I don't understand the devil. I've heard that satan, lucifer, etc. are all different people...

I don't understand the devil. I've heard that satan, lucifer, etc. are all different people? Is lucifer basically the god of the earth? whats his end goal? Someone pls explain.

I'm talking Christianity btw

Have you ever read the Silmarillion? Satan is Melkor. He wants to be God.

depends on which bible fanfic you read

He takes on a bunch of different names

Satan is the accuser and the tempter. He roams the world like a lion, tearing down everything he can. Lucifer is the wisest and most beautiful of the angels. Or was, until he wanted to become God.

Satan is hebrew for enemy. The only time he's really personified is in Job. Otherwise its game theory-tier postured to make demons a set of actual people.

Well if the answer of why evil exists is that God gives us the choice to do evil so that we may become more virtuous, than Lucifer wants good to exist only so that you do what is base. Lucifer wants to create the most evil world possible and so he maintains God's will by helping with the central planning and systematic othering and basically keeping organised religions running smoothly. His end goal is not to end humanities suffering but prolong it forever, and thus to create hell individually. Kind of a plan that God said Ok to without really liking it, but knowing it was the only logical method. Sorta sucked, but who's God to struggle with the IT dept. So, yeah. That's bout that.

The devil is non-existence (ie: evil), just as God is existence (ie: good). The spectrum from being to non-being is a wild colourful dialectic, sometimes giving the appearance that the devil is an active part of existence, but this is an illusion caused by actually existing beings being "possessed" by him. Falling for this illusion often leads to you getting "possessed" in turn, getting you sucked down in to death. Thats my take, anyway.

He's a little bitch
Samuel is the real boss

If the devil wants people to sin wouldn't the best thing to do be to not punish people in hell at all so that noone's afraid of it?

Yahweh ('Lord' or maybe 'Lord God' in the Bible) is the 'God of The Earth'
Read genesis, about 1:20 to 3:20. First God creates the birds in the sky, and the wild beasts etc - then Lord God creates the birds in the sky and the wild beasts etc.
This goes in line with the Gnostic view

>While this True God did not fashion or create anything, He (or, It) “emanated” or brought forth from within Himself the substance of all there is in all the world

>This being, unaware of his origins, imagined himself to be the ultimate and absolute God. Since he took the already existing divine essence and fashioned it into various forms, he is also called the Demiurgos or “half-maker” There is an authentic half, a true deific component within creation, but it is not recognized by the half-maker
-Gnosis.org

The truth not recognized by the half maker is the same truth given by the serpent. Another one is Lucifer (the light bringer)

How is Samuel any kind of boss?

Wolves kill deer. The deer caucus decays on the forest floor giving life to billions of microflora, millions of insects and these insects feed the birds etc which feed other creatures and so on. The devil is like this wolf and good cannot exist without evil. Mankind confuses and corrupts the truth of god by being biased against suffering and death. Once you understand the necessity of death, darkness and so on you will see that all is one god is satan and vice versa and that religions manipulate you for your money and lie to you and generally are useless. One can get a much clearer understanding of god's plan from observing his creation (nature) than by observing man's creation (religion)

Carcass not caucus *

Then would it really be sin, and would it really be hell? Look at it this way:

To love something is to take joy in it, God wants you to take joy in existence. The devil wants you to have a shitty time, thereby defiling existence.

Why would god create his own foil? He wouldn't. Satan is defining existence he is giving it a great part of its substance. Christ came to earth to teach people how to actually manipulate existence through knowledge and faith. I believe that Christ was God's adversary and that is why God's chosen people had him killed and then created the false doctrine of "Christianity" to conceal the truth.

Quote the proof of that.

This thread sufficiently demonstrates why dogma is necessary.

Daily reminder that protestantism killed christianity.

satan, devils, witches... all heresy

A Monk read through the Bible and saw lots of villains. He said "What if the entity that tempts Christ in the desert, the snake from the garden, the Babylonian king Helel, the Pharaoh from Egypt, and basically every other antagonist in the Bible was just one character?"

Then he collated them all together, and many years later Paradise Lost was written and pseuds think it's canon for some bizarre reason.

Are you sure it's because of Paradise Lost?

The Lord and God are different characters that have been made one in canon since before Paradise Lost.

I don't know what your trying to say here. try being more lucid.

quote what? scripture? no because I don't care, and it would mean nothing

just be yourself bro, the only dogma u need

wouldn't worry about it, concept of canonicity is just some nerd shit anyway.

Are you dumb or just a fucking idiot?
Canon is just a term. This is religious text. It has had more impact on the world then anything that came out of your mom's cunt - you, your kids, and on and on - put together.

I'm talking about looking at what it really says without any of the bias that's been attributed to it.

only post in this thread that makes even a little sense

Except it's not supported by scripture.

>caucus

t. Satan

Satan just means enemy in Hebrew.

