Why do peeps talk so much shit about santoku?

Why do peeps talk so much shit about santoku?

Other urls found in this thread:

japanny.com/collections/shigeki-tanaka/products/shigeki-tanaka-17-layer-damascus-hand-forged-japanese-chef-s-gyuto-knife-180mm
amazon.com/WMF-Spitzenklasse-8-Inch-Chefs-Knife/dp/B003U9VT7Q
knivesandstones.com/damascus-vg10/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

It's overpriced for the steel quality

Nobody does? It's a valuable knife for any serious cook. Shun's are overpriced but they don't have the only santoku knife on the market.

Are you retarded?

It occupies a weird in-between space that's fine for home cooks but a lot of serious cooks don't care for. It's not as good as a nakiri or bunka for chopping, and it's not as good as a proper chef's knife for everything else. Anything you could do with a santoku you could do better and easier with other knives.

what is the absolute best chefs knife?????

The one in the hand of a decent chef.

Whichever one is most comfortable in your hand and doesn't have a bolster.

I'll probably cop shit for saying this, but F. Dick hands down. My old head chef had his for over 35 years at the point I started in his kitchen and they were mint.
I couldn't afford them on a first year apprentices wage so went with Wustof.

...

This. Any reasonable sharp blade can be used by a good cook. The performance goes up if they're used to the weight and angle, as well as sharpness, but it works well in any competent cooks' hands. And if it doesn't we either fix it or find a replacement.

I had a custom knife made for 50 more dollars, who the fuck buys these?

A lot of people think tools matter more than practice and skill and also think that higher price = higher quality

>F. Dick

Enjoy your T H I C C blade that gets stuck in everything.

...

Yes, this. I own several F. Dicks Premiers, from quite a large span of years. The old ones were very pretty good and made me into a fan initially, but the newer ones are horribly thick behind the edge and they don't even have an even profile. How you achieve an uneven profile with what I assume is completely robotized production is a mystery to em. They must have specifically programmed to robots for that, it's the only explanation. I cant really recommend thhe newer ones. Unless you intend to have them professionally thinnned - then the thicker steel makes it possible too achive a properly convex grind, unlike the Wüsthofs which come too thin from the factory for that.
Besides that F Dicks are in no way superior to Wüsthofs user.

nobody, nobody cares, nobody talks about knives
if i missed it and anybody does, they're fags
as long as it cuts things it's fine

>as long as it cuts things it's fine
That's what all people say who have never worked with a seriously good knife before. It turns prep from a chore into fun.

There is one thing that santokus are really good at, and that is cutting and dicing onions. You work with the tip a lot for that and the santoku makes it easier because it much shorter than a chef's knife (law of leverage), but at the same time it is as tall as a full sized chef's knife. It gives you ample knuckle clearance and the blade is also tall enough to scoop up the diced onnion bits and shovel them into the pot.

Japanese knives or go home.

>The knive scares the woman

Santokus don't mince fingers. There is a differential from the blade to the grip.

I bought the Shun premiere the other day. Still hasn't arrived yet. How hard did I get memed on Veeky Forums?

You got memed on. Generally, you can get better knives for around the same price if you look for the artisan knife brands from Japan. Shigeki Tanaka makes an excellent value, well-made VG-10 line, for example.

I sure hope you know how to sharpen it, though, otherwise any knife more than $20 is a bad purchase.

Here's a link for a Tanaka knife which I was talking about. Don't think it's the cheapest around, and knife handles vary by supplier, along with price.

japanny.com/collections/shigeki-tanaka/products/shigeki-tanaka-17-layer-damascus-hand-forged-japanese-chef-s-gyuto-knife-180mm

Santoku is a style of knife, not a steel you myopic cunt.

He means Shun's VG10, which they exclusively use to my knowledge. He is right, you can get much cheaper VG10 than what Shun offers. Even a factory brand like Ryusen will offer far better value than a Shun knife.

Hell, Suein is a better brand. Yeah it might chip on bone or shells, but at a lower rate than VG10. And it'll take 2-3 years of storage once you've got even a slight patina. Modern steel sucks.

It has a lifetime warranty and free sharpening as well. It really is a beautiful knife desu.

Read OP's post again. While he posted a Shun knife, he's asking why people talk shit about Santoku's. Theres nothing wrong with Santoku's, and Shuns, while expensive at $100 a knife, theres nothing wrong with them either.

