What's the answer to Post-Modernism?

both pomo and hypersincerity are victims to these problems. that's what i was trying to put out there.

What's a good word for the undoing of what postmodernism hath wrought? Whatever sticks and best describes that is what comes next, not this silly hypersincerity bullshit.

it's already here.

Says who? If it's already here it'll be one of those minor inter-period blips people later realize was forced and produced forgettable examples of work ... and Fight Club, more memorable as a movie and a book and by now already quite dated. Think bigger.

Why is seemingly everyone in my generation so obsessed with sincerity and authenticity? It borders on the pathological.

*than a book.

I simply regard what presently counts as 'contemporary' to be the moment in the history of thought that comes after post-modernism.

Do you like being deceived?

Sincerity is honesty with yourself
Honesty is sincerity with others.
If you're not honest with yourself it compromises your sincerity with others. You can be perfectly honest with another person, but express an inwardly dishonest feeling. If you're not sorted out, the shit you say will be marked by it.
And he was quoting Gaddis, btw.

>hypersincerity
what did he mean by this

is this paranoia

i am confused

This is starting to sound like hyperemotional numaletry to me. Seems to be promoting a weak and feminine ideal; not that sincerity is bad, but listen to this guy: ... (nothing to do with you personally, it just on the face of it sounds cringe).

I'm curious about where some of you guys are getting these ideas. Because as much as some want to believe movements like postmodernism are/were organic, they're really not, and certain parties have an interest in promoting certain ideas.

>le manly man don't not have feelz feelz meme

>I'll say it again. You have to completely drop all Marxist and poststructuralist theory if you want to start to get a sense of our times. Otherwise, you limit your vision to terms that by their structure will always collapse the present into the terms and politics of the past. For my part, I don't have that problem.
But how are you supposed to come to know things without fitting them into things you know based off prior experiences?

I agree, my diary is the seminal work of this century.

The answer to postmodernism is acceleration. We do not deconstruct or attempt any discovery. We construct artifice upon artifice, endlessly and needlessly.

The coming artistic movement in the west will involve strength, acknowledgement of the importance of identity, and a return to noble European idealism. We're past this new age emotional bullshit. It had its day, but self-indulgent, feminized modes of thinking become old fast and ultimately lead nowhere.

Lying is warping reality for the sake of avoiding responsibility. How is that feminine? How is being a woman bad? How is honesty in any way bad? Fuck me you're dumb.

You're just a shallow thinker and probably a low-t beta male. Being a woman of course isn't bad, but indulging in feminine over-emotionality is the opposite of what's now needed. And it's not what will determine the future. Stop being a femboy.

active pessimism. The telos of life is recognizing how pointless and painful it is, just as the telos of an oil slick is to be mopped up.

and in this instance gaddis was being a twat.
hypersincerity is sincerity out of spite, not for honesty's sake, but to project truth even when harmful for the sake of defying deconstructivism and post-modernism, which is inherently full of lies, sarcasm, and irony.
that guy was a faggot. don't worry about the faggots. hypersincerity is the pursuit of truth in a knowingly truthless world.
look at it this way, if post-modernism shows us that all the truths we hold were merely lies we told ourselves, and projects that concept itself as though it were a governing truth of humanity, that chaos reigns, it's inherently hypocritical. it's downright lying. defy the liars, the deconstruction of art and meaning and love and worship, defy it not for emotion's sake, but for the sake of humanity, its history, and its future.
i can't wait for you to publish it.
talk about lying to one's self and projecting shit. Liars are cowards who slink away from reality in fear from consequence and responsibility. You are taking measure for your own suit of ignominy.

i like it, good shit

well if you want to be a moody molly be my guest. can't mop up a mess without people like you crying over it first.

This weak-minded, nihilistic attitude is merely a reflection of western civilization's present state of decline and signify the end of the demoralizing postmodern era. That's why the ensuing movement will be a postmodern reversal and involve a return to strength and classical idealism. Dig yourselves out of your holes and get on board.

>You are taking measure for your own suit of ignominy.
Stop writing like a tool and learn how to make better arguments.

i don't argue with cowards like you. i chastise them.