On the other hand Lucifer AKA Apollo based god of aesthetics and the sublime is real and his goal is to liberate humanity.

It's the same as Yahweh and Elohim, they have different names because they were drawn from different sources, but serve the same function in the narrative, so we conflate them to be the same character because for all intents and purposes they are, but they still retain unique personalities, so to speak, from the original sources they're drawn from, even once they're integrated into the bible qua canon

>he thinks Yahweh and Elohim are the same for all intensive purposes

Yahweh is just the "God of Hosts" aka of battles.
The Elohim (plural) were a race of highly advanced aliens.

So who's the good guy: Lucifer or God?

Good and evil is a meme, they just have different goals.
"God" envisions a universe of crystalline perfection, with all the beauty and tyranny that implies. Lucifer wants humanity to be free.

>whats his end goal

To fuck with his creation

His end goal is to stop censure of hentai genitalia.

so, in the most simplified understanding I can express from my own knowledge:

Lucifer- 'Light Bringer' or 'The Morning Star' in some texts, known for being the most beautiful of God's creations,an Angel that rebelled against god in what became known as the 'war in heaven' where he questioned god sometimes for declaring humans his chosen people, other times because he wanted power. Was banished from heaven and is doomed to wander the earth until the end times, when he shall stand judgement.

Satan- Translation is 'Opposition/ Adversary', while modern interpretations portray him as a singular entity, there are some text translations that suggest it is merely a moniker worn by those who act as a sounding born for the writer to demonstrate how good God's logic is. Take from that what you will.

Devil- Little muddier on this one. Most texts I read have him essentially functioning as both Lucifer and Satan, a wannabe usurper who was banished to the lake of fire for his transgressions. He is essentially the less-than-ultimate evil, as in Judeo-Christian beliefs, God will always be the most powerful (Southpark did a joke on that I think with the devil and wrestling but I digress).

This is all from my research when i was going to write a story about the children of angels but abandoned it because I think it's too religious to appeal to a wide audience like I wanted, so my mind is a little fuzzy on some of this.

he can't be so bad then

God confirmed to be the Occuria and Lucifer confirmed to be Venat and co.

Apollo or Prometheus

Yahweh is God as it applies to the physical / people.

>most texts
Only one text matters on the subject

SEE:

>only one text

That's rather dismissive. that would be like saying that say, 'only one text matters on the subject of Hercules/ herakles'
There were many texts that were either removed from the bible with reformations or added as publishing became more and more available to the common people in conjunction with the rise of literacy.
Early hebrew texts, for example, were eventually compiled into the old testament, and the texts that became the bible are even more confusing as different readings of the text can infer different teachings.

My point is you cannot dismiss all other texts since christian texts and materials are extrapolated from a variety of resources. ie Catholic vs Baptist (boy that was a fun dinner)

You're going to go to hell

Good that's where all the fun people will be

>thinking he'll still be fun after getting tortured night and day with no sleep

My parents say Hitchen is getting gang raped by Satan and his demons

>thinking acts of torture retain differentiation from an eternal stasis of torture

As a frail human I could accustom myself to many tortures after years of application. So imagine all the more the supreme edgelord I'd be after literally an eternity of it.

You'll be completely dissociated and mentally gone after the first day of experiencing real pain, you fucking autist

Its all in the Divine Comedy and John Milton, the actualy Bible is so fucking boring. Would be so much better with a strong Devil character. I mean God acknowledges there are other Gods and he's just the God of the Jews, so why not have a super powerful Devil

Doesn't that defeat the point?

No. Your actual life force - in such disconnection to the Holy- gets transferred to Satan and brings us closer to the apocalypse.

Sounds pretty metal

Samael is the... boss.

Didn't the actual Satan (or Lucifer, don't know which is which) not give a shit about freedom and basically just resent being asked to bow before Adam and humanity, who he considered inferior to angels?

citation needed

He's a fucking windmill like at the end of Inferno you fucking psueds.

I haven't actually read the Bible, and I'm not claiming any authority. I've just heard a few of those "but actually..." type guys say it before.

How did you arrive at this theory, exactly? Any readings you can suggest that relate to your post?

I doubt that's in scripture. From scripture alone it looks like the Serpent was trying to do a good thing, but [God or The Lord, I forget] doesn't want them to be as powerful as him.

This happens again when the humans try to build Babel and reach heaven.

If you were to took a person who knew nothing of religion or the term God or the Good/Evil dichotomy then had them read at least the OT, they would probably come out wanting to rebel against God desu. Especially if you told them that the narrators were unreliable, and to read between the lines.

I think the Bible is at least partly mythical though. Samuel is an example of something I think is literal (though I read it only once, when I was 20). Job shows that the heavenly plane is mental because when God tests Job, it comes in the form of bandits and fires.

