. They take 2 guys out of the dating pool, leaving more women for me. Gay guys are awesome like that. So the reason why you like fags is because it means less male competition for you to deal with?
lol this is exactly what I'm talking about when I say vegans are beta male soyboys with low-T levels. You are literally so incapable of competing with other men for a woman that you changed your political views to reward those whom you perceive as helping you.
How pathetic. This cat wishes it had died so it would never have to see your post.
Andrew Murphy
citation needed for that picture not your jewified ((((((((((study dump))))))))))
John King
Can you actually read though?
Effects of a long-term vegetarian diet on biomarkers of antioxidant status and cardiovascular disease risk. [Nutrition. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15474873
Vegetarian diets and the incidence of cancer in a low-risk population. [Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929
The role of diet and physical activity in breast, colorectal, and prostate cancer survivorship: a review of the literature ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3251953/
An impact of the diet on serum fatty acid and lipid profiles in Polish vegetarian children and children with allergy. [Eur J Clin Nutr. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21048771
Effects of a long-term vegetarian diet on biomarkers of antioxidant status and cardiovascular disease risk. [Nutrition. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15474873
Vegetarian diets and the incidence of cancer in a low-risk population. [Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2013] - PubMed - NCBI ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23169929
This raises some valid points, but many of these things that are pointed out are more out of necessity of using up byproducts, and have been produced without animal inputs. Some are outright bullshit. The fireworks for instance are mainly potash, a carbon, and nitrogen which can be gotten from any animal's shit, and whatever metal you're using to color the explosion (magnesium, copper, aluminum). The fat doesn't even make sense. You would have to render it rather than simply powder some dry shit.
The more I stare at this chart, the more I see it as an outright troll.
But then, I wouldn't care anyways. My goal would be to reduce greenhouse emissions and deforestation, and to have a lower risk of heart disease. Both of which can be accomplished by consuming less meat. I don't care whether or not I meet some fucking "Vegan" goalpost. It's not a moral issue for me.
Jack Flores
You asked for study dump, right?
Kek.
>implying you can't manufacture things without cows How fucking stupid can you get, Veeky Forums?
Alexander Thompson
Not the guy that posted either image. But if you are going to make him cite sources for each, Cite your own. Because as I've pointed out in a previous post, most of the things I see on that list I know can be made without cow parts, and are most commonly made without them. Glass from bones? That's a hell of a lot more complicated than using the silicate that 26% of the planet is made of.
Nathan Thomas
So I clicked one of your articles. The first one in your post about soyboys having higher Test than carnivor predator alpha males. Here's what it said.
"Vegans had higher testosterone levels than vegetarians and meat-eaters, but this was offset by higher sex hormone binding globulin, and there were no differences between diet groups in free testosterone, androstanediol glucuronide or luteinizing hormone."
So much for your (((((((ShittyDump))))))
Cooper Rodriguez
I don't think you understand test if you think that your copied text points towards what you think it implies. You're a moron. You should consider lifting fatshit. Also not even vegan. You're just a dumbfuck.
Jayden Walker
This is what happens when you fill a beta male with high testosterone.
This is what vegans mean when they say they have "high T levels."
Jackson Sullivan
>66 / 29 / 13 / 1 wew
Kevin Flores
I've actually been with the same woman for 17 years now. I was just pointing out that faggots aren't a big deal. I don't give a fuck what they do in their bedroom. Since gay marriage was legalized, I am willing to bet you haven't had to suck a single cock more than you wanted to.
And how many times do I have to tell you, I'm not even a fucking vegan. I am actually making 10 fucking lbs of BBQ pulled pork for a poker game on Saturday.
You aren't even using a straw man for an argument. you can't find any fucking straw to make it with.
Nolan Rivera
>also not even a vegan
>Not the guy that posted either image.
I'm starting to notice a trend in this thread. Lots of people claiming to "not be something" even though nobody asked them about it. Kind of makes you think....
Benjamin Butler
Actually, it's just me saying "not that guy" I'm the third or fourth voice in this thing, and I'm just asking for logical arguments.
I feel I have to differentiate myself from the others, as you seem to assume you are only arguing with one lone vegan.
I'm simply trying to be objective. Like our discussion about fags. Show me how what you are saying affects me, rather than some impassioned pleas about normalcy or religion.
I'm the guy actually reading the posted studies and looking for a collaborating study on any point, since the most important aspect of a study is that it is repeatable. Sample Size is the next concern, followed by the progression of the studies leading up to the studies in question.
I'm simply asking more of you. Further my research. I'm trying to make a decision here.
Hunter James
I should ad that the money behind the study is pretty fucking important. If I see a study about how great meat is, I'm damned sure going to see if the university or institute in question has received grants from meat producers.
Your memes are fun and all, and I'm enjoying them, but I'm really looking for something more solid than a report that cites a Rupert Murdock owned news outlet as a source.
Aiden Moore
>implying big diary isn't 90% of the market >implying BIG CUCUMBER isn't
Anthony Cox
>Vegans live 8-10 years longer I mean this is pretty obvious, right? Veganism basically goes hand in hand with actually caring about your health to some degree. Whereas the rest of the population don't necessarily. How many fat diabetes ridden shits that drag down the life expectancy do you think are vegans? That can be a bit of a misleading statistic.
Connor Ortiz
Actually I implied nothing other than money influences what studies get published. I'm on your side on this. Big money sways findings. This is why you need corroborating studies, because scientists still have to eat, they will be swayed by the source of their paychecks. It's why so many studies have results that can't be repeated.
Jason Garcia
Yes if you want to be a pedant. OP is making an assumption (a fair one) that if the animal agriculture industry would no longer exist, most people would not be willing to do the actual act of slaughter.
Xavier Watson
How is this picture an argument against veganism? Women visit their doctors way more often than men, does caring about your physical well-being mean you're living a woman's lifestyle now?
Parker Rogers
Some people have evolved with the ability to digest lactose in milk past infancy. I really doubt this is because they're supposed to be drinking human breast milk, so it seems to show that animal products are good for us when consumed in moderation with a diet that also has plenty of whole plant foods along with exercising regularly. We absorb more protein from animal products than plant products.
You can be healthy as an omnivore by paying attention to what you eat just like you can be an unhealthy vegan who eats candy all day. Maintaining a moderate weight is a bigger indicator of health than what your specific diet is. Obesity is a major problem and vegans aren't immune to it.
Animal products are natural. If you're a vegan for moral reasons I can respect that. Animals are treated horribly in factory farms. We originally took them from the harsh wild part of nature where they're constantly fearful of being hunted down and ripped apart while still alive and protected them and fed them, tried to keep them healthy, and slaughtered them as quickly as possible to minimize their pain. Factory farming changed that because we wanted to maximize output without worrying about the animals. But veganism isn't natural to us either. It'd be better to support the development of cultured/lab-grown meat instead, this way we can eventually have animal products without a single animal being killed for them. We'll hopefully respect them more and take better care of them if we stop seeing them as necessary for food.
Plenty of vegans and omnivores alike are saying that they'll eat cultured/lab-grown meat when it's available. It's something a lot of people are excited for and will be extremely interested in once it's available in your average grocery store. (Just make sure they don't alter the nutritional profiles of it, they're trying to say milk without lactose or red meat without iron is better)
Dylan Young
>preaches about ethics >pushes proprietary services and software on others why mane?
David Reyes
Are vegans tasty?
Asher Miller
Good posts.
Ayden Fisher
and when i asked for some sources or studies, no one bothered replying.