Well, you failed at both.

is hyper sincerity theatre of cruelty redux

Hypersincerity would align with eschatology. I'd say it is the only way to bring forth the ultimatum of man.

What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence? People love to hold onto their comforting illusions of purpose and redemption and transcendence because they are weak-minded. And at its worst this manifests in the purest nihilism of all such as what you'll find in the french existentialists and which is covered up much better in the clarion call of Nietzsche and his perfidious language. Namely that we'll simply deliberately sit here and delude ourselves that we shall create some kind of purpose for ourselves and then proceed as though we are not actually just begging the question.

Meanwhile there is no conflation to be had between pessimism and nihilism because pessimism does recognize value, just not the of the kind people like. Its not nihilistic to say the cost of living in terms of both physical disutility and somewhat even more significantly, confusion and existential turmoil, is too high. Its not nihilistic to turn away from all our instincts no matter how it might grieve us. Its practically religious .

Some people like to lie to themselves when confronted with truth. They are called cowards. No wonder you're so intent on establishing sincerity and honesty as an over emotional and feminine beta male trait. it would conveniently ensure you never have to worry about being honest with anyone or yourself.

>What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence?
Sincerely: The guardsman in Pompeii, the life of Christ.
Ironically: To see the uselessness of strength.

you say active pessimism though. why bother with the pessimistic viewpoint? i understand that it might save you from being disappointed if things don't work, but to intentionally subscribe to the idea that your endeavors though righteous will all be for nothing doesn't make much sense to me. i don't think you're at odds with Hypersincerity though. it just seems one of the avenues of alignment for someone in the era itself.

>because they are weak-minded
This would be a positivist illusion. You want to see yourself as superior, despite claiming that no such thing exists.
You are breaking the rules you set, as all nihilism does.

>What could be more strong-minded than accepting the terms of a meaningless and actually very bad existence?
Not accepting the terms of a meaningless and bad existence, and forging a strong mindset and future outlook that promotes positive ideals.

so is no one going to ask why the OP has a copy of Tristram Shandy with pulled teeth on it?

why the OP has a copy of Tristram Shandy with pulled teeth on it?

i took it when i got my teeth pulled out and it was the book i was reading at the time. it's a neat picture i think. take what symbolism you will. maybe that tristram shandy was the beginning of postmodernism as a style in literature, (in the broad sense) and one must confront reality to begin the new era, a sometimes painful act, akin to pulling teeth? i dunno man.

Your psychological inversion tactics are ineffective, and you yourself are lying, so what does that tell you? I never said sincerity and honesty are weak traits in themselves; I said that an artistic movement based around such things is weak and will lead nowhere.

Look at these insincere proponents of New Sincerity lol. Off to a bad start, I'd say.

*wisdom teeth
for added symbolism?
i guess symbols can be trouble though, tools of deception.

yes yes, obviously you're gunning for a back and forth. i don't argue with cowards, man.

Not that user but you are trying way too hard. Masculinity has nothing to do with this self-affirming bravado you're trying to use to paint a masculine veneer. A man uses his words to communicate his thoughts and doesn't feel above asking questions and acknowledging criticism without swinging his dick around.
You sound like the bratty child of a single mom, too used to getting his way.

That being said, explain why you associate sincerity with emotions, why you associate emotions with demoralization but not idealism, and why you think idealist values apply on an individual level with the same congruence as values established by the individuals in question. Also define "strength" as you're using the term.

Love

>responding to the dude who posted a picture of Cioran by telling him he's contradicted himself
O I am laffin

Because you have no argument and what you're trying to make a case for is DOA. Enjoy the rest of your day.

>why bother with the pessimistic viewpoint? i understand that it might save you from being disappointed if things don't work, but to intentionally subscribe to the idea that your endeavors though righteous will all be for nothing doesn't make much sense to me

For one thing its true and anything that I recognize as true I'm irresistibly compelled to believe in. Generally you don't just choose beliefs on the basis of their convenience.