David seems to be the best in that book.
>anointed rebel king
>implied he robbed caravans
>threatens to kill someone who disrespects him, that person dies of fright, he takes the guys wife for his own as is second wife

Subjective bullshit people come up with to interpret canon over scripture

that's actually a great description.

The "but actually" thing is that there is nothing in the Bible itself that suggests the serpent, Satan (of Job), Lucifer, or the devil (of NT) are the same.

Same with Yahweh / Lord and God. 'Lord God" might be his own thing in Hebrew as well

Just to make this clear, I'm not just being edgy.

The first time The Lord God is mentioned in genesis, the first thing he does is create the plants etc etc. He does this after God as already created it.

It coincides what the Gnostics apparently believe so that's interesting.

ad hominem.
If i wear cotton and linen i shall also be going to hell.
Also eating shrimp is an abomination

More like fact..

That is not how it works ya goof.
the apocalypse shall be a revelation that bestows god's final judgement upon the earth.
The devil/satan is not the lord of hell, he is it's first and foremost prisoner. Upon the rapture, all souls worthy of heaven shall be brought into gods light and all those who have sinned shall be cast from him into the lake of fire.

Dude, I'm not even religious but get your facts straight if your gonna troll around on a board dedicated to literature.

wasnt the whole point of the NT and Jeshua Lebbitz sacrifice that christians didnt need to obey that stupid shit anymore?

'it is done' references the fact that everything prior to Jesus' word has been fulfilled and paid for (the first sin, consuming the apple),. however, Jesus' words of 'The only way to come through the father is through me, i am the way' is still canon, so depending on the version and translation of the bible, yes and no.

Gnostic believe that Lucifer is a more advanced version of God

Here's the thing about Satan that makes him sound made up. God is all powerful and all knowing, which means he intentionally created Satan knowing what kind of shit the nigger would do, as part of his plan. God already knows what you're gonna do before you do it, and because he is infinitely powerful, he is directly responsible for your actions through neglect. He set you up to fail and he created a demon to fucking consume your soul whenever you do. Sounds like a bunch of shit to me. I'm not worshipping a god so cruel as that.

That's basically what The Wizard of Oz is about

>""people"" actually believe this and have their thoughts and lives revolve around it
Imagine being that much of a brainlet. Just imagine.
inb4 butthurt christlards posting retarded fat fedora images

this always seems like such a stupid line of reasoning to me. if god was real and spiteful, what kind of moron picks an infinite of suffering because they don't like him?

So God is a fascist and Lucifer is an anarchist. I'm with Lucy.

"Lucifer" has nothing to do with the devil; it's a common misconception. There's no reference to the devil being called or described as a lucifer. Lucifer is a Latin word meaning "bringer of light." Want to know who was described as lucifer? Jesus in Revelation 22:16. We have a saint who's St. Lucifer of Cagliari from AD 300. The Vatican had a telescope named LUCIFER. Don't fall for this meme.

>not accepting the truth of it but realizing its actually a cause to be in a state of constant anguish

Now who's the brainlet?

still you my man

well the story goes that Satan or Belzebuub or the Devil or whatever you want to call him was refered to as "Lucifier" before he fell (when he was still an angel)

Remember: "The beautiful ones always smash the picture, - always, everytime."

My delicious D. and . . .; "you make me sooooo confused, the beautiful ones, you always seem to lose", - for the other lady that laid, and attempted AN S.A.T. in between my devil girl,

and Prometheus or whateva culture is getting absorbed by the AUTISTIC word.

-------------

Suck me ugly; you Babylonian, Roman, and American Pies.

I'm saying it's nowhere in the Bible, so there's no basis in thinking that Lucifer's ever the devil's name.

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.

get thee hence

This.

>religion
>asking a lot of questions and expecting an actual answer

christian devil/satan/lucifer = personification of human desire, impulses

all the lowly things of humans that "lead us astray" from salvation

power, lust, doubt, wavering faith, envy, spite, sin itself, etc etc

>having self-esteem
>following a religion
you see the issue here dont you?

>God is all powerful and all knowing, which means he intentionally created Satan knowing what kind of shit the nigger would do, as part of his plan. God already knows what you're gonna do before you do it, and because he is infinitely powerful, he is directly responsible for your actions through neglect.

God created free will because there is no pleasure in forced worship. The purpose of the universe is to entertain God. Just because God foresees every choice that you will make does NOT mean that he forced you to make that choice.

>He set you up to fail and he created a demon to fucking consume your soul whenever you do.

Lucifer also had free will. God had always known that Lucifer would sin but god did not make Lucifer sin. God does not treat beings according to what he knows they will do in the future. Before Lucifer had fallen he was God's most treasured and respected servant.

You should read Paradise Lost and look into the concept of "the fortunate fall". Because man fell he now has the opportunity to reach an even higher, more perfect state of happiness.

Lucifer is a placeholder. His true name is lost, deleted by God.