They're a lot more than $100 a knife. But fair enough, I misread.

The free sharpening service is a nice bonus, but you have to send it via post - so you're looking at a few weeks at least before you get your knife back - and the knives'll stay sharp for about a month or two if you cook every day, and far less if you use it in a professional kitchen. It's better just to learn how to sharpen it yourself - on a whetstone, preferably, but anything that gets the job done is fine.

Yeah, Shun do make some very pretty knives. Regardless of the quality, their aesthetics are top-notch. I especially like Miyabi knives, although they're Henckels, not Shun

I have a global 7 inch santoku too as my primary knife now so it can always serve as a backup. Before I bought the shun, I really liked this knife but I ended up going for the bling. Have you heard anything about these? amazon.com/WMF-Spitzenklasse-8-Inch-Chefs-Knife/dp/B003U9VT7Q

I may get a whetstone at some point but I'm ok w/ the sharpening steel for the most part

The 'sharpening steel' - more appropriately called a honing steel - doesn't sharpen the knife, ie remove enough metal to form a new edge. It realigns the steel along the current edge that has bent and deformed over time. You can see this by taking a look at the edge of your knife - a perfectly sharp knife does not reflect light to the naked eye. Any spots on the edge that reflect light are dull spots.

Honing steels are good, but they perform a different function to whetstones. Eventually the steel along the edge will snap off thanks to fatigue - you know how on a can, if you fiddle with the opening tab at the top, it'll eventually snap off? Same thing with a knife. At that point, you must sharpen it.

Also, knives do not come as sharp as they can be from the factory. Cheap knives generally are too coarse to be used for push cutting, and high-end knives are generally finished on a buffing wheel, which leaves an edge so fine that the blade loses a lot of grip, and therefore slicing potential. To get your knife as sharp as it can be, you have to do it by hand. Not necessarily with a whestone - but by hand.

That's my autism build-up evacuated - I hope it helps you or anyone else reading this.

Now for the answer you ACTUALLY wanted - I haven't heard of those before, but I can give you an opinion looking at it now.

It's made from CrMoV15 steel. My only experience with this line has been 8CrMoV13 in a folding knife, and while it was a tough steel, it didn't have enough carbon nor a good enough heat treat to hold an edge finer than 1000 grit.
It may be worlds apart, given that they are different steels, but I would personally prefer to steer clear of it.

It's got a german profile - I personally like the german profile more than the french profile of knife; great for rock and cross chopping. The steeper belly makes it slightly harder to sharpen, I find. The full bolster will also make that a pain in the ass.

I'm of the opinion that it's not worth the money - but then again, I'm biased. I strongly recommend that you only buy cheap knives and treat them like consumables if you don't have any way to sharpen it. Every knife becomes dull and if you can't sharpen it, it makes prep work hell and is dangerous to boot.

With that being said, if you're set on it, there's nothing wrong with the knife. It looks like a perfectly functional knife, and what it lacks in aesthetics it makes up for in good value. The handle is also chamfered, so it'll be fairly comfortable, too. I can't see the weight listed, so I can't comment on that, but I'd assume it's fairly weighty compared to its Japanese counterpart, the Gyuto, and likely top-heavy in the hand.

I have 4 Shuns now, all over $100, however many are available under $100. Very sharp, good looking, and decent steel
>muh VG10
Its a fine steel, there is no "best" steel. Stop thinking the $20 knife with a "better" steel is better than a $140 Shun. Both will dice celery just fine.

You're jumping to conclusions here. I never said there was anything wrong with VG10, just that Shun knives are overpriced. And where the hell did I say anything about $20 knives having better steel than VG10? If you can find a VG10 knife for $20, you've got the find of the century right there.

I didn't mean to suggest such implications onto yourself, however the greatest hate upon Shun knives are they are $120ish dollars a piece. When asked how much those knives should cost, nobody can come up with an agreed upon price, other than "my $10 cutco can cut things just the same".

They're very pretty knives, and very good at what they claim. Very sharp, good steel, pretty, good quality, good warranty, widely available, durable, and everything else people want when they pay $120+ for a knife. Its expensive yes, but not unreasonable. Tell me where i'm wrong, and i'll show you a business opportunity.

I assume you're talking about the Sora line? They are good value for the money, although I can't say anything about their heat treatment. By all means, they're probably some of the better knives you can find relatively cheaply.