You know what? That might be a good argument to use against a nihilist.

pretty sure these are three different people. i'm the one calling that guy accusing people of being feminine low t beta males a coward. i can't speak for the other two. i don't associate emotion with sincerity as a necessity. it can be involved or not. Hypersincerity isn't just an art form in my opinion. i assume you're the pessimist, and i made certain to say that you are not in conflict with Hypersincerity, but rather a part of it. a type pf person who lives in such an era. i'm a bit of a pessimist myself, but i do it so i won't be disappointed by assuming the worst, and so i can be pleasantly surprised when i'm wrong. Hypersincerity is more against the postmodern deconstruction of art and morality.

>post a picture of a guy
>I must agree with all his ideas

No in fact, I think his rejection of moral value is crap.

>313
Eschatology, as in Revelations, Tribulations. When else could man be pushed for the mark? If you wouldn't be sincere in taking it. Or the rule of the antichrist, when else should you be sincere to the fullest? When else would the jews dare show their nature, but with their messiah?

You should try to stop living by Hollywood cliches and feeling discomfort at the slightest hint of masculine identity. That will get you nowhere, and the greatest men have always combined masculine and intellectual ideals; they are not mutually exclusive. And I did not raised by a single mom, I was raised by two loving parents. Stop playing games.

There is no new sincerity. That's not what's next in line. The west is facing crises in every sense, and we will not overcome those through "new sincerity," -- because it's not answer to current problems. Now, I understand the desire to romanticize these things, but that will ultimately accomplish nothing and exacerbate the existent rot caused by postmodernism.

It's not a terrible step to take, I suppose, but as I said in my first post, the people who are promoting it here are thinking too narrowly. There's something much bigger happening right now.

whatever you want to make yourself feel better, coward.
i guess a pessimistic viewpoint is just a matter of the subject. i don't know that all we do is meaningless. that's exactly what i'm trying to fight against.

>Hypersincerity is more against the postmodern deconstruction of art and morality.
The narrow thinking I'm talking about in point.

on what foundation do you suggest morality, art, philosophy, etc be built upon besides sincerity? if not honesty, what?

then you're aiming for something beyond morality of humanity? his art which reflects his being and the world around him? those things are narrow? how in the fuck are these narrow aspects of humanity?

You will continue to not be taken seriously if you run around calling people names, making non-arguments, and not using proper capitalization.

On identity and cultural heritage, those will comprise the foundation of the future movement we're discussing; sincerity and honesty are merely smaller components of that -- they are not foundations.

>says the person who calls people shallow low t beta males
what a prick you are.

Small picture narrow; not narrow as in meaningless. You're looking at a couple of ingredients with a magnifying glass, I'm telling you to back up and look at the dish they're a part of.

Hit that shift button before the "w" ... it's not that hard. Do you want others to take your opinions seriously and not think you're a 14 year old girl? Then stop typing like one.

Identity and cultural heritage will rot away just like the corpses of all your long dead forefathers. Weaklings like you, clinging to some kind of perverted idea of stability, will be swept away by the same all-encompassing decay that feeds on everybody. The only difference will be that we will be laughing, fucking and taking in every single moment of the great downfalls to come, while you will be choking on stale prayers directed at corroded bones.

See you on the other side.

Nope that's not me. This is a clusterfuck of a thread but I think I was aiming at this wonderful individual. You and I are more or less on the same page, if not at least the same book.
I have no idea what you're on about
>You should try to stop living by Hollywood cliches and feeling discomfort at the slightest hint of masculine identity. That will get you nowhere, and the greatest men have always combined masculine and intellectual ideals; they are not mutually exclusive. And I did not raised by a single mom, I was raised by two loving parents. Stop playing games.
You should stop telling me who I am on an anonymous image board based on two or three comments. In fact you should just stop telling everyone who they are because you're so far off base I don't care enough to reel you back in and I couldn't imagine they would either. Just talk.
>There is no new sincerity. That's not what's next in line. The west is facing crises in every sense, and we will not overcome those through "new sincerity," -- because it's not answer to current problems. Now, I understand the desire to romanticize these things, but that will ultimately accomplish nothing and exacerbate the existent rot caused by postmodernism.
I didn't even mention new sincerity. I am not an advocate of new sincerity and I probably know more about it than you do considering I'm an actual Veeky Forums oldfag and you're just some immigrant who heard about pomo within the week.
>It's not a terrible step to take, I suppose, but as I said in my first post, the people who are promoting it here are thinking too narrowly. There's something much bigger happening right now.
You're on a literature board, not a politics board. "Everything" that "happens" does so on an individual level. You are talking with individuals about honesty, sincerity, ideals, and the like from the perspective of your Self, your life. Kind of strange that I have to point that out.
If you have a stronger artistic foundation than sincerity I'd surely like to hear about it

sincerity is a foundation itself. identity and cultural heritage rely on sincerity. they are well under the category of art and morality/philosphy. the reason all of these things are undermined by postmodernism and deconstruction is they're fucking lies. the lies that you hear on the news each day, the lies husband and wife tell each other, the lies are the foundation, and the result is a fucking cornucopia, a fractal of lies that come as the end result. the seeping lies that have infected modern society are the reason for the chaos today. sincerity opposes those lies. it's that simple. it seems a small thing to repel a huge problem, but all things have a fundament. all aspects of man have a simple seed.

The morose individual behind this post is representative of what postmodernism gave us. It embodies nihilism and our cultural sickness, conveyed through what is surely a disturbed individual who can see no brightness at the end of the tunnel and desires to pull others into his hole.

This is not, however, who the fight will be against, since this person and those like him will die childless and alone, and our collective genes will be better off.

>founding absolutely anything at all on human identity
Jesus Christ read a fucking book

Magic?

>When, under the authority of the sciences, one speaks of the uncanny and weird effects of particles acting at a distance in quantum mechanics; or the anomalous existence of temporary particles that come into and out of existence; or the entanglement of particles across vast worlds one never mentions the word magical. Instead we mask it with both mathematical equations and technological measurements and speak of the power of science as true, while the old magical universe of sympathy is shriven of its ancient power. If magic is at heart the discovery and manipulation of sympathy: action at a distance – then isn’t science after all a theory of magic that disguises it’s magical praxis?

>We need more, we need to push past the safety nets of thought that bind us and keep us within the secure circle of civilization as we’ve known it. Yet, we need to swim back at the same time and understand the counter-praxis of all those intellectuals of the past who formed counter-hegemonic theories of reality against the mainstream cultures of their era. We are no alone in this endeavor, many have died and sparked the hatred and animosity of mainstream reality makers across the past two-thousand years. When ancient Rome aligned State Power and Religion under Constantine a fierce reality system would be shaped that would shape the forces of Western Civilization for thousands of years. Only in the past two-hundred years has that old regimes of religious and state power been challenged by another extreme: Secularism. And, yet, in our own moment the secular atheistic worldview seems teetering on the edge of apocalypse. Why? In some ways because it did not go far enough

>Where will it take us? The old mythologies of secularism of which Democracy and Communism and Fascism were the outgrowth are dead and dying, but nothing is in the offing, no plan, no initiative, no map or program. Both the Left and Right are bankrupt and they know it. Isn’t this what the Singularity truly means? This movement into the impossible and unknown, uncharted waters of non-thought? Are we not moving into a realm that has no map, no navigational system to guide us. All the ideologies spawned since the Enlightenment are of no use, the maps of anarchist or communist, democracy or autocracy will not help us now.

>We are alone, unbound by the old legacies of Western philosophical anchors or religious-magico systems. For man this is a good thing, for it means we must invent out of our own ignorance a new way forward. Experience the new as a force of chaos and creation. We must for the first time in history invent the possibility of possibility. If magic was a form of binding, then maybe what we need now is a meta-magical system of unbinding. One that can unbind our minds from the illusions and delusions of both ancient and modern systems of enslavement, and allow us to create and invent something new beyond the human enclaves of this prison world we live in.

>quibbling over capitalization
get the fuck over yourself, son. if your hangups are so fragile as to worry over a lowercase letter, then you're obviously the type of person unable to carry on an honest conversation.
i am glad we have some shared ground, which is much more useful than arguing over capitalization and how masculine or feminine things are.
could you expand on the concept of active pessimism? at least in relation to postmodernism?

By rhe emotional fit you display here, I'd say new sincerity is perfect for you.

No.
The answer is no.