But when you start to get into the upper echelons of Shun's offerings, prices become VERY steep for little discernable difference, apart from aesthetics, whereas you can find both premium aesthetics, excellent steel and excellent construction elsewhere if you look.

For example, one of my favourite family lines is Sakai Takayuki's VG10 line. Every knife is forged individually - Sakai Takayuki being a "publisher" sort of brand that takes offerings from many different smiths and sells them under the Sakai Takayuki brand to increase sales potential - and they compromise with neither the gorgeous aesthetics nor the pricetag.

knivesandstones.com/damascus-vg10/

Keep in mind that prices on this site are in Aussie dollars, so they'll likely be a bit cheaper in USD.

nah, I've got a number of Classic edition knives with a gifted knife that looks nice but just isn't the same as the other classic handles. They're minimlaistic but very well done.

Ofc i'm talking about USD, who cares about digery doos or loonies or euros. "if you look" no, I mean the average retail outlet for finding common knives and buying them. I don't care about the zoroguyuishi-kun knife made of unobtainium for 13 strawpennies. It doesn't matter if the best knife in the world if its just not easily buyable.

The classic 8inch goes for $180 on Shun's website and at that price it competes with Tanaka's VG10 line, which I don't think it beats.

The site ships overseas. There's even an option to show prices in USD, which I only just noticed. I don't know what you're trying to achieve, but you only sound like a fool.

Its $145 on Amazon. Manufacturer or brand websites are regularly more expensive than EVERY retailer the sell from. I don't understand it.

They like onions and garlic sticking to their knives like faggots

>I don't care about the zoroguyuishi-kun knife made of unobtainium for 13 strawpennies
if you don't care about any of the knife's statistics and aren't willing to learn, why the fuck are you trying to argue about expensive knives

That's rather annoying. Anywho, at that price, once again I'd say that's worth the money - without knowing anything about the heat treatment, mind.

I quite like the Shun Premier's aesthetics, and the Shun Taiyo is drop-dead GORGEOUS.

Are all whetstones created equally or will a $20 one from amazon fuck the knives?

cheap but good, thanks Islamic Caliphate of Scandinavia

Look at the grit.

But yeah most are created equally. There's an adjustable tool to keep it level, but a damp rag works as well. Over years of use you could develop a curve or dip, but it takes a long time.

Apologies for the pic but this an imageboard and a lot of my files are corrupt for no damned reason.

Unlike knives, all whetstones are basically created equally. Higher grits are typically more expensive, but generally what you're paying for in an expensive whetstone is audible and tactile feedback.

A $20 stone from amazon will work just as fine as a $100 Chosera stone imported from Japan for the purposes of sharpening your knife.

HOWEVER, for the more advanced user, the grit level of the stone you sharpen on affects the finish on the edge of the knife. 320 grit leaves an incredibly coarse, visible scratch pattern, 1000 leaves a relatively smooth but non-reflective surface, 3000 leaves a gorgeous satin reflective finish, 8000 leaves a glossy highly reflective finish, 16000 leaves a perfect mirror finish... Only Shapton manufactures a 30,000 grit stone to my knowledge and that's only useful for straight razors, as you lose too much slicing power at that fine an edge.

Natural stones do the same job as synthetics, except the grit level isn't controlled - the same stone may vary from 1000 to 3000 grit in the slurry - and they're typically more expensive.

If you're looking to buy, my recommendations would be go for waterstones, and choose a pair of 1000 and 3000 grit stones, or a 1000/3000 combination stone. That will give you a coarse enough side for bevel-setting but not so coarse it strips too much metal, and a fine enough side to leave you with an excellent edge for cutting with.

You don't NEED a whetstone, though, technically. Anything with a hard, abrasive surface will do - you can get a knife to shave hair on a brick if you have the skill.

Or he could be talking about a diamond coated sharpening steel ...

I forgot about them. I have used one before - borrowed one off a friend to try it out at work.

They're just not very good. They don't strip steel fast enough to be good for sharpening, but because they ARE abrasive, getting the angle you slide the blade at wrong will create a new bevel and fuck up the geometry of the edge.

Thanks for all the great info brehs, I really appreciate it.

Do whetstones always make a "nails on a chalkboard" sound when you use them? I tried watching a video of someone sharpening their knives and it made me too uncomfortable to watch with sound

No, they don't always. I don't know what causes that sound - I've only ever had it happen a few times myself - but from what I've heard, it might be something to do with the flatness of the stone? I've no idea, but I can definitely tell you it hasn't happened often to me.

Thank god, what a relief. That sound gives me goosebumps.

It isn't a pleasant sound at all, no. Make sure you lubricate your stones though - oil for oilstones and water for waterstones - because I'd bet money that it has something to do with a lack of lubrication as well.

Don't press. Or go at too thin of an angle. Scrathes can often just be cosmetic if you've been doing it for over an hour. You can always buy a 'beater' from some site like BudK if they're still around.

I had a lot of fun heat-treating a cheap-ass blade from them before resharpening, It sounds deranged, but steel should be fun.

How did that work out? I've never even thought of heat-treating a beater. Did the steel in the knife even have enough carbon to hold a fine edge? Were you happy with the results?

It worked really well actually. I used an old fashioned guide to what color it should be at night and then dipped it in mineral oil. The edge wasn't magical, but better than most blades.

Then the handle fell off. So I made a wrap out of hardened twine. And eventually snapped it at the tang.

Fun and I learned a lot for under 20 dollars total.

Hahaha. Was the fault in the tang due to abuse or was it general use that caused it to fail?

Reason I ask is because this sounds like a great idea. If you can simply heat treat a beater and improve of all its overflexibility and edge retention issues... That would have been really handy when I was working the line.

Chucking it through bales of hay, often ending in the oak tree behind, probably did not help it.

In my defense, I was a teen. And it was definitely harder than most knives, just a little brittle my fellow cook. I wouldn't recommend hitting bone or using the backside to break ice around the deep-freezers' condensers.

I suppose a beater that couldn't take the more abusive tasks is by useless by definition. Still, it'd be a neat little experiment. Did you just use an oven or what? I've not ever hardened a knife before.

There are various ways to do it listed online, and what temperatures it looks like in the dark. Oddly enough, a brass-headed propane torch worked but only because I moved the knife and torch all the time to ensure even heating,

Google this. It's fascinating. Or was a decade and a half ago.

I will do so. Thank you friend.

>tfw have to use 20$ knife set from target, too poorfag to buy new knives.

A $20 knife set is perfectly functional, user. If someone asked me what kind of knife they should get with a budget of $120, I'd say spend $20 on a knife and $100 on whetstones.

Try sharpening on a brick or something if you don't already. Worlds of difference.

We have a 5" and 7" Wusthof santoku in our kitchen set. The 5" is the knife my wife uses the most. I use the 6" serrated bread knife the most. Love that thing. I don't think we have a single knife that we spent more than $70. Perfectly fine for a home kitchen of amateur cooks.

It was 20$ for a full set. Might be a good idea to invest in a whetstone though. Thanks user.

This is why people stop commenting in this shithole. You're not worth information.

Care to explain why you think that way?

I have a whetstone that I've used successfully on my traditional chef's knives
I was gifted a Shun knife recently with a much smaller blade angle, and I'm honestly scared to use the stone on it. But their mail sharpening service takes awhile. Is there some way to know i'm at the correct angle?

sharpening at the wrong angle isn't going to destroy your knife. It'll give you a sharper or duller bezel which will either be more fragile or more blunt.

I actually use my entry-level 8" Shun Sora chef's knife more than anything else in my collection--including a couple pricey santokus and a Shun Classic chef's knife. I just feel more at ease fucking around with my easy-going budget Shun. The two santokus I own are mostly for decoration these days.

>doesn't have a bolster
Thank you. My parents gave me a Wüsthof set a few years back and within a couple months of dealing with bolsters I stored them my basement. They only come out is when my parents visit. I need to check with my favorite local professional sharpening service to see if they can remove bolsters.

Don't worry too much about getting the right angle. Concern yourself more with keeping the same angle once you've chosen it.

As long as you don't sharpen above 20 degrees, chances are pretty good you're going to be very satisfied with the edge you create.

my $9 stainless steel knife from ikea works just as well. just needs sharpening more often. i've owned all kinds of chef knives. santoku is a meme

Rounding the bevel is the biggest problem. Wet the stone, tip the blade until you see water from the edge. That's your sharpening angle. Relax your wrist and work it back and forth at that fixed angle.

a sharp one

Thanks for the thoughtful posts bros. I really enjoyed this thread. Could talk about this shit all day desu.