Point to me where DFW said anything about "new sincerity"

toto git out

You have no idea what postmodernism is. It is somewhat hilarious how you try to blame something for the erosion of meaning and purpose when those things are unstable in and of themselves. You are a scared child.

By the way, I am a teacher. I form your children. I don't need to reproduce to continue my bloodline, your spawn will carry my ideas into the rancid future.

I agree with nearly all of what you're saying, but think your emphasis on sincerity is slightly misguided. It's a very important aspect and I can understand why one would think it is antithetical to the current age, since in many ways it is. But sincerity is a distinctly Europe virtue that will always be present within true art, so building a ideological model around it alone is what I take issue with. I don't see it as a foundation, but a European virtue that should and will be an important component in any ideological framework.

This triggers the physicist.

maybe not the exact term, but

The next real literary “rebels” in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that’ll be the point. Maybe that’s why they’ll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today’s risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the “Oh how banal”. To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows.

I'm not having an emotional fit I'm eating sunflower seeds and playing videogames on a Sunday afternoon.
Now I'm gonna have to ask you to define new-sincerity, concisely, and without attacking me or anyone else, and without pointing to the effects of it. You know, like a real definition. Shouldn't be difficult for anyone with a rudimentary understanding of it.
I wasn't the pessimism guy, that was someone else

Identity will be the foundation moving forward, because it is what's under attack.

Another very sick person, and another embodiment of the soul-rot caused by the ideology that brought us deconstruction. These people are fucked up and hopeless because they've been deconstructed.

well, i can settle with that, i don't think there's much more than sincerity to it, and i don't know why sincerity or honesty is a primarily western term or concept, but i can tell we're not aiming for opposing goals. whatever the new manifestation of truth and righteousness might be called, Hypersincerity or otherwise, the effort will be the prime aspect of it. the acknowledgement of postmodernism as a dangerous and cynical mode of art and philosophy engendered by the bitter who ruled the world of ideas.

>playing videogames
Strength of mind and character will never be achieved if one cannot cease acting like a child.

Hahaha, like a discount Peterson. I wish I could meet people like you in real life.

hey i like sunflower seeds too.

Right. And what that movement will represent is the mending of what postmodernism tried to deconstruct, as European man realizes that he does not have to be a wayward individualist in search for truth he will never find in a dark and meaningless world, but that he is part of a group that is responsible for the greatest artistic and scientific achievements of all time, and must now band together with his brothers to defend his land against the third world hordes storming and plundering his nation. And through this struggle, he will realize his greatness again. That is what will be represented through the future movement just now budding. Sincerity will play a part, but the scope is much bigger.

This has to be the cringiest LARP I have ever seen here.

Mulatto?

This is what I'm talking about. This is what everyone is talking about.
I'm a college graduate with two STEM degrees and more hobbies than I can juggle, a healthy social life, and before you ask, yes my room is clean. I just got home from church and I'm too tired to do anything but not tired enough to sleep so I've decided to play videogames for the first time in weeks.
And yet this cheap nobody hits me with
>Strength of mind and character will never be achieved if one cannot cease acting like a child.
You have no understanding of people. Stop imitating someone obviously far beyond your depth.

no, i am a mulatto though, OP here.

No. I am white as fuck.

Assuming you're white, I'm very happy for your success, and I mean that -- no pun intended -- sincerely. I apologize for letting my personal disgust for video games and (let's be honest -- usually correct) assumptions about those who play them color what I said. Enjoy your down time.

Act like it.

If "acting white" means being a manchild that LARPS as a crusader on a congalese rifle shooting platform then I would rather not, thank you. You go be white, I'll go be an actual human rather than a caricature.

it's a shame that a bit of mud in my flesh ruins any chance for me to exist in the bright new future envisioned.

such is the benefit of Hypersincerity, it is not all inclusive to damn racist fool laws. it acknowledges my inherent inferiority and moves along, instead of lying, pretending that brown people will dissolve into nothingness. i am willing to accept my flawed existence, why not you? it's only the responsible thing.

Okay, enjoy yourself. Hopefully one day you'll realize that some things are more important than others, and that "humanity" doesn't have your back.

Thanks, buddy. You enjoy your games as